The Amazon Thread (or, for Duke, the I Love Bezos Thread)

[Barty]

CA only started collecting taxes on Amazon purchases recently. Maybe the last year or two (or three?). It was a big issue for awhile. AMZN pulled its Associates Program for awhile over it.

While they've always had a presence in CA, they used loopholes to get around CA tax law. This is one of the many reasons Amazon is a sleazy company.

Actually, standing against theft from your customers is a very awesome thing to do, and one reason I love Amazon.

[Irish]

If tax loopholes makes one a sleazy company, then there isn't any non-sleazy company in the world.

It's one thing to use regional tax incentives to your advantage (like when film and TV companies started shooting everything in Vancouver in the 1990s, or, more recently, Louisiana).

It's another to avoid tax laws by moving part of your operations overseas (which is what Apple, Microsoft, and every other tech giant did a long time ago, to places like Ireland and Taiwan).

It's another to cleverly game the system. Amazon was notorious for building warehouses just across state lines to avoid tax implications for their customers (as they initially did with CA. All their warehouses were located just across the border in Nevada).

It's another to keep the letter of the law and totally violate the spirit. Amazon has had a physical presence in CA since the early 2000s, because two of their wholly-owned subsidiaries were located there (one of them right across the street from Apple).

These companies, Lab126 and A9, were staffed by Amazon employees but had different names, branding and management structures. Both of them produced tech (Lab126, the Kindle; A9, search and advertising) that was leased by Amazon for ridiculously low fees (rumored to be $1).

The only reason Amazon structured itself this way was to avoid collecting CA sales taxes. That, to my mind, is sleazy. They get all the advantages of setting up shop in CA (access to the Silly Valley employment pool, for one) and avoid some big detriments.

Not only does this screw CA out of tax revenue, but it gave Amazon a huge advantage in the marketplace. Their core retail business was all low margin, and some big ticket (books, TVs, stereos, computers, etc).

[Barty]

Not only does this screw CA out of tax revenue

Again, this makes Amazon worthy of praise and a medal, not condemnation. I for one enjoy keeping my hard earned money from government thugs.

[Acapelli]

irish, there's no point

[Irish]

irish, there's no point

I know.

I still feel the need to try & spread the word about what an awful company AMZN is. They're like the Walmart of culture.

[Dukefrukem]

7inch Kindle Fire HDX Drops to $184 in One-Day Sale

[Dukefrukem]

Amazon just contacted me for a job interview in Seattle.

[dreamdead]

Amazon just contacted me for a job interview in Seattle.

Woah. Hope it works out for you, Duke!

[Dukefrukem]

Woah. Hope it works out for you, Duke!

I guess they're coming to Boston in January and want me to interview when they are here, and then fly back for more interviews. Not sure I want to accept the interview offer, but I guess I have to right? I mean, there's 3 American companies you can't say no to... Apple, Google and Amazon.

[Ezee E]

I guess they're coming to Boston in January and want me to interview when they are here, and then fly back for more interviews. Not sure I want to accept the interview offer, but I guess I have to right? I mean, there's 3 American companies you can't say no to... Apple, Google and Amazon.

Well, depends on the job of course! I hear Amazon is a tremendous company though.

[Irish]

Congrats, Duke

[number8]

This is ridiculous, but a better idea to cut shipping time than the drone.

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/01/...re-you-buy-it/

[D_Davis]

The spec/abstract of that patent doesn't say what the article says it says, at least what I've read so far.

It's about shipping without a complete address, and then adding the complete address while in transit. It's not anticipating what will be ordered, but anticipating where the order will be sent.

Figures 1, 7 and 8 demonstrate that, as does the Patent Abstract.

That's how it speed up shipping, not by shipping you what you want before you buy it, but by shipping what you ordered to you even if you move, are unsure of the address (for a business trip as example), or if you forget to include something like a zip code, etc.

I don't have time right now to read the whole specification, but I'm pretty sure that's all it covers.

Further reading...

OK - for anticipating orders, the spec says that it can look at historic data for a region and then bulk ship stuff that matches that data to that geographic region before it is ordered, so that when it is ordered it will be closer to the people who will order it, and thus shipping will be faster. For instance, it can pre-ship farm-related items to warehouses/fulfillment centers in geographic areas in which there are more farms.

Or an even better example - sports merchandise. Makes sense to pre-send and keep Seahawks crap near Seattle, so all the fake-ass fans can buy said gear and wear it to pretend they like sports.

Another use for the patent is in anticipating where things will go, and then utilizing the best shipping methods for those things, and then combining packages once they reach the geographical location of the person who ordered. For instance, books and electronics ship diffrently, and it doesn't make sense to send a package of books in the same way as you would a fragile computer system. Figure one shows a mix and match shipping system that can be used to deliver things more quickly to the end location.

Still haven't come across anything that says they will ship things to you before you buy them, though.

It could be there though, I'll keep reading when I have more time.

[D_Davis]

I wouldn't be surprised if this patent family (the patent in question is the second divisional of a patent first filed in 2004) is what has helped bring us Amazon Prime 2-day shipping, and same-day delivery of certain items in certain regions.

[D_Davis]

Another use for the patent:

Items A and B are commonly purchased and shipped together. You order item A, but not item B. Amazon ships both anticipating that you will add item B, shipping item B to a warehouse. If you do, then they can combine the items together before they arrive at your place, or just have the final destination of item B be your house rather than the warehouse. So in this instance they can change the delivery address while the items are in transit, something that is very difficult to do (just ask FedEx and UPS to do that....).

[Dukefrukem]

DD is all of sudden an expert in patent law.

[D_Davis]

DD is all of sudden an expert in patent law.

It's my job and Amazon is my client.

That said, I am by no means an expert! I'm just a paper push and fill out forms, really.

I'm still reading the spec to find out more, but damn...these things are so hard to read sometimes.

The patent/copyright system is messed up, but not in the ways that a lot of people on the internet like to think it is. A lot of times, people on Slashdot and other tech blogs just read the title of a patent and think that they know what its all about.

[Dukefrukem]

I'll be honest, I didn't know what you did for a living. I thought it was music related.

[D_Davis]

My overall impression of this patent is that it is about using different methods of shipping and anticipating the grouping/ordering of certain items to certain geographic locations to make shipping items more efficient, cheaper, and faster for the customer who is ordering or returning an item, or who might order or return an item.

Amazon has a lot of data on its customers, and uses to make things better for both parties.

From what I can tell, it's not about anticipating things that you might buy in the future and sending them to you before you purchase them, although that's not a bad idea. For instance, they could go ahead and send me a copy of every sing new Lansdale and Cisco book when they become available without me having to pre-order and order. I'd be totally OK with that.

However, I could be misreading some stuff, and still haven't finished reading the whole spec. These things put me to sleep.

Amazon's shipping and receiving technology is mind-blowingly complex and efficient; they're local delivery blows the postal service and all major common carriers away. They could completely revolutionize the postal industry if they licensed their tech to the government. They have the technology and knowledge to do some amazing things. For instance, they are able to predict down to a minute level of error exactly how many mistakes will be made with items on each pallet of boxes that are sent out by looking at the data of previous shipments packaged by certain employees and shipped by certain common carriers. They can look at a pallet and predict that there will 5 wrongly packaged items and be correct most of the time. They can then anticipate a return, and have the proper items waiting to be sent out for quick turn around.

[D_Davis]

I'll be honest, I didn't know what you did for a living. I thought it was music related.

Nope. I'm a firm believer in keeping my passions and my career as separate as possible.

[Raiders]

From what I can tell, it's not about anticipating things that you might buy in the future and sending them to you before you purchase them, although that's not a bad idea. For instance, they could go ahead and send me a copy of every sing new Lansdale and Cisco book when they become available without me having to pre-order and order. I'd be totally OK with that.

Yeah, the article made it sound a little more intuitive, but it just means being stocked at the closest warehouse in advance for what it assumes customers in that area will want so that the shipping time is much less on average. It isn't intended, as of now anyway, to be person-specific.

I do wonder how feasible it is to create a service that can be signed up for to send lower priced bulk-type items (like books, DVDs, even video games) to people before they order, based on Amazon's data and historical purchases and so forth, and asking them to either log on and agree to pay or send the item back with an included pre-paid shipping voucher within 7 days, otherwise Amazon would automatically deduct the payment. I would also assume it caps it to one or two items per week.

Doesn't seem that difficult of a concept really, but I imagine the headache of all that tracking and the disputes it would create would be a lot to overcome. Not to mention I am not sure of the overall benefit to the end-user or how many would really sign up (and it must be an opt-in feature).

[D_Davis]

I would opt in for something like an Amazon Book Club that would send me a book a month based on my past purchases and ratings. For one thing, Amazon's returns process is so good that it would be practically hassle free, and their RIYL suggestions are great - I'm always discovering new stuff based on what they rec to me.

[D_Davis]

Yeah, the article made it sound a little more intuitive....

Yeah - it's a big problem for Amazon and their patents. There is a huge anti-Amazon patent contingency on the web (blogs like Slashdot spearheaded the movement years ago), and these people often write these doomsday articles about how terrible the patent system is and about how evil Amazon is without really knowing anything about the patents, what they are going to be used for, and the patent system at all.

Yes, there are huge problems with the patent system, and with some of Amazon's patents, but it's never as bad as Reddit would have one believe, and even when it is bad it's bad for completely different reasons.

[EyesWideOpen]

Amazon Prime is going up to $99. I just got an email from them for when mine renews in April. Still a good value for me considering I have 5+ packages delivered every month and I also use Amazon Instant Video quite a bit.

[number8]

Yeah, they're getting more exclusive content these days and it's still only 25 cents more than Netflix every month. It is worth it. I just wish the Amazon Video interface is a lot better.