Prometheus (Ridley Scott, 2012)

[Skitch]

I nearly hated Alien 3 first time I saw it. Once I got passed my need for typical sequel-itis, (I also grew as a movie viewer by the time I revisited it), I realized it was incredibly balls in its plot. After disovering Fincher's struggle in making it and the studio's intrusion and original ideas for it, it went up a few more notches. Then I saw the extended/producers/whatever cut.

I love Alien 3, and I would love to hear Fincher discuss it, but I understand why he never will.

[megladon8]

I would love to see Fincher return to the series.

You know who I think would make a great Alien movie? Frank Darabont.

[Ezee E]

Yeesh, I like Alien 3. A lot even. But it doesn't even compare to Aliens to me, one of the best action movies period. It utilizes settings to its advantage, varies different setpieces to a horror level, and makes all of its supporting characters interesting too. Alien 3 fails there, only really picking up when they are trying to lead the Xenomorph into the pit, which is a fascinating scene though.

Darabont would be a great pick, I just wonder what they could do to separate it from being a repeat of the first movie. That's why Prometheus sounds interesting.

[megladon8]

Eh, I don't think any of the subcharacters in Aliens are interesting. They're all just stock soldiers. Ripley is great as usual and her relationship with Newt was good, but the "characters" are only interesting because they are played charismatically by a good set of actors. Which certainly counts for something, but I don't see it as "interesting" in terms of "they have depth of character".

Also, something that's always kind of bothered me about Aliens is the pacing. Have you ever noticed that nothing really happens until almost 1 1/2 hours in?

Again, I love it, it's a great movie...but I cannot see it as the flawless action spectacle many do (and even I used to).

Similar to Terminator 2, it was a great movie that, as a result of its legendary status, was copied so much that even the original product now feels cliché and old hat.

[KK2.0]

Alien 3 is the one i remember the least, maybe it's time for a revisit.


i'm also glad Scott is involved in an ambitious ORIGINAL sci-fi project, rather than a prequel. Is Giger's collaboration confirmed?

[Ezee E]

Nothing happens in the first hour because it's all set up. The marines are set up as these unbeatable badasses, the weapons are shown, we get an idea of the power struggle, and then they go into the tunnel, and all bets are off. Absolutely love that it takes a while. No movies ever try that. I think that's why I like all the characters so much.

[Grouchy]

Yes, I'd say the time it takes for the action to start in Aliens is one of its greatest strenghts. It's all build-up.

Also, meg, I saw Terminator 2 recently and I think that movie is simply ageless.

[megladon8]

I still don't see what characters you're talking about.

Everyone is just a stock-cut soldier. They take us from scene to scene. There's nothing to them at all.

[Ezee E]

Stock-cut soldiers that realize that they aren't the badasses they thought they were. I'm not hoping for a deep story here, because that'd be silly in this situation.

[Morris Schæffer]

I actually feel the exact opposite.

Aliens I still love for the effects and incredible creatures, but the pacing is all over the place, and it's a case of so many movies, games and books since it ripping off its overall concept that they have kind of ruined it for me. Even though it was the "first", it feels cliche now.

I think it has one pace and that falls under the category "bloody fucking murderous."

[Morris Schæffer]

Eh, I don't think any of the subcharacters in Aliens are interesting. They're all just stock soldiers. Ripley is great as usual and her relationship with Newt was good, but the "characters" are only interesting because they are played charismatically by a good set of actors. Which certainly counts for something, but I don't see it as "interesting" in terms of "they have depth of character".

I guess I agree with these soldiers not being particularly interesting, but what really nullifies that is the remarkable 360 degree turn the movie makes when they enter the hive. The cockiness that permeates their behavior early on, and that might have persisted in a lesser movie (Ie: Doom) is completely gone, replaced by sheer terror. I guess perhaps that is Cameron's strength as a director as well as the FX crew. So what Ezee E and grouchy said!

Similar to Terminator 2, it was a great movie that, as a result of its legendary status, was copied so much that even the original product now feels cliché and old hat.

Oft imitated, never bettered. Its brilliance stands proud, untarnished by the shit that came after it.

[Wryan]

Yeah Giger's a weird motherfucker, but...



Jesusgod!

I would not like to meet that one down a dark alley...mostly because the alley would probably turn into a giant vagina and swallow me. Yes, swallow.

[transmogrifier]

Alien 3 is very good (it has the most melancholic atmosphere of any of the films, a neat allegory that can be read into it, and an excellent ending) but Aliens kicks its arse in every way. Tonnes of stuff happens in the first half - it is all set up for a kick-ass second half. Brilliant film, Cameron's best by a country mile.

[D_Davis]

Yeah I think Aliens is one of the most perfectly paced action films of all time. Simply love the slow burn; the build up and tension are nearly suffocating, and the release once the marines stumble upon that first nest is one of cinema's most perfect moments.

It's a masterclass example of a film with great dynamic range - every moment of bombast is balanced by something small and quiet. We don't need everything cranked up to 11 like things are now. Aliens is not brickwalled; there is room for every single facet of the film to breath, and that it takes its time is one of its greatest strengths.

[transmogrifier]

And it seems weird to criticize Aliens for that when the Alien is even more blatant in its slow burn start. Seriously, in the original, it takes like 45 minutes or so for them to even get the facehugger out. And the film is all the better for it.

[megladon8]

I also never really saw what was great about the action in Aliens until the Queen comes in.

Most of the action consists of:

Marine poses and yells while shooting their gun wildly.

Xenomorphs on the walls get closer, occasionally one or two getting riddled with bullets.

Marine poses again, shooting wildly in the other direction.

Xenomorphs crawl on the walls and occasionally fall from being hit with bullets.

Repeat.


It's amazing that what is quite possibly the most tense scene in the movie just shows a bunch of dots on the radar getting closer and closer.


Again - I do really love Aliens, I just never saw it as being even close to superior to the first one, nor is it one I consider "brilliant" beyond the execution of its effects work.

[D_Davis]

The brilliance in Aliens' action comes in how the film utilizes the space of the setting, and in how the characters act and react to that setting and the predicament they find themselves in.

For all of its fantastic conceits, the action is very much grounded in reality, and the execution of the action direction completely takes into account the setting of the film's narrative and the pathos of the characters.

It's a perfect marriage of form and function; it's a study of physical space, action and reaction.

[Ezee E]

You could say that for any action scene meg. That's just silly.

The claustrophobic feel, and complete change from organization to confusion/fear/orders being disobeyed is fascinating to watch. For once, an action scene where it makes sense that you can't really see anything with everything going on.

[megladon8]

You could say that for any action scene meg. That's just silly.

Whaat? No you can't. That is silly.

The claustrophobic feel, and complete change from organization to confusion/fear/orders being disobeyed is fascinating to watch. For once, an action scene where it makes sense that you can't really see anything with everything going on.

Yeah, I feel like my complaints here are making me sound like I don't like the movie despite the fact that I do, in fact, really love it.

I'm just surrounded by friends who insist that it's the ultimate Alien movie, and for me, that prize just cannot go to anything other than the first one.

The first is absolutely masterful filmmaking on every level. Aliens is a fantastic sci-fi action movie that pretty much defined what sci-fi action would be even to this day, but I can't give it the 10+++++ that the original has in my books.

It's great. Just not that great.

[Morris Schæffer]

Are the characters in the first Alien deep? Or do we equate them with "deep" simply because, as engineers, they talk differently than space marines? I always thought Ash was the most interesting character although I've enjoyed the presence of all the others.

[Ezee E]

Whaat? No you can't. That is silly.

I'm not sure what action movie doesn't feature crazy guys running around and shooting guns. Villains attack back, some get shot, crazy guys continue running around.

[Dukefrukem]

Here's how it should be;

Alien 95
Aliens 95.5
Alien 3 69
AR 40s

[Scar]

Cookie Cutter soldiers. In Aliens?!

Apone?
Vasquez?
Hicks?
Hudson?

[megladon8]

Hell yeah they're cookie cutter.

The wise-ass (Hudson). The noble leader (Hicks). The butch woman (Vasquez).


And hell yes the characters in Alien have more dimension to them. They at least feel more human than Aliens' BAD ASS MILITARY MUTHAFUCKAS! HOO-RAH!

[Scar]

Hell yeah they're cookie cutter.

The wise-ass (Hudson). The noble leader (Hicks). The butch woman (Vasquez).


And hell yes the characters in Alien have more dimension to them. They at least feel more human than Aliens' BAD ASS MILITARY MUTHAFUCKAS! HOO-RAH!

How much contact have you had with military personnel?

And I find your critique of the action scenes in Aliens to be horrendous.

Marine 'poses' with weapon? Marine fires wildly? No.