The Marvel/Sony Superhero Movies Thread

[Irish]

It read to me like he was trawling for a job, similar to the way Chappie and Weaver never fail to mention That Other Alien Movie whenever they appear in public.

[Ezee E]

Whedon needs Marvel more than Marvel needs Whedon, right?

[Neclord]

I'm sure that were a Black Widow movie produced it would definitely be a cold, steely and brainy John LeCarre anti-thriller.

[transmogrifier]

I'm sure that were a Black Widow movie produced it would definitely be a cold, steely and brainy John LeCarre anti-thriller.

And would make no money.

[Ezee E]

Throw her in space and have her heist something from some spaceship. There.

[Dukefrukem]

[number8]

Zendaya cast as Mary Jane. Keeping it in the family.

[Dukefrukem]

Zendaya cast as Mary Jane. Keeping it in the family.

She's not.... a... red head.

[Peng]

Neither is Dunst.

[number8]

I think duke's making a joke about Zendaya being black.

[number8]

Marvel should really just pay James Gunn as a PR liaison at this point. The dude keeps commenting on their news stories.

People get upset when something they consider intrinsic to a comic book character changes when adapted for a film. I get this. There are movies I dislike because I think there's a basic misunderstanding of the story or the character when the comic is transferred to film (I still hate how in the first Batman movie the Joker was revealed as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, for instance.)

That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin. When Michael B Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm I didn't understand the uproar. The primary characteristic of Johnny was not, to me, that he was white, or that he had blonde hair, but that he was a fiery, funny, big-mouthed braggart of a hero. I was happy that he was going to be played by one of the finest and most charming young actors out there.

Yesterday, a rumor broke out that the character of Mary Jane was being played by a young black woman, Zendaya, and all hell broke out on the Internet (again). I tweeted that if people find themselves complaining about Mary Jane's ethnicity they have lives that are too good. (For those of you who think this means I'm confirming that Zendaya IS playing MJ, realize that although I've read the Spidey script, and I've met the actress in question, I have no idea what her role is. There's a good chance someone told me at one time or another, but, if so, I can't remember. I'm going to find out when I go into Marvel this afternoon, but I feel free to speak until that time because it's about the concept about a black woman playing Mary Jane, not the actuality or hypothesis of it.)

I got a thousand or so responses to my tweet. Most of them were positive. Some folks disagreed - they thought the character should look like what she looks like in the comics - but were thoughtful. And a handful were flat out racist.

I can't respond to the racists - I'm not ever going to change their minds. But for the thoughtful majority of you out there:

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

Whatever the case, if we're going to continue to make movies based on the almost all white heroes and supporting characters from the comics of the last century, we're going to have to get used to them being more reflective of our diverse present world. Perhaps we can be open to the idea that, although someone may not initially match how we personally conceive a character, we can be - and often are - happily surprised.

[Skitch]

Is there seriously going to be an uproar about her being black? You have to be kidding me. Such an inconsequential change to a character whos major role to anchor Peter. Im not a historian on her character so correct me if way off base here, but her arc has generally consisted of being save bait, strugglig at an acting career, and? In general changing a characters ethnicity doesnt matter much except to retcon origin a bit a worst (Invisible Girl adopted, who cares?), so to change MJs seems completely inconsequential to her characters history.

Dammit I'm not even a Spidey fan and this pisses off that it pisses anyone off.

[Ezee E]

She can still have red hair.

[Irish]

Is there seriously going to be an uproar about her being black? You have to be kidding me. Such an inconsequential change to a character whos major role to anchor Peter.

There's blowback because there always is, but I'm not sure how much of it is meaningful. A lot of crap bloggers see a bunch of comments on social media, interpret that as a major trend, and then shit out 800 word thinkpieces about terrible fan culture. (Here's Matt Singer, quoting anonymous comments from unknown sources, like any of that is meaningful).

I haven't seen anyone close to reputable argue against casting a black actress in the role (although I haven't followed the comics side very closely). I have seen a ton of people (mostly film critics) virtue signaling how absolutely outraged they are over the "uproar."*

There's several different ways to approach this news (which is actually still unconfirmed by the studio). I'm starting to roll my eyes all the way around, because every reaction feels like a kneejerk reaction and large parts of this seem cynically motivated.

Edited to add: *Not talking about you or anyone here, in case that's not clear. Mostly referencing reactions to reactions that I saw on twitter. There's a lot of finger wagging over anon posts, when nobody really knows who's behind that shit or how much of it there really is.

[Skitch]

A lot of crap bloggers see a bunch of comments on social media, interpret that as a major trend, and then shit out 800 word thinkpieces about terrible fan culture.

I firmly believe this will be the death of the internets relevence. We must combine our powers to stop it now.

Im going to preempt this next statement by saying this is going to be the whitest statement ever, but...I dont know this actress. Only going by the pics that have been attached to articles on this story, I wouldn't even have guessed she has black heritage. Totally not judging negatively here, but whatever this real or imagined backlash is makes me wish her skin was blacker than Sam Jackson because fuck these dumb asses.

[Peng]

Maybe give them the benefit of the doubt that they have seen or experienced these blowbacks? Especially since they have huge base of followers that will talk to them about this (especially Matt Singer, one of the good ones, who has always been a vocal big comic book fan), whereas most of us will avoid being near to hear something like that. Incidentally, another movie board I frequent, in which there are a lot of more people (too exhausting so I just mostly lurk), in its Marvel thread there's a heated but mostly courteous (I think, haven't checked it in the last 24 hours yet) discussion about this news. Nothing bad yet, but it's heated enough that it skirts into uncomfortable for me a little bit, especially about "sticking to the comics".

[Irish]

I firmly believe this will be the death of the internets relevence. We must combine our powers to stop it now.

What, like some sort of forum-based Voltron?

Im going to preempt this next statement by saying this is going to be the whitest statement ever, but...I dont know this actress.

I had to Google her too. She's a Disney kid. Her only experience is on one of their live action sitcoms, and a few episodes of similar shows. She's also a musician with a bunch of YouTube videos. There isn't much reason why anybody would know her.

[Skitch]

I get what you're saying Irish. I do. I'm neither hailing her casting as a triumph or lamenting staying with characters origin. I simply do not care. And I agree, both arguments exhaust me.

I just googled imaged this young lady, and it looks like a MJ portfolio for an audition. People are insane.

[Irish]

I get what you're saying Irish. I do. I'm neither hailing her casting as a triumph or lamenting staying with characters origin. I simply do not care. And I agree, both arguments exhaust me.

Oh no! Don't get me wrong -- I had the same reaction as you did. "Wait, who's Zeydana? WTF? People are upset about this? Christ, who cares!"

But then, I don't have a dog in the fight either. Spider-man isn't so close to my heart.

(The twitterati / critical conversation, that outrage around the outrage, drives me up a wall, though.)

I just googled imaged this young lady, and it looks like a MJ portfolio for an audition. People are insane.

Agreed. She's young, thin, and pretty, which seem the requisite attributes for a starlet in a blockbuster.

[Peng]

I am really baffled reading your post, because the tone you're criticizing other people of being this and that just...comes out of that post fully.

[Grouchy]

Imagine the internet outrage when Eartha Kitt replaced Julie Newmar as Catwoman.

[Dukefrukem]

I almost feel like they (Disney) are reaching for redemption for not doing a Michael Morales character.

[number8]

His name is Miles and I don't think that's what's happening here specifically since every other actor in this is a person of color. They already cast Zero from Grand Budapest as Flash Thompson, which for some reason didn't get as much backlash. I think there is a concerted effort though to make Peter Parker and Aunt May seemingly the only white people in the movie.

[Ivan Drago]

I hope Hannibal Buress is playing Scorpion.

[Skitch]

I hope Hannibal Buress is playing Scorpion.

Titus Andromedon for Mysterio.