Chrisnu Reads the Bible

[chrisnu]

I'm not sure how many of you folks have read through the Gospels in the Bible and have been perplexed by this, but I'd be interested in what you think about this tidbit I put together:

What's Up With Mark 16?

[chrisnu]

Rape, Genocide, Prostitution and Incest in Genesis - Part I

Rape, Genocide, Prostitution and Incest in Genesis - Part II

[chrisnu]

If You Really Love Me, Cain, Nod Your Head...

[chrisnu]

Triumphal Entry: 1 Animal != 2 Animals

[chrisnu]

The Field of Blood (Part I)

The Field of Blood (Part II)

[Sycophant]

Chrisnu, I had come to be convinced you look like Billy-Bob Thornton. I'm very interested in these. Will check out later. Hope to respond with some kind of response that'll avoid the standard pitfalls of Match Cut Religious Discussion.

[Mysterious Dude]

It's been so long since I actually believed in Christianity, it might as well be Voodoo now.

[chrisnu]

Regarding the Nephilim, and Biblical Retconning

[chrisnu]

As promised:

Balaam

[Mara]

As promised:

Balaam

Very intriguing.

The story of Balaam has always interested me for multiple reasons. Mostly because it's clear we're not getting the full story. Given that he is respected by Balak, and that his name begins with a B and has the double As in it, Balaam is almost assuredly from the people who worshipped Ba'al and not Elohim. There is no evidence that Balaam is an Israelite or a Levite (which would give him the authority to offer sacrifices.)

So, if Balaam has no authority, why is God speaking to him at all? Why the divine manifestations and angels?

Obviously, the story was written down as a faith-promoting anecdote for the Israelites, because it proves that a man cannot curse God's chosen people, even if he tries. So, one would assume that Balaam is a sort of hero figure, since he blesses Israel thrice.

But later mentions of Balaam are not complimentary.

We are informed of Balaam's death in Numbers 31:8 when the Israelites go after the Midianites:

And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

So, they killed all the men. But Moses specifically wants them to kill the women, too:

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

So there's this whole story that we're missing. At some point, Balaam apparently counseled the women of Midian to tempt the men into sin (presumably sexual sin) which caused a plague among the Israelites.

This story, which we are never told directly, is cited several more times.

Peter has an interesting view of the donkey story in 2:14-15:

...cursed children:

15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

Jude cites Balaam's sin as being priestcraft (of prophesying for money) in Jude 1:11:

Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, cand perished in the gainsaying of Core.

In Revelations, John talks about the plague story again, so one may assume it still existed in some form in New Testament times, even though it doesn't anymore. He provides a couple more details: (Rev. 2:14)

But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

So many questions.

[chrisnu]

Mosaic Vows, and Jephthah

[chrisnu]

Moses: an Unreliable Witness

I wonder if this persists with Moses' continued retelling of events in Deuteronomy.

I also first noticed what may be an anachronism which I didn't pick up before in Deuteronomy 8:9 - the mention of iron. I just took the mention of it for granted. It turns out that the first mention of iron is in Genesis 4:22, which mentions Tubal-cain working with iron. Tubal-cain is three generations removed from Adam, and the most popular date I've seen for his existence is around 4000 BCE. I'm going to have to research dates for the discovery of iron, but that doesn't sound right.

[chrisnu]

Yahweh: One Among Many Elohim?

[Mara]

[Mara]

Regarding the Nephilim, and Biblical Retconning

I use the KJV of the Bible almost exclusively, and it doesn't appear to use the word "Nephilim," but instead simply defines the word as "giant." So, for fun, I looked up in the LDS study helps what they said about giants.

Unusually large, tall persons, apparently having great physical strength. They are mentioned both before the flood (Gen. 6: 4; Moses 8: 18) and after (Num. 13: 33; Deut. 2: 10-12, 20; Deut. 3: 11-13; Deut. 9: 2; Josh. 15: 8; Josh. 18: 16). Raphah of Gath was said to be the father of several giants of whom Goliath was one (1 Sam. 17: 4-7; 2 Sam. 21: 16-22; 1 Chr. 20: 6). A 12-fingered, 12-toed giant is also mentioned as one of the sons. The giants in Palestine were also known as Ankims, Emins, and Zamzummins.

There's no discussion of how these giants existed both before and after the flood, or if the word was simply a generic one used to describe very tall persons who may or may not be descended from the same genetic line. Interesting.

By the by, in the tv show Torchwood they have a little memory-erasing pill they slip to people whenever it's convenient to the plot. They call the drug "retcon." Har har har.

[chrisnu]

I use the KJV of the Bible almost exclusively, and it doesn't appear to use the word "Nephilim," but instead simply defines the word as "giant." So, for fun, I looked up in the LDS study helps what they said about giants.

There's no discussion of how these giants existed both before and after the flood, or if the word was simply a generic one used to describe very tall persons who may or may not be descended from the same genetic line. Interesting.

That's true. I think that the KJV translated the Hebrew word nephilim as giants because they already read ahead into Numbers and Deuteronomy, as I did, and realized to whom the word was referring. Other translations followed in kind, while others leave the word untranslated. Some folks have tried to say that Genesis 6:4 is referring to the commingling of the descendents of Seth and Cain, but I think that's extrapolation which is not followed by the evidence.

[chrisnu]

The only first-hand account of Midianite women enticing the Israelites is in Numbers 25. This confused me because the passage first talks about Israelite men having sex with Moabite women, but that abruptly changes to a Midianite woman in verse 6, and the chapter ends with God commanded the Israelites to exterminate the Midianites.