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Thread: Twin Peaks

  1. #1
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Twin Peaks

    Watching through the series with Ms. Iosos here. It's pretty fabulous. I'd seen the first season already, and I'm definitely wondering, after watching 2.1 last night, how things are gonna pan out.

    I have reached a realization that when it all comes down to the wire, I'm actually quite uninterested in the intrigue of the plot. All that backstabbing, sleeping around, sleuthing, unethical business practicing, whoring, dope-pushing, in-league-with-criminals stuff. I don't really care how the story ends. It's all (intentional) overwrought tawdry melodrama--liken it to the soap opera that the characters watch, Invitation to Love. What IS fascinating is the psychology of the show. Not the what, but the how and why. The surreal moments, wild character motivations and actions, and frequently interesting direction, not to mention the lovely soundtrack, are what elevate this unremarkable narrative into genius-territory. Federal Bureau of Investigation Special Agent Dale Cooper is one of the most darling and interesting characters I've ever seen.

    And Ray Wise is so great as Leland.

    Anyway, I think that episode 2.1 is one of Lynch's finest creations, kind of tucked away in there, but keep an eye out for it. It has so many dazzling scenes (Bobby and his dad at the diner, Bobby and Shelley in the hospital, Cooper and his Giant, Andy getting hit in the head with a board, Donna's transformation into femme fatale, Madeleine's vision in the carpet, Leland singing that "Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy" while the Horne brothers shuffle... so many more!) and its ambience - its weirdness - is classic Lynch, which is never less than entertaining when transplanted in Small Townsville.

    Pick up the box set at your local retailer today!

  2. #2
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting iosos (view post)
    Bobby and his dad at the diner
    This is, without a doubt, my favorite moment of the series, and probably my favorite moment of any television show, ever. I love this scene.

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    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Daniel Davis (view post)
    This is, without a doubt, my favorite moment of the series, and probably my favorite moment of any television show, ever. I love this scene.
    [
    ]

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    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting iosos (view post)
    Watching through the series with Ms. Iosos here. It's pretty fabulous. I'd seen the first season already, and I'm definitely wondering, after watching 2.1 last night, how things are gonna pan out.
    It kind of goes downhill around the middle of the second season. But still ... Heather Graham ... The final episode finally finds a way to inject new life into the series, but alas, it was too late to save the show.
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    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    It kind of goes downhill around the middle of the second season. But still ... Heather Graham ... The final episode finally finds a way to inject new life into the series, but alas, it was too late to save the show.
    Once they bring on Cooper's nemesis, Windham Earl, it really picks up. The final 7 episodes are pretty damn amazing.

    I will always wish, though, that the white and black lodges, and the UFO stuff was touched upon more. Major Briggs' story arc is way too cool to leave it unfinished.

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    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    It kind of goes downhill around the middle of the second season. But still ... Heather Graham ... The final episode finally finds a way to inject new life into the series, but alas, it was too late to save the show.
    Yeah, so I've heard. From what I understand, Lynch didn't even really want the show to go on as long as it did, and he wanted to leave it very open and unresolved.

    Quote Quoting Daniel Davis (view post)
    I will always wish, though, that the white and black lodges, and the UFO stuff was touched upon more. Major Briggs' story arc is way too cool to leave it unfinished.

  7. #7
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting iosos (view post)
    Yeah, so I've heard. From what I understand, Lynch didn't even really want the show to go on as long as it did, and he wanted to leave it very open and unresolved.
    It could have used another half season, like the first. Perhaps another 7 episodes to really finish things up.

  8. #8
    Good-bye, Match Cut
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    Aw, man. Netflix doesn't seem to have the first season or the gold box thingy. Guess I'm gonna have to save up a bit of money. I really need to watch this.

  9. #9
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    It's pretty incredible, the noticeable quality flux between episodes directed by Lynch and those not. Episode 2.2 is also quite incredible, Lynch-wise, and one I wouldn't hesitate to rank up there with the better part of his film work. The musical number by James, Donna, and Madeleine is great. This show rocks!

  10. #10
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    I wasn't blown away by the first season, but I did like certain aspects of it a lot. The pilot episode was my favorite. I need to see the second season eventually, if only so I can watch Fire Walk With Me.
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    I wasn't blown away by the first season, but I did like certain aspects of it a lot. The pilot episode was my favorite. I need to see the second season eventually, if only so I can watch Fire Walk With Me.
    I thought the season premiere of the 2nd Season was better than the pilot, in truth, though both are up there. So far, 3 episodes into season 2, I'd recommend it to you, because it's totally getting weirder and more fun.

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    Bark! Go away Russ's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    I wasn't blown away by the first season, but I did like certain aspects of it a lot. The pilot episode was my favorite. I need to see the second season eventually, if only so I can watch Fire Walk With Me.
    I'm betting you'd hate it. And it's not as good as the first season. But iosos is right, there are some parts that easily rival Season 1. The opening episode of Season 2 is really great, but there's a slight, gradual lull (some say) that leads up to the halfway point of the season, when Laura's killer is revealed (those episodes are some of the best of the entire show); afterwards, everything is either anticlimactic or silly or pointless, until the very last episode, which is as much pure concentrated Lynch as anything you've ever seen.

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    Quote Quoting iosos (view post)
    The musical number by James, Donna, and Madeleine is great.
    I wanted to kill myself after this. I assume that the polarizing reactions were intentional.
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    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting chrisnu (view post)
    I wanted to kill myself after this. I assume that the polarizing reactions were intentional.
    Wha-- why?! It's gorgeous!

    Anyhow, just finished episode 2.7. Lemme say again, and probably officially for the record, that David Lynch is a fantastic director. All of his episodes (including, maybe especially, 2.7) have been unique, startling, and evocative. They deserve serious consideration.

    However, I started to feel that much talked-about season 2 "drag" in episodes 4, 5, and 6. They felt more like Melrose Place than Twin Peaks.

    And now, there's absolutely no question about Ray Wise's contribution to the higher echelon's of acting notoriety with his wild yet credible and sincere and devastating performance as Leland. It's some of the best acting I've ever seen. Positively inspiring. His admission at the beginning of episode 2.4 [
    ] is jaw-dropping.

    Can't wait to see where this crrrrrrrrrazy show's gonna go next.

  15. #15
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    Good lord, this show is on a fast-track to becoming Melrose Place.

    Love, love, love, love, love all the stuff with Leland, the case of Laura, and Cooper and the miscellaneous FBI guys, and the weird Major Briggs stuff, and I admit a soft spot for Andy and Lucy's troubles... they're lovable.

    But everything else is rapidly disintegrating into blah. I[
    ] Totally, totally lame.

    I'm feeling kind of :evil: right now.

    Still, that last bit with Leland was pretty powerful stuff. [
    ]

  16. #16
    A Bonerfied Classic Derek's Avatar
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    I don't really understand the complaints about it becoming like Melrose Place. As Russ alluded to earlier, Lynch is intentionally using a lot of the soap opera cliches throughout the whole series, obviously referring to that with the cuts to Invitation to Love. If you think the show is even in the same universe as MP (which as far as I understand, was basically about who's sleeping with who), then I'm sorry but we're not watching the same show and I think you're deeply undervaluing its complexity.

    Now, if you wanna bitch about the Nadie reverting to high schooler sub-plot, I'm all ears.

  17. #17
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    I don't really understand the complaints about it becoming like Melrose Place. As Russ alluded to earlier, Lynch is intentionally using a lot of the soap opera cliches throughout the whole series, obviously referring to that with the cuts to Invitation to Love. If you think the show is even in the same universe as MP (which as far as I understand, was basically about who's sleeping with who), then I'm sorry but we're not watching the same show and I think you're deeply undervaluing its complexity.
    Actually, it was I who alluded to the Invitation to Love commentary. And sadly, that whole schtick has been dropped in season 2. Which is indicative of the show having become what it was once lampooning (to a point).

    The creators (for I will not say "Lynch" at this point, knowing about his only peripheral involvement in the majority of season 2) use the soap opera cliches, yes, and they use them beautifully all throughout the entire first season and roughly through the first three episodes of the second, but they have stopped doing anything with the cliches. Now, they're exercising them straight-facedly. All that stuff about the Mill and the Hong Kong intrigue and Hank's baddiness and the Horne implications and the insurance stuff with Leo, Bobby, and Shelley... none of that stuff is doing anything outside the realm of a crappy Invitation to Love-type soap. The first season, yes. But now, it's going about all routine-like.

    Of course the universe is not the same as Melrose Place... they had no serial killer doppelgangers or aliens or red rooms with backwards talking midgets. But none of these subplots are utilizing any of that dreamy influence or commenting in any way on the banality of soaps. If you can argue any substance into the subplots I mentioned, I'd totally like to hear it, because I'd love to love what's happening.

    For the record, I'm still interested in many things going on. The Windham Earl stuff, the Internal Affairs investigation against Cooper, the Andy/Lucy/Dick stuff, the Major Briggs stuff.

    Now, if you wanna bitch about the Nadine reverting to high schooler sub-plot, I'm all ears.
    No, because that's weird. And dealt with somewhat straightforwardly, which makes it even weirder in a way. Much more interesting than anything having to do with Catherine, Jocelyn, Ben, Hank, Shelley, Bobby, Donna, or James at this point.

  18. #18
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    Lynch is intentionally using a lot of the soap opera cliches throughout the whole series, obviously referring to that with the cuts to Invitation to Love.
    I've only seen the first season, but you know, was I the only person who didn't think this was terribly clever? Just because you constantly remind people that your show is a slightly heightened and absurdist take on soap operas doesn't suddenly make the cliches that much more appealing.
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  19. #19
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    I've only seen the first season, but you know, was I the only person who didn't think this was terribly clever? Just because you constantly remind people that your show is a slightly heightened and absurdist take on soap operas doesn't suddenly make the cliches that much more appealing.
    Well, I do think that the heightened melodrama and absurdity and silliness of the first season does alchemize the cliches into something more interesting than your average prime time soap. The first season had this ability to show you an action or emotion normally devoid of substantial human feeling per overexposure on television melodrama (ie, grief, fear, apprehension, abuse, murder) and inject it with a tangible feeling. I loved watching for the cliches, so I could see how they related it back to real human experience.

    The use of the show isn't "clever" in the way you suggest, because you imply that its use is limited to a gag. It is a gag, but it also is transformative. Showing us a lover shot in Invitation to Love is funny, but when the same instance happens in the show, its slightly more than just a narrative blip. And the mirroring there is what the show's all about.

  20. #20
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting iosos (view post)
    Well, I do think that the heightened melodrama and absurdity and silliness of the first season does alchemize the cliches into something more interesting than your average prime time soap. The first season had this ability to show you an action or emotion normally devoid of substantial human feeling per overexposure on television melodrama (ie, grief, fear, apprehension, abuse, murder) and inject it with a tangible feeling. I loved watching for the cliches, so I could see how they related it back to real human experience.

    The use of the show isn't "clever" in the way you suggest, because you imply that its use is limited to a gag. It is a gag, but it also is transformative. Showing us a lover shot in Invitation to Love is funny, but when the same instance happens in the show, its slightly more than just a narrative blip. And the mirroring there is what the show's all about.
    Ahh, well I don't watch average prime time soaps, so I don't have a frame of reference. In fact, my frame of reference is the best of modern television, which I understand is all an evolution of Twin Peaks' revolution. Nevertheless, most of Twin Peaks doesn't do much for me anymore when I could just watch the first season of Carnivale again.
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  21. #21
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    Ahh, well I don't watch average prime time soaps, so I don't have a frame of reference. In fact, my frame of reference is the best of modern television, which I understand is all an evolution of Twin Peaks' revolution. Nevertheless, most of Twin Peaks doesn't do much for me anymore when I could just watch the first season of Carnivale again.
    This seems to me an awfully limited way of engaging the show. I will not call your perception incorrect, however, I will say that it doesn't seem that you are attempting to view the show within the context of its own creation. But not only that, because sure it has something to say about television in the late 80s-early 90s, but it also appears that by likening it to Carnivale, you're looking at it solely for its "weird" factor (or maybe "fantastical"), when Twin Peaks is much much more than that.

    And while it's true that television may have gotten weirder (I have not seen Carnivale, but I'm curious), I'm unconvinced of the evolution in quality. What I've seen of Lost, Heroes, 24, Alias, Sex and the City, pretty much every sitcom ever, etc, demonstrates a relatively paltry understanding of human experience.

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    Scott of the Antarctic Milky Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting iosos (view post)
    And while it's true that television may have gotten weirder (I have not seen Carnivale, but I'm curious), I'm unconvinced of the evolution in quality. What I've seen of Lost, Heroes, 24, Alias, Sex and the City, pretty much every sitcom ever, etc, demonstrates a relatively paltry understanding of human experience.
    You're right about television in general, but Carnivale is more than just a progression of weird. It represents a brief moment in history when television strove to be something much more than what it has become since Twin Peaks went off the air. You should really give it a look, iosos.
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  23. #23
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting iosos (view post)
    This seems to me an awfully limited way of engaging the show. I will not call your perception incorrect, however, I will say that it doesn't seem that you are attempting to view the show within the context of its own creation. But not only that, because sure it has something to say about television in the late 80s-early 90s, but it also appears that by likening it to Carnivale, you're looking at it solely for its "weird" factor (or maybe "fantastical"), when Twin Peaks is much much more than that.
    I likened it to Carnivale because it is considered in direct lineage to Twin Peaks (which is misleading, but that's the common perception), but more importantly, I just like it more. This is an off-the-cuff dismissal of Twin Peaks, I know, especially since I'm not even dismissing it. I've just never been blown away by the show, which is a bit frustrating, given its reputation. Some of it is wonderful, but I'd say that about 75% of it just washes over me -- not bad, but not really inspiring either. After the phenomenal pilot episode, the rest of the first season was just... pretty good, with reasonably consistent peaks.
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  24. #24
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Milky Joe (view post)
    You're right about television in general, but Carnivale is more than just a progression of weird. It represents a brief moment in history when television strove to be something much more than what it has become since Twin Peaks went off the air. You should really give it a look, iosos.
    That show really was amazing. I suppose I should be grateful that two seasons even exist, but I wish desperately that it had been allowed its full six-season arc.
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  25. #25
    The Pan Qrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting chrisnu (view post)
    I wanted to kill myself after this. I assume that the polarizing reactions were intentional.
    I also wanted to kill myself at that point.

    I found the show in equal parts maddening and incredibly enjoyable. The entire Jose storyline was stupid as fuck. Coop is obviously amazing and makes the show. Some of Lynch's, or perhaps alternative director's, stylistic choices particularly involving Bob, were absolutely cringe-worthy.

    I knew the ending of the series would leave me hanging from the get go, call it Lynchian intuition, but it still irked me. I found the entire last episode of the series to be thematically sophomoric and unsatisfying. I don't need narrative wrap up, but I do need satisfying emotional/thematic wrap up... Eraserhead had it, as did Mulholland Drive. Twin Peaks did not.

    This post seems one sided but there were lots of other elements I enjoyed in the show.

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