Star Wars Saga Discussion

[Skitch]

Any company that wants to make anything based in the Star Wars universe?

[Lazlo]

Yeah, I can't imagine Disney doesn't own everything that's ever been produced under the LucasFilm banner, whether directly or through a licensing agreement. There's no way the Star Wars IP would be that spread out, especially given how shrewd Lucas has been at maintaining his rights.

I'll compare it to my job. I work on the media side of NASCAR. For example, ESPN can get the rights from NASCAR to shoot at the racetrack and use the footage per their agreement with the sanctioning body, but NASCAR ultimately owns the footage and maintains the rights to it in perpetuity.

The EU has to be the same way. A content producer/publisher contracts with LucasFilm to produce and distribute Star Wars material but at the end of the day LucasFilm owns everything they come up with and can use as they see fit in the future. That's just the way huge IPs work for the rights owner.

[Irish]

Right, but in your example, does that mean NASCAR could turn around and sell ESPN's footage to CBS the next day, or the next year? Somehow, I doubt it.

In the context of Lucas, what you guys are describing is more akin to a contractor/ work for hire relationship, not a license.

It would mean that Lucas could turn around and take popular elements from one property and sell them at will. Eg: Thrawn showing up in a video game, or Revan showing up in a cartoon or comic, and all without the original creator's consent.

I'm not deeply familiar with the EU, but as far as I know that's never happened.

Hell, when EA did their Star Wars MMO, they only referenced their own previous IP (KotOR). They didn't include specific elements from elsewhere. If Lucas owned everything in the EU, why didn't EA use any of it?

[number8]

Other way around. KotOR was developed by Bioware and published by LucasArts. Bioware was subsequently bought by EA. I'd be surprised if any of that meant the character of Revan could show up in a cartoon next summer.

Same goes elsewhere. Who owns Mara Jade and Thrawn? Random House? Zahn? Or Lucas?

With Dark Horse, my guess is anything they wrote will stay with them. Disney may or may not agree to extend their license, but if they don't, then I don't think it's automatic that DH characters show up in Marvel comics.

What company would agree to essentially do work for hire for Lucas? "Okay, George, we'll do all the work, pay you a fee and hand over all the IP too." That doesn't make any sense.

I believe that unique to KOTOR. Force Unleashed, for example, was developed by LucasArts and published by THQ.

Also, Revan has actually appeared in the Dark Horse comics and the novels. So really, I dunno what the deal is.

[Lazlo]

I believe that unique to KOTOR. Force Unleashed, for example, was developed by LucasArts and published by THQ.

Also, Revan has actually appeared in the Dark Horse comics and the novels. So really, I dunno what the deal is.

The deal is that LucasFilm, and now Disney, owns everything Star Wars, no matter where it came from.

[Lazlo]

Right, but in your example, does that mean NASCAR could turn around and sell ESPN's footage to CBS the next day, or the next year? Somehow, I doubt it.

They can and do. NASCAR owns NASCAR just like LucasFilm owns Star Wars.

[Irish]

I believe that unique to KOTOR. Force Unleashed, for example, was developed by LucasArts and published by THQ.

It gets a little confusing because LucasArts has always had a videogame division. It's been around longer and outlasted many others in the industry, and because it's Lucas, they have the ability to act as their own publisher.

But there are a bunch of titles (Battlefront, Galaxies, Lego Star Wars) where LucasArts wasn't involved in the development at all.

Also, Revan has actually appeared in the Dark Horse comics and the novels. So really, I dunno what the deal is.

Yeah, I knew he appeared in some comics but I assued that's some kind of cross licensing.

I don't know what the deal is either.

[Sxottlan]

So Spielberg doesn't want to do it. Snyder doesn't want to do it. Now same for Bird too.

Truth be told I can't really picture anyone in particular to do this. I would have liked to have seen Snyder's take on a lightsaber battle.

Whoever they hire, I just hope they get Yuen Woo Ping to do the fight choreography. If he's still working. But they'll probably go with Nick Gillard for continuity's sake.

[Sycophant]

Wait a second. Instead of Yuen Woo-Ping, get Corey Yuen. And then bring John Woo on to direct.

Actually, have Woo remake the first film or original trilogy. Give him 100% creative control, a blank check of a budget, and give him as long as he wants.

I'm moving to whichever alternate universe this happens in.

[Rowland]

Wait a second. Instead of Yuen Woo-Ping, get Corey Yuen. And then bring John Woo on to direct.

Or hell, have Yuen direct. DOA: Dead or Alive > PT.

[Sycophant]

Your line about Lucas not only capturing but 'inventing' your imagination struck me; it's an idea I find deeply depressing. The emotional investment people have made in the franchise oer the years is bad enough, but the continual creative investment is just staggering. I wonder sometimes what kind of amateur scene we'd have now if so many people hadn't thrown themselves into reproducing and reproducing work in Lucas' world.

This makes Star Wars something of a cultural black hole. It captures the energy from thousands of people and doesn't give a helluva lot back.

I see what you're saying. Perhaps the same could be said of all fandom. But I think it's not too much cause for depression.

In truth, I don't usually care much for fan works. It kind of amazes me that there are so many hours of Star Wars fan film. That there was a small-but-thriving Harry Potter-based music scene a few years back blows my mind. Fan work doujin comics and other media are pretty big shit here in Japan and the country's largest convention hall fills beyond capacity twice a year largely so people can trade and sell them. Some of them are even about Star Wars. I think AMVs are pretty dumb, too. But a friend of a friend started learning editing making well-timed remixes of cartoons. With his sense of timing and his technical knowledge he's now a professional editor in Hollywood.

I never became a great director or writer and probably never will, but my first stories were either set in the universes of my favorite television shows or mimicked them. I wrote Disney Afternoon fanfiction in high school. But that evolved into something else over time, as my passion for telling stories featuring Darkwing Duck morphed into a passion for working out original ideas. And even if it hadn't, my films didn't end up making the indie scene thrive or come more alive in any way.

Perhaps Star Wars doesn't "give back," but at the same time, maybe it doesn't have to. If people make something inspired by or completely derivative of Star Wars, they probably gain some satisfaction for it, as does that community they're a part of. I suppose I can't really find fault in someone for their hobbies, as I hope no one finds fault in mine, as mine so far haven't produced any net societal benefits. If someone is inspired to begin filmmaking by Star Wars and wants to strictly stay within Star Wars as they age and either continue to do it or drop the pursuit, it seems to me they would've been unlikely to breathe real life into the amateur scene (they probably would've made Star Trek fan films or never taken it up in the first place). We draw our first inspirations from somewhere. Something invents our imaginations, but that's just phase one, if we find the process of using them so invigorating.

I think there are a lot of works of art and entertainment more powerful and profound expressions of humanity than George Lucas has ever shown himself capable of producing. I find myself deeply invested in those things, and, on the whole, don't have much present investment in Star Wars, and don't think too highly of it. But I can't bring myself to seek to devalue what emotional connection people do have to it. In truth, if someone has a Star Wars-themed wedding, that may (though still only may) be a limited extent to which I can converse with them on pop culture and art (and possibly a larger variety of topics), but that's really okay.

I'm probably going toward a profession where I'll be involved in education in the fields of literature and film. Part of my passion for that is that I want to help to awaken a thirst for and interest in literature and thinking critically about it. So, a lot of things about fandom actually give me some amount of dismay (I just imagined students shipping characters from Endo Shusaku's historical novels and the hypothetical bummed me out). I think my life is richer for engaging with things the way I do, but I know not everyone will have any desire to. Perhaps, even from my perspective, that's a bit sad, but I don't feel like I can much argue against someone who gets immense emotional satisfaction out of the way they commit to their object of pop culture worship.

I think we basically had a version of this conversation (or perhaps there's two conversations going on now--one about fandom and one about whether people should read and watch Better Stuff) a few weeks ago in Random Thoughts. I'm articulating myself a lot better now, I think, but I know there are surely a lot of things we disagree on here. Sorry if this is redundant. I'd been thinking about those issues and about your comment from yesterday in particular for a while.

[megladon8]

I find it depressing that one would find it depressing.

[D_Davis]

So much fail in thread.

There are only three words anyone needs to hear:

Alan Dean Foster

[D_Davis]

=

My ass in the seat.

[Irish]

@Syncophant I love the personal angle you're taking with these posts; it's really engaging.

I'm not making any judgements about quality or genre (and I'm not sure why meg seems to think I am). It's more that Star Wars, while influential in a commercial sense, is empty in creative one.

I think there's a difference between art that can inspire someone to want to do creative work in general (like your editor friend) and art that influences other professionals and pushes them towards better work. Star Wars didn't broaden science fiction, or action adventures, and it doesn't lend itself to being a source of derivation.

It can't be, because it's derivative itself; it wears most of its influences on its sleeve. This is similar to Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Matrix, and Kill Bill. In other words: You can't make a pastiche of a pastiche.

@D_Davis I have an enormous soft spot for Foster (and Splinter in particular), but I think he's the definition of hack -- a work for hire guy with zero standards. He'll be damned to creative hell as the sole person responsibile for encouraging the production and sale of "novelizations," which are the single most retarded invention to come out of America in the late 20th century.

Also, I couldn't help but laugh at this:

Foster was stunned when Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi revealed the characters of Luke and Leia as brother and sister; in Splinter, the characters exhibit quite a bit of romantic and sexual energy.

Now that would be interesting coming from Disney. :P

[Dead & Messed Up]

He'll be damned to creative hell as the sole person responsibile for encouraging the production and sale of "novelizations," which are the single most retarded invention to come out of America in the late 20th century.

Second-most.

[D_Davis]

@D_Davis I have an enormous soft spot for Foster (and Splinter in particular), but I think he's the definition of hack --

He's King of the hacks, which is why he would work perfectly with Dinney's marketing and PR plans for Star Wars.

[Irish]

He's King of the hacks, which is why he would work perfectly with Dinney's marketing and PR plans for Star Wars.

:lol: Point.

[D_Davis]

I would so-see a Splinter adaptation, though.

[D_Davis]

And I have a soft-spot in my heart for novelizations of movies; I wasn't allowed to see Rated-R movies when I was a kid, so I always read the books instead (I know, bizarre parent logic). Without ADF, there are many "movies" I would not have "seen" as a youngster.

[Watashi]

Apparently Jon Favreau is the frontrunner. Le ugh.

[Lazlo]

Gross. Thought they might go a bit adventurous/interesting in the vein of giving Whedon The Avengers. Gotta hold out hope in the fact that Rian Johnson hasn't been ruled out.

[Dukefrukem]

Apparently Jon Favreau is the frontrunner. Le ugh.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo

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[D_Davis]

I thought people liked Iron Man?

[Dukefrukem]

He'd had two terrible projects in a row.