Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[thefourthwall]

I was shocked when I was unable to find a thread for the show in the TV forum (there's a very little discussion in the Kitchen Sink forum, following Mara's amazing Buffy as Monomythic Hero essay). But, I know we've got some fans out there.

So, I solicit help. I'm intending to show my class an episode tomorrow, and I haven't decided which one. I need an episode that can stand alone. For now they're just reading about how we can read television as a text to teach us about our culture's ideology. Next week they'll be reading a [student] essay that places Buffy with the third wave of feminism.

Thoughts? Or if that's a tall order maybe just what's a good stand alone episode that won't need tons of context explained?

[ledfloyd]

i think 'hush' is my favorite episode.

[Mara]

When my old roommate lost a bet with me and had to watch one episode, I made her watch "Something Blue" because I thought it was funny and scary and awesome. "Hush" is very cool as well.

But for a class-- hard to say. "Once More with Feeling" is extraordinary, of course, and Whedon tried to make it stand alone, but the students might be offput by the singing and dancing.

The best episode of the entire series is "The Body," but I'm not sure how the emotional impact would rate with someone who had never seen the show before.

Maybe you should say how you are defining "third wave" feminism.

[Saya]

This thread reminds me that I still have to see seasons 6 & 7.

Hush is great. Living Conditions from season 4 is also a pretty good standalone episode.

And Helpless from season 3 is great too, but I don't think that was a standalone episode.

[Mara]

One of the most interesting episodes, in my opinion, dealing with feminism within the realm of the show is "I was Made to Love You," which is the one where we first meet Warren and April, his sexbot. It's also the one where Buffy tries to act more feminine in order to snag a man (Ben.)

There's also some meta-arc stuff that may not interest a first-time watcher (Spike placing an order for the Buffybot, and Joyce's death) but it also has poor, pathetic April's dying hope that Warren will return for her:

April: What if he comes back and he can't find me in the dark?
Buffy: I'm here. I'll make sure that he finds you.
April: Maybe this is a girlfriend test. If I wait here patiently this time, he'll come back.

[Mara]

I wish you could show "The Gift." But it's way steeped in the mythology.

"She's a hero. She's not like us."

[Lucky]

I wish you could show "The Gift." But it's way steeped in the mythology.

"She's a hero. She's not like us."

That's my favorite episode. I agree it wouldn't be a good one to show, though.

Hmm...

"Hush" was my first thought, too.

Scanning through the episode listing I'm trying to pick an episode that can stand alone...

I'll suggest "Anne" (the one where Buffy runs off to live alone) and "The I in Team" (where Buffy first joins the Initiative and Maggie sets her up).

[Mara]

More thoughts:

Doppelgängland: Evil Willow! So much fun.

Fool for Love: Excellent, but more about Spike than Buffy. We see her fearing her own mortality.

Restless: Deeply, deeply entrenched in the mythology, but this isn't an episode that TRIES to make sense.

Family: Some really dark views of female sexuality seen through Tara and her family. Also, a very young Amy Adams.

Helpless: Buffy loses her powers and runs around screaming like a little girl.

[Mara]

"Bad Eggs"

[

Show Spoiler

Just kidding.

]

Where the Wild Things Are.

Beer Bad.

[ledfloyd]

god, this thread makes me want to watch through buffy all over again.

[Mara]

I thought Angel was an interesting failure. It certainly was never as good as Buffy.

Some specific aspects, like the characters of Fred and Lorne, were really well done. And certain specific episodes were great. But, overall, it was a bit of a head-scratcher.

And Spike should never have come back. He should have stayed dead. He died a hero in Buffy and was resurrected as a buffoon. Boooooooo.

EDIT: It must also be mentioned that the show improved some characters-- especially Wesley, who became one of my favorite Buffyverse characters. Cordy was good in Buffy but better in Angel.

[ledfloyd]

i've never watched angel.

[thefourthwall]

Thanks for the suggestions, all! I ended up going with "Hush" which I really didn't want to because it seems so standard, but I didn't give myself enough time to review episodes. I couldn't just watch part of it, I had to watch it all for every one I considered--not time effective. I think it worked fine.

I must say that I adore this show so much. I used to always have a disc handy for watching right before bed or while I was getting ready in the morning. Then my friend and I started rewatching it together with the intent to do it chronologically, so that we start alternating Buffy and Angel starting with Season 4.

But now I only ever want to watch the next episode that we're on, yet I feel like I'm cheating on her if I watch them by myself. And with the wedding, me moving, and dissertation work--not to mention all her stuff--we haven't been able to watch in a while, and I miss it.

[thefourthwall]

Yeah, I didn't mind Angel because of what amazing things it did with Wesley, Cordy, and even Angel himself, who I always thought was a bit of a pansy in Buffy. Certainly not as good but still pretty darn good.

And I didn't mind Spike coming back--though I'm not entirely objective where his character is concerned. I think it continued the Angel/Spike foil amazingly for being sans Buffy. The episode "Destiny" (I think...the one where they race for a cup...of Mountain Dew?) really starts to get at the issues that I've long argued. Spike is better than Angel, both as a man and as a vampire.

[Thirdmango]

Almost done with the third season. I'm still trying to understand why it's so good cause I haven't really figured it out yet.

[Mara]

Almost done with the third season. I'm still trying to understand why it's so good cause I haven't really figured it out yet.

I think the third season is where it got really good. If you're not enjoying it, it may not be your cup of tea. (Although, really, if I were you I'd stick it out until the fifth to see if you change your mind. The fifth season is EPIC.)

[Kurosawa Fan]

Figured I should move stuff here. Just finished ep. 5 (Never Kill a Boy...). I liked the tone of this episode better than any in season one thus far. I gotta say though, every person in that school would be spreading rumors that Buffy was having an illicit affair with the librarian. I hope that becomes a small issue in an upcoming episode, with the principal having a talk with Buffy. That would be fun. Nothing that lasts more than two minutes, just a casual mention would be cool.

[Mara]

I'm rewatching for fun, too. "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date" was better than I remembered. It's the first time a very serious theme is lightly addressed, which is that no matter how perky and cute she is, and no matter how evil the creatures are that she kills, Buffy is a professional killer, and that does something to you. You can't enjoy it too much, or it hurts your soul.

The rest of the season, graded, per me: (no spoilers, just hints)

The Pack: B-. Somewhat silly premise, but a couple cool scenes and one of my all-time favorite BtVS deaths.

Angel: A-. The first really quality episode in the series, in my opinion.

I Robot, You Jane: C-. Ridiculous. However, great as a nostalgia trip to the very early days of the "net" with "e-letters" and "jacking in."

The Puppet Show: B-. Oddly enough, I remember being really frightened by this episode the first time I watched it. After watching the entire series, that seems a little silly. (Be sure to watch the scene after the credits, KF, if it's on the Hulu version.)

Nightmares: B-. Suffers in comparison to season 4's "Restless."

Out of Mind, Out of Sight: C. Although it's been quite awhile.

Prophecy Girl: A. We finally dig in to the meat of the matter.

Oh, and regarding Buffy and my man Giles: (no real spoilers, but just in case you're sensitive, I'll wrap it)

[

Show Spoiler

They stay really far away from any indication that there's inappropriateness there. There are actually more hints with Willow than Giles (take a careful look inside her season 1 locker, if it's open) and she mentioned years later that she used to have a crush on him.

As far as I can remember, only one character ever wonders aloud if there was "something" between Buffy and Giles. It's more common for characters to remark how wonderfully dedicated he appears to be to his students, which is played for laughs, as dramatic irony.

]

[Kurosawa Fan]

Uh oh. Are there normally scenes after the credits? Please say no, because I stop the show as soon as the credits roll.

Is there anything in those lowly rated episodes that I can't miss? I'm halfway through The Pack, but if I can just watch Angel, The Puppet Show, Nightmares, and Prophecy Girl, I'd rather do that than watch two mediocre filler eps.

[Mara]

Uh oh. Are there normally scenes after the credits? Please say no, because I stop the show as soon as the credits roll.

No, this is sort of an outtake. Or an extra scene. And I just checked hulu-- they show it concurrent with the episode.

Is there anything in those lowly rated episodes that I can't miss? I'm halfway through The Pack, but if I can just watch Angel, The Puppet Show, Nightmares, and Prophecy Girl, I'd rather do that than watch two mediocre filler eps.

Hmm. Interesting question. Both episodes are referenced in later episodes, but I'm not sure...

OH WAIT. I Robot, You Jane introduces an important long-term character. Can't miss her.

You could probably get away with just reading a wikipedia summary of Out of Mind, Out of Sight, if you want to speed towards season 2.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'll just watch them both to be safe. Thanks.

[Winston*]

You've watched that praying mantis episode, then KF? Probably the worst one of the series if I remember right. [

Show Spoiler

That or the one where with the beer that turns people into cavemen.

]

[Kurosawa Fan]

You've watched that praying mantis episode, then KF? Probably the worst one of the series if I remember right. That or the one where with the beer that turns people into cavemen.

Nope. Already saw that one. I'm watching the one where the hyena spirit possesses Xander and a couple other kids at school.

[Mara]

You've watched that praying mantis episode, then KF? Probably the worst one of the series if I remember right. That or the one [

Show Spoiler

where with the beer that turns people into cavemen.

]

Watch the spoilers. It's not a big one, but better safe than sorry.

"Teacher's Pet" is baaaaad, but not as bad as my two absolute worst episodes, both in the usually-good season 4: "Beer Bad" and "Where the Wild Things Are."

Brrrrrrrrrrrrr. Badbadbadbad.

[Winston*]

Season 4 I didn't like so much overall. I thought the main plot was stupid and it has the dullest character ever.