HBO's A Game of Thrones

[Derek]

Theon's return home had him come face-to-face with his real father and in the absence of his surrogate in Ned Stark he has no real allegiance except to his heritage and he makes a rash decision to honor his father and family and to prove himself an ironborn. He immediately proves inept in this role as well.

Exactly. It's a rash decision so it's meant to appear sudden. He was expecting to be welcomed home as, even as he stressed to his father, it's not as if he chose to live with the Starks all those years. He felt embarrassed and outcast, so he made a bold move that he thought would impress his father.

[Glass Co.]

The Arya/Tywin scenes are definitely the highlights in every episode these days.

The dragon steal cliffhanger was a little lame since I think we can be pretty certain that nothing will happen to them (although as Martin has proved, no one or thing is safe), but I absolutely adore The Spice King. I hope that somehow he and Tyrion get at least one conversation together.

[Qrazy]

The Arya/Tywin scenes are definitely the highlights in every episode these days.

The dragon steal cliffhanger was a little lame since I think we can be pretty certain that nothing will happen to them (although as Martin has proved, no one or thing is safe), but I absolutely adore The Spice King. I hope that somehow he and Tyrion get at least one conversation together.

Extremely doubtful.

[Irish]

It's been a little fast, yes, but I think as I alluded to before, the shadow of the death of Ned Stark has really stretched into this season, particularly in Theon. When with Robb and the northerners he was still with their cause, the legacy of the family that has raised him, quasi-prisoner/servant or not. Theon's return home had him come face-to-face with his real father and in the absence of his surrogate in Ned Stark he has no real allegiance except to his heritage and he makes a rash decision to honor his father and family and to prove himself an ironborn. He immediately proves inept in this role as well.

Exactly. It's a rash decision so it's meant to appear sudden. He was expecting to be welcomed home as, even as he stressed to his father, it's not as if he chose to live with the Starks all those years. He felt embarrassed and outcast, so he made a bold move that he thought would impress his father.

So I guess my question to you both then is -- how fast would you turn? From the Starks to the family that essentially abandoned you and then derided you to your face years later?

I had assumed Theon had lived with the Starks since childhood. The relationship to his own family isn't really mentioned much on the show, which is why I'm trying to make sense of it.

(I did think Bran asking him "Did you really hate us the whole time?" was very good, as was Theon saying of another to the wilder woman "He had no honor and no loyalty in him," without realization the contradiction of his own situation.)

[Lucky]

I understand where you're going with that, Irish, but this show isn't set in our world or time. Asking when we would change is apples to oranges. In the GoT world they make it a serious point that your name defines you. John Snow, Lannisters, Starks, Baratheons, Tullys, et al. And how many times have we heard Daenarys Targaryan spout off her ancestry in high emotion? Theon will never be a Stark and he knows that. His true shot at glory and honor is through his family crest. That's what drives these people in this world. Martin includes extensive family trees in the appendices of his novels for good reason.

[Irish]

I understand where you're going with that, Irish, but this show isn't set in our world or time. Asking when we would change is apples to oranges. In the GoT world they make it a serious point that your name defines you. John Snow, Lannisters, Starks, Baratheons, Tullys, et al. And how many times have we heard Daenarys Targaryan spout off her ancestry in high emotion? Theon will never be a Stark and he knows that. His true shot at glory and honor is through his family crest. That's what drives these people in this world. Martin includes extensive family trees in the appendices of his novels for good reason.

Good point. It's a rigid caste system and your point about the names in particular makes a lot of sense.

[[ETM]]

There's also the scene where Tywin dusts off an ancient book to show someone who some lesser house owes allegiance to. It's not something exactly set in stone, but those are traditions and oaths that don't go away easily. Your name does define you.

[Irish]

Dinklage on the cover of Rolling Stone. Article text doesn't seem to be online yet.

[Irish]

[youtube]p1GvOfIuxlA[/youtube]

[Derek]

In case 30 seconds isn't enough for you...

[youtube]PTt8_09b0QY[/youtube]

[Wryan]

No. No it can't be.

[

Show Spoiler

Gotta be some other kids. I refuse to believe it....oh! the two orphans (or whatever) sent to that farm? Possible.

]

Also, really hoping Arya/Tywin don't end up at the cliche they're jauntily bounding toward. Still great fun tho.

[Thirdmango]

I now have HBOGO so I was able to watch this right after it aired, I'm very excited about that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this may have been the most nudity light episodes ever. I think there was only one exposed male bottom and that's it.

[ledfloyd]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this may have been the most nudity light episodes ever. I think there was only one exposed male bottom and that's it.

there was one couple weeks ago with no nudity at all.

that ending... yeah, i can't believe it.

and the tywin/arya scenes have been the highlight of every episode since their inception. so well written, it boggles the mind when people remind me they aren't in the books.

[Irish]

No. No it can't be.

[

Show Spoiler

Gotta be some other kids. I refuse to believe it....oh! the two orphans (or whatever) sent to that farm? Possible.

]

[

Show Spoiler

I assumed that it was the two kids from the farm, not Bran & that other kid. I don't think the show (or Martin) would waste the juice of killing a major character onscreen.

]

[Watashi]

[

Show Spoiler

I don't think the show (or Martin) would waste the juice of killing a major character onscreen.

]

Uh.....

[Irish]

Also, what did everyone think of the scenes with Cersei?

That's twice in one episode where she's made to be sympathetic; pretty big change from every representation of her to date.

One of my issues with the show is that the Lannisters, while occasionally great villains, are pretty cartoonish characters. They're one sided, mustache-twirling people, always seemingly one step away from tying somebody to railroad tracks.

This episode takes pains to make Cersei more accessible, and I'm wondering if that's a genuine broadening of the character or, more simply, she's actively playing at something else.

Same goes with Jaime (strange they're both openly admitting to incest now too).

[Wryan]

and the tywin/arya scenes have been the highlight of every episode since their inception. so well written, it boggles the mind when people remind me they aren't in the books.

Wow they're not? Now you've just blown my mind.

[Wryan]

One of my issues with the show is that the Lannisters, while occasionally great villains, are pretty cartoonish characters. They're one sided, mustache-twirling people, always seemingly one step away from tying somebody to railroad tracks.

I don't think much of Cersei, though it may have more to do with Headey's performance, which I think is one-note and not always convincing. But I think Tywin refutes the notion of cartoonish Lannisters. He's shown more shades than villainy. I think Jaime hasn't been given quite enough to do overall, especially in S2 when he's been perma-chained, but what he has done has been pretty good. Then you have Tyrion, who can't possibly be described in that way. He's a great character, rich in intricacy if you ask me.

EDIT: Joffrey, of course, is a roiling ball of malice, the little shit.

[Fezzik]

roiling ball of malice, the little shit.

I am remembering this description for all time. ALL TIME

[MadMan]

Okay, now I'm all caught up on Game of Thrones. And I have to say that the season has had its ups and downs while also floundering around a bit in the first couple of episodes. However, the last batch of episodes has seen the show regain its footing a bit and become interesting and engaging again.

That said, I find the Starks really dull. The Lannisters are way more interesting, and at least they are honest about their goals. I liked the scene where Robb is confronted about the war he's fighting, and how he's kind of ignoring the negative effects of the conflict.

As for the end of the latest episode: [

Show Spoiler

Man was that disturbing and awful. Yet I think it was those two other kids, and not the younger Stark brothers.

]

[ledfloyd]

on the contrary i've found season 2 to be much better than season 1, which i already kind of loved.

[Lucky]

I, too, am finding S2 an improvement over the first, especially since I wasn't blown away by the second book. They very wisely skimmed through the first 3/4 of material and decided to focus the season on the part where things actually happen.

[Lucky]

Also, one subplot from the novel I figured they wouldn't throw away (or at least haven't included yet) is...

[

Show Spoiler

Tyrion's attempt to poison Cersei. Or am I completely remembering this wrong? I thought they were leading up to this with the blackmailing of the cousin.

]

[Qrazy]

Okay, now I'm all caught up on Game of Thrones. And I have to say that the season has had its ups and downs while also floundering around a bit in the first couple of episodes. However, the last batch of episodes has seen the show regain its footing a bit and become interesting and engaging again.

That said, I find the Starks really dull. The Lannisters are way more interesting, and at least they are honest about their goals. I liked the scene where Robb is confronted about the war he's fighting, and how he's kind of ignoring the negative effects of the conflict.

As for the end of the latest episode: [

Show Spoiler

Man was that disturbing and awful. Yet I think it was those two other kids, and not the younger Stark brothers.

]

As opposed to?

[Derek]

Jaime becomes a much more interesting character, probably within the next few episodes. He's anything but a mustache-twirling villain, which was the main reason adding his recent murder in the cell was a terrible decision. He's one of the most interesting characters in the books, but the show really has only shown one side of him. His line about always breaking one vow while trying to preserve another is a good hint they're taking him in the right direction.