The TV Discussion Thread

[Irish]

I've already caught a lot of shit for this, but Battlestar Galactica, while well done and smart, just isn't grabbing me. I'm going to see about getting through the first season, but if it doesn't pull me in by then, I'm going to skip the rest.

Meanwhile, Boardwalk Empire has grabbed me in a big way.

"Galatica" almost changes format after the first season, because Moore can't help injecting religion into his sci-fi (see also: "Deep Space 9"). Run now while you can.

"Boardwalk" will grab you, but don't binge-watch it. If you do, you'll begin to notice how hackneyed and repetitive it is. That show gooses the audience with liberal doses of T&A and violence because it's not actually about anything substantial. Pretty art direction and costume design, but that's about it.

[[ETM]]

If I only had a penny for every time I had to endure the "Keep religion out of my science fiction, hurr durr!" rants related to BSG... let's just say I'd have quite a lot of pennies.

[Sycophant]

I don't object to the inclusion of religion in BSG. I object to how it's included.

[Irish]

I don't object to the inclusion of religion in BSG. I object to how it's included.

^ Mostly this. BSG is based on Mormon mythology, and it's totally transparent. They didn't even try to hide it. DS9 is almost as bad with its inane Jewish subtext.

You can tell interesting stories based around religion in science fiction (eg: "A Canticle for Leibowitz" and "A Spectre is Haunting Texas"), but Moore's not the guy for it.

He's too damn lazy.

[Watashi]

Religion was a major influence from the very beginning in the mini-series.

[number8]

Were you guys not aware that the original 70s series was created by a Mormon?

[Watashi]

Anyway, I liked the way religion was handled in BSG. Just because the Mormon influences weren't subtle, doesn't make that a bad thing. It's nice to see as the series progresses, it becomes more ambiguous about what "God's plan" is. Also, it's refreshing to see a pro-polytheism stance for once.

[number8]

I also feel it's not really something they could avoid. The entire impetus for Moore to remake BSG was because he wanted to make a show about 9/11. 9/11 was a conflict shrouded in religious jargon. Therefore, BSG's conflicts are steeped with religious conflicts. The Mormonism references are just things that got carried over from the original series because they had to keep the names and myths, but I don't think any of the stories are meant to reflect that at all; just general religious strife. If anything, a lot of it drew more from Islamic culture and their conflict with the West, because of the aforementioned 9/11 allusion.

[Watashi]

I do think it's intentional that the "terrorists" (Cylons) are the ones who believed in the one true God while the rest believed in the "heathen" religion.

[Watashi]

Man, reading Ronald Moore's bio just depresses me. The guy is worse than Joss Whedon when catching a break on network TV. I would loved to see the unaired pilot for the "Harry Potter for grown-ups" series that starred James Callis, Tricia Helfer, and Jamie Bamber.

[number8]

I do think it's intentional that the "terrorists" (Cylons) are the ones who believed in the one true God while the rest believed in the "heathen" religion.

Even that they switched around with, especially in S3 when they made [

Show Spoiler

the humans the suicide bombing terrorists and the Cylons the occupying superpowered liberators.

]

[[ETM]]

Yeah, it was never a gimmick or an "agenda". Even when they switched things around, it always felt natural, not like "and now WE'RE the bad guys, GET IT?". I'm convinced almost all of criticism of religion in BSG comes from some nerdy need for science fiction to be "pure", as in no "melodrama" (meaning - anything dealing with human concepts such as "love", "emotion", "human relationships") or religion. Just action/horror and technobabble.

[Mr. McGibblets]

Man, reading Ronald Moore's bio just depresses me. The guy is worse than Joss Whedon when catching a break on network TV. I would loved to see the unaired pilot for the "Harry Potter for grown-ups" series that starred James Callis, Tricia Helfer, and Jamie Bamber.

Is that 17th Precinct? It wasn't very Harry-Potter-ish by the time it was made. It's basically Law & Order with magic.

[number8]

It was never supposed to be Harry Potter-ish. That's just code word for "fantasy series about magic spells." It was always meant to be a police procedural.

[Irish]

The entire impetus for Moore to remake BSG was because he wanted to make a show about 9/11. 9/11 was a conflict shrouded in religious jargon. Therefore, BSG's conflicts are steeped with religious conflicts.

Eh, I don't know how accurate that is (and if it came from Moore, it sounds like something he made up for an interviewer after the fact).

If you watch DS9, especially the later seasons, it's like a dry run for the kind of stories he was telling on BSG.

[number8]

What? How is BSG not about 9/11? That was the entire buzz about the show when it came on.

[Irish]

What? How is BSG not about 9/11? That was the entire buzz about the show when it came on.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the metaphor in and of itself. But citing 9/11 as the show's impetus doesn't strike me as genuine because Moore had been thinking about and writing these kinds of stories for years.

He went from writer to head writer to showrunner on DS9, and in that time the show tipped heavily toward its religious elements. It did stories about terrorism. It did stories about military occupations and the political intrigue around that. It did stories about refugees. It did stories about sci-fi polytheistic religions. It did stories about trust and betrayal, about cultural and ethnic identity. TNG even did an episode about torture, back in 1992, in an episode written by Moore. If you watch it now, DS9 almost plays like a rough draft version of BSG.

So if Moore wants to claim that 9/11 drove him to create BSG, I'd say "Uhhhh, okay, fine," and then wonder to what he would attribute almost all of his work before 2004, most of which contains the exact same story elements and themes, years before 9/11 was even planned.

[Sycophant]

I'm convinced almost all of criticism of religion in BSG comes from some nerdy need for science fiction to be "pure", as in no "melodrama" (meaning - anything dealing with human concepts such as "love", "emotion", "human relationships") or religion. Just action/horror and technobabble.

Welp. No point in trying to unconvince you then.

[number8]

Had nothing to do all day yesterday but recover from the previous night's party and get high so I ended up rewatching the entire first season of The Shield.

I'm not sure if I noticed this the first time through, but there is a small child dying/getting seriously injured/raped in literally almost every episode of S1. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedgy.

On Season 2 now. This season seemed safe at first, but then in episode 5, a 3-year-old overdoses on heroin. Took them that long, though! The show is maturing.

[Winston*]

I don't object to the presence of religion in science fiction. I just think the religious aspect of Battlestar Galactica was ultimately pretty incoherent. Hurr durr.

[Winston*]

One of the weirdest parts of The Shield was when vaccines might've caused Vic's kids' autism. That and when Dutch killed that cat.

[number8]

Eh, the cat strangling was a great character moment for him, actually. It seemed like a logical step for Dutch.

[Winston*]

Eh, the cat strangling was a great character moment for him, actually. It seemed like a logical step for Dutch.

I felt like they didn't know what to do with him after season 2. Admittedly I haven't watched 6 or 7.

[number8]

I felt like they didn't know what to do with him after season 2. Admittedly I haven't watched 6 or 7.

I kind of agree with that, though it's not just him, the Strike Team story came to such a great boiling point in S6 and 7 that the other characters became more of a distraction.

[Qrazy]

I felt like they didn't know what to do with him after season 2. Admittedly I haven't watched 6 or 7.

You should watch six and seven, that's when the show got really good. Great finale.