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Thread: The News Thread

  1. #9176
    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    This was the war that MC predicted Trump would start btw. Just want to make sure everyone remembers that.
    What role do you believe Trump had in this situation?
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  2. #9177
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    What role do you believe Trump had in this situation?
    One that didn't start a war that was already predicted would inevitably happen.

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  3. #9178
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    One that didn't start a war that was already predicted would inevitably happen.
    I'm confused, because there was already a war since 1950. What role do you feel Trump has had in the agreement between Korean nations? You seem to be suggesting that he should be given credit for something and I'm just trying to figure out what that is.
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  4. #9179
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    I'm confused, because there was already a war since 1950. What role do you feel Trump has had in the agreement between Korean nations? You seem to be suggesting that he should be given credit for something and I'm just trying to figure out what that is.
    Forget it.

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  5. #9180
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    In all fairness, I don't like Trump any more than you do (although I do find him more amusing since it's not my country) but this historical event happened during his administration where he apparently did nothing but threaten North Korea with extinction.

  6. #9181
    Everybody is a little drunk on the great historical never-before-seen significance of this. Are you all seriously taking Kim Jung Un at face value? As if any of what is happening is actually sincere? I don’t know what his end game is, but I guarantee you it’s not everlasting peace and a nuke free world just because he knows it’s good for humanity. FFS.

  7. #9182
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    He's also still running the most oppressive and isolated regime in the world. The average North Korean isn't likely to benefit from this.
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  8. #9183
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)
    In fairness, we did send out an S.O.S.
    This could have been their waterloo.
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  9. #9184
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    Quote Quoting amberlita (view post)
    Everybody is a little drunk on the great historical never-before-seen significance of this. Are you all seriously taking Kim Jung Un at face value? As if any of what is happening is actually sincere? I don’t know what his end game is, but I guarantee you it’s not everlasting peace and a nuke free world just because he knows it’s good for humanity. FFS.
    MOVIES

    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

    • 1917 (Mendes, 2020) ♦♦♦½ [+]
    • Shrek (Adamson/Jenson, 2001) ♦½ [+]
    • Psycho (Hitchcock, 1960) ♦♦♦½ [-] -- rewatch
    • Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) ♦♦ [+]
    • El Camino: A Breaking Bad Movie (Gilligan, 2019) ♦♦♦ [-]
    • 6 Underground (Bay, 2019) ♦½ [+]
    • Rebecca (Hitchcock, 1940) ♦♦♦ [-]
    • Knives Out (Johnson, 2019) ♦♦♦½ [-]
    • Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Johnson, 2017) ♦♦♦½ [-] -- rewatch
    • Ford vs. Ferrari (aka Le Mans '66) (Mangold, 2019) ♦♦♦½ [+]
    • The Irishman (Scorsese, 2019) ♦♦♦ [-]
    • Torpedo (Huybrechts, 2019) ♦♦♦½ [-]

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  10. #9185
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    Quote Quoting amberlita (view post)
    Are you all seriously taking Kim Jung Un at face value?
    Certainly not. This is what I'm trying to tease out, what exactly is going on here.
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  11. #9186
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    Quote Quoting amberlita (view post)
    Everybody is a little drunk on the great historical never-before-seen significance of this. Are you all seriously taking Kim Jung Un at face value? As if any of what is happening is actually sincere? I don’t know what his end game is, but I guarantee you it’s not everlasting peace and a nuke free world just because he knows it’s good for humanity. FFS.
    Agreed, but it's still an unexpected change of pace from what we'd been hearing.

  12. #9187
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting amberlita (view post)
    Everybody is a little drunk on the great historical never-before-seen significance of this. Are you all seriously taking Kim Jung Un at face value? As if any of what is happening is actually sincere? I don’t know what his end game is, but I guarantee you it’s not everlasting peace and a nuke free world just because he knows it’s good for humanity. FFS.
    They are shutting down their nuclear test site in May... so...maybe that has more to do with the test site collapsing on itself, but they are definitely moving forward nuclear free.

    It probably has more to do with N.K.'s people, who are starving, than wanting to do it for all man kind.

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  13. #9188
    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    In all fairness, I don't like Trump any more than you do (although I do find him more amusing since it's not my country) but this historical event happened during his administration where he apparently did nothing but threaten North Korea with extinction.
    I think the more pertinent context is the DPRK's success is developing a nuclear arsenal, which acts as an insurance policy against a US-led invasion, rather than Trump's rhetoric or even the tightening of sanctions. In other words, just because this is happening during Trump's administration doesn't mean he's the cause of it.
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  14. #9189
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    They are shutting down their nuclear test site in May... so...maybe that has more to do with the test site collapsing on itself, but they are definitely moving forward nuclear free.

    It probably has more to do with N.K.'s people, who are starving, than wanting to do it for all man kind.
    They just said they're not going to do any more tests (which at this point are unnecessary to the regime's continued survival), not that they're going to give up the bombs and missiles they've already produced. Kim may be a murderous dictator, but that doesn't mean he's either crazy or stupid.
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  15. #9190
    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Certainly not. This is what I'm trying to tease out, what exactly is going on here.
    My guess is Kim is looking for relief from international sanctions so he can continue economic reforms to try to build the North's economy (and import luxury goods for the country's elite).
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  16. #9191
    Quote Quoting amberlita (view post)
    I don’t know what his end game is
    It's the survival of the regime and Kim's personal survival. One thing he and Trump seem to share is their fear of being assassinated.
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  17. #9192
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    It probably has more to do with N.K.'s people, who are starving, than wanting to do it for all man kind.
    By the way, although there was a serious four-year famine in the '90s (which the North Koreans call "the March of Suffering"), and it is still one of the poorest countries on the planet, the idea that "the North Korean people are starving" is a stereotype that doesn't really capture the complexity of the situation on the ground.
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  18. #9193
    Second star to the right [ETM]'s Avatar
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    They're still so undernourished that they're on average up to 3 inches shorter than South Koreans, according to studies.

  19. #9194
    Quote Quoting [ETM] (view post)
    They're still so undernourished that they're on average up to 3 inches shorter than South Koreans, according to studies.
    Undernourished isn't the same as starving, which is the term I objected to. Furthermore, I don't know how useful averages are in a country where there's such a huge disparity between the countryside, where the people really do live in desperate poverty (to say nothing of the gulags), and Pyongyang, where the people have a higher standard of living (though still not as high as anywhere in the South). In other words, even North Korea isn't homogeneous.
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  20. #9195
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Starving...Undernourished ... I mean you understood the point. Yessh

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  21. #9196
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    I don't know how useful averages are in a country where there's such a huge disparity between the countryside, where the people really do live in desperate poverty (to say nothing of the gulags), and Pyongyang, where the people have a higher standard of living (though still not as high as anywhere in the South). In other words, even North Korea isn't homogeneous.
    Isn't that precisely where averages are useful?

  22. #9197
    Quote Quoting [ETM] (view post)
    Isn't that precisely where averages are useful?
    Not if you want to have a more precise understanding of North Korean society.
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  23. #9198
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Not if you want to have a more precise understanding of North Korean society.
    "Accurate" isn't the same as "precise", which is the term I am objecting to.

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  24. #9199
    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    "Accurate" isn't the same as "precise", which is the term I am objecting to.
    It's not useful to any of us to misrepresent what's happening in North Korea.
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  25. #9200
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    It's not useful to any of us to misrepresent what's happening in North Korea.
    Agree, but I think you're splitting hairs here and I wasn't misrepresenting anything.

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