The News Thread

[B-side]

I don't know if I should start a new thread for this, but since we have two impassioned believers in the Austrian school of economics, which is too laissez-faire for me, I figured this would be worth discussing. It's clear that Keynesian concepts of stimulus are popular and effective, and have been implemented to some extent by virtually every industrialized nation in the world, but what of Georgism? It sounds like a good middle ground to me. Any capitalist country is going to struggle with recessions. Economics is less a science and more a guessing game. Capitalism is an inherently flawed system, and non-interventionist Austrian economics is no solution to those suffering. But let's not debate my opinion. Is anyone here familiar with Georgism?

[Barty]

Keynesian stimulus effective? Lol

[B-side]

Keynesian stimulus effective? Lol

Well, yes, it's been employed by most nations in the recent recession. Many of them nationalized several of their largest banks. The New Deal was stimulative and helped get us out of the Great Depression.

[Barty]

Well, yes, it's been employed by most nations in the recent recession. Many of them nationalized several of their largest banks. The New Deal was stimulative and helped get us out of the Great Depression.

The New Deal was the most backwards, idiotic government economic program instituted in US history, and it severely lengthened the Great Depression by years. Roosevelt was an economic ignoramus.

[B-side]

The New Deal was the most backwards, idiotic government economic program instituted in US history, and it severely lengthened the Great Depression by years. Roosevelt was an economic ignoramus.

Parts of it were questionable, definitely, but things like employing the unemployed by having them work on infrastructure was a brilliant idea.

[number8]

Anxious to prove he's not insane, confessed mass killer Anders Behring Breivik told a court Monday that questions about his mental health are part of a racist plot to discredit his extreme anti-Muslim ideology.

Mr. Breivik, who has admitted to killing 77 people in a bombing and youth camp massacre, said that no one would have asked for a psychiatric examination had he been a “bearded jihadist.”

He... kinda has a point?

[MadMan]

His point is completely twisted, but rather spot on, sadly.

[Sven]

I'm pretty sure they actually do psychiatric evaluations on captured jihadists. The problem is that most of the time they are not caught because they kill themselves.

[number8]

I'm pretty sure they actually do psychiatric evaluations on captured jihadists. The problem is that most of the time they are not caught because they kill themselves.

The larger point is that they want to declare Breivik insane and put him in a mental hospital instead of prison. Breivik is pointing out that we don't usually treat jihadists we caught with the same benefit.

The twisted part, of course, is that he's pissed about the leniency. Islamic terrorists and their motives are in his mind respected by us as enemy zealotry, whereas he thinks his "killing liberals in the name of Christ" political ideology is being discredited as the mad rantings of a loony.

[bac0n]

Yes, there is such a thing as too much bacon.

[romantisaurusrex]

The larger point is that they want to declare Breivik insane and put him in a mental hospital instead of prison. Breivik is pointing out that we don't usually treat jihadists we caught with the same benefit.

The twisted part, of course, is that he's pissed about the leniency. Islamic terrorists and their motives are in his mind respected by us as enemy zealotry, whereas he thinks his "killing liberals in the name of Christ" political ideology is being discredited as the mad rantings of a loony.

Calling a mental hospital over a fed prison leniency is debatable.

[Morris Schæffer]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/30/wo...ure/index.html

Al Qaeda plans discovered in a porn movie.

[Acapelli]

kid who was detained by the dea at a house party on 4/20 was left without food or water in a holding cell for 5 days

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...149758275.html

pretty horrifying

[Barty]

kid who was detained by the dea at a house party on 4/20 was left without food or water in a holding cell for 5 days

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...149758275.html

pretty horrifying

Jesus fucking fuck.

Those DEA agents who left him in there should be charged with attempted murder. Disgusting and disgraceful.

[Irish]

I read about that story on Raw Story yesterday, where it contained as few details & reeked of bullshit.

He was locked in a cell with a bag of meth? He hallucinated after only 3 days? He drank his own piss? I have trouble believing that.

Although I'm surprised one of those articles quotes a DEA source by name that supposedly issued an apology. That guy just fucked himself into a demotion, if not out of a job completely, and set up his agency to get hit for double damages in a civil suit.

[Milky Joe]

The fuck purpose would they (the DEA) have in making that story up? I'd like to see you thrown in a 5x10 cell for 5 days and see how you react.

[Irish]

The fuck purpose would they (the DEA) have in making that story up? I'd like to see you thrown in a 5x10 cell for 5 days and see how you react.

I'm not saying the entire story is untrue, but that facets of what this kid are saying smell like bullshit and these "articles" are woefully underreported.

Mostly, it comes off as positioning for a civil suit.

You don't hallucinate after a few days without human contact. Not even close. If people did then park rangers, fire watchers, and deep impact campers would all be going crazy in the woods on a regular basis.

You probably wouldn't be drink your own piss, either, but I guess that's a matter of taste (haha). Granted, this would be a stressful situation but presumably those cells are climate controlled. Which means a longer time towards dehydration.

We're also talking about a DEA office in a city that borders Mexico. They have no cameras on the cells? Even podunk towns with minimal funding have that. We're also left to believe that the DEA -- again in a big city on a major border crossing -- had no need for this space for an entire working week, ie: they didn't detain anyone else and, well, open the door.

As for the reporting, the natural question for me, the real gimme, is "Where did the meth come from?" Either you believe DEA agents left a detainee alone with drug evidence for any time at all, or the kid smuggled it into the office in his pants. And then snorted it because ... ?

I'm usually pretty quick to believe stories of government incompetence and malfeasance, but this "story" is light on facts and presents too many obvious, glaring questions.

[Sven]

You don't hallucinate after a few days without human contact. Not even close. If people did then park rangers, fire watchers, and deep impact campers would all be going crazy in the woods on a regular basis.

How on Earth did you conclude that it was the lack of human interaction that spawned the hallucinations? And not, say, the absence of water, food, light, or space? People start hallucinating after hours in the right conditions of weariness and confinement.

[Irish]

How on Earth did you conclude that it was the lack of human interaction that spawned the hallucinations?

From the context of the article linked above.

And not, say, the absence of water, food, light, or space? People start hallucinating after hours in the right conditions of weariness and confinement.

What the .. ? No they don't. The kid wasn't in some kind of Altered States sensory depravation tank. He was in a government building.

[number8]

This is pretty easy to confirm as bullshit or not:

A DEA employee rode with him to the hospital, where they paid for Chong’s visit.

He spent three days in the intensive care unit at Sharp Hospital and his kidneys were close to failing.

[Milky Joe]

I guess this is why Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib are still open. Climate controlled cells, lol.

Irish, oftentimes you're a moron. This is one of those times.

Also, no one said he snorted the meth (that was probably left there by the last occupant, if not planted). He probably ate it in desperation for some kind of nourishment.

[number8]

Anyway, who cares? People break down over different things. I'm sure there's a guy who started hallucinating after watching Celebrity Apprentice for 8 hours. Maybe he drank his own piss, maybe he didn't. Maybe he brought the meth himself.

The DEA still left him in a cell for 5 days without a charge with no food or water. That's enough of a clusterfuck there.

[Irish]

I guess this is why Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib are still open. Climate controlled cells, lol.

Irish, oftentimes you're a moron. This is one of those times.

Hey, Joe? Fuck you. How about you grow some balls and some brains and argue the facts instead of calling me names? Or is you position so weak that your only recourse is to resort to straight up insults?

How you can compare a DEA office, a big one in a major American city, to Gitmo or Abu, staggers belief.

Pro-tip: Being skeptical and questioning media and clearly one sided stories is never stupid.

[Milky Joe]

How you can miss the point so completely is what staggers my belief, as well as how you can take the side of the DEA here when they freely admitted how badly they fucked up. You also (as always) present absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support your own one-sided claims, just a lot of empty skepticism about how long it theoretically would take for someone to start hallucinating. Because I'm sure you have so much experience in such a situation. So fuck yourself, you incredible moron.

[amberlita]

The DEA still left him in a cell for 5 days without a charge with no food or water. That's enough of a clusterfuck there.

Right. Any way you slice it there was unacceptable neglect. But I can kind of see where Irish is coming from. I tend to approach these things with a lot of skepticism on the details because people are prone to exaggeration. But whether his kidneys were truly "close to failing" or he just had a bump in his creatinine to 2.5 that was reversible with fluids (sorry most of you might now know what that means) is impossible to know on a single report. I just don't fully trust the media at all anymore, especially when a portion of the story comes from his lawyer who may or may not be trying to woo the court of public opinion.

Nevertheless, 5 days is a long fucking time to go without food and water. I just don't understand how that could happen. Did he say there were people in neighboring cells? I wonder how close they were and how he could be passed over if people were seeing to the others.