Mad Men

[Qrazy]

As for the sexism, I didn't think much of it, because I don't think the misogyny displayed is that archaic. Most of what the men engage in on the show are the same type of sexual harassment still going on today. In fact, I think it's pretty cool that they're showing the early forms of women's sexual liberation. That's what I noticed, not the sexism.

Yikes, where do you live?

[number8]

Yikes, where do you live?

Tehran. Where do you live?

[Ezee E]

Haven't watched the show, but amctv.com is letting you create yourself as a Mad Man character.

[number8]

[trotchky]

edit: oh wait i skipped a bunch of steps by mistake



ok thats better

[Qrazy]

Tehran. Where do you live?

eye donut beleev u.

Canada.

[Mara]

You know, I'm a little bit sick of reading articles and responses to this show talking about Don and Betty's "loveless" marriage. I think that's a facile and condescending way to look at a complicated relationship. I think it also makes everyone feel better about his infidelities, if we can pretend he doesn't love Betty.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, same here.

Qrazy, are you planning on checking out the second season?

If I finally do not for a long while. I want to watch Rome, Oz, Kings and a bunch of others first.

[Philosophe_rouge]

You know, I'm a little bit sick of reading articles and responses to this show talking about Don and Betty's "loveless" marriage. I think that's a facile and condescending way to look at a complicated relationship. I think it also makes everyone feel better about his infidelities, if we can pretend he doesn't love Betty.

Agreed, there is a lot about his behavior that suggests that he truly loves and cares for her and his family. It obviously doesn't forgive his infidelities, but it certainly complicates them.

[Cult]

I just finished season 2, and I really think KF, Qrazy, and all other naysayers need to check it out.

I myself was uncomfortable with the misogyny in season 1, but a big part of that was because the show was otherwise so masculine, and the female characters didn't have much to do. In season 2, they're expanded upon in such compelling ways, you'd have to see it to believe it. The sexist actions committed by the men are treated much more maturely now--it's obvious the show thinks they're just as wrong as we do.

Aside from all that, it was just a brilliant, addictive piece of television that blows season 1 out of the water.

[Cult]

Just in time for season 3. The premiere episode of which is airing as we speak, I think.

Watching it now.

[Cult]

Did no one else catch it? It was a pretty good episode--nothing amazing, but the show has never really been an explosive, cliffhanger kind of program. Especially not at the beginning of seasons.

[

Show Spoiler

I didn't really like how Betty and Don seemed to be "fine" now, relationship-wise. I know the final shot of last season implied that they'd be giving things another go, but I still feel a bit cheated that everything seems back to normal as if nothing happened. It's still early to tell, though.

]

[Mara]

Oh, I thought Don catching Sal rounding third base was pretty shocking.

[megladon8]

So I just recently found out that Mad Men is a network TV series. I could have sworn it was ShowCase.

That means Christina Hendricks never reveals whether or not she actually has torpedoes, or just wears very form-enhancing outfits.

It is a scientific study that must be carried out, and since this show doesn't seem to agree with me, my interest has declined.

[Cult]

[

Show Spoiler

I don't really have a problem with Betty's attitude. I'm not sure where their relationship is really at but I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that Betty is willfully imagining a tranquil relationship for her own sake. Because it's really easier. The events of the second season likely haven't been forgotten. I think the idea of expecting, and raising, a child with a loving husband is very seductive. It's far more comfortable than facing the burden of being a wholly independent and questioning woman. I mean, she tried that out in the second season with mixed results (it was both liberating and dreary) and I think it brought her to a really lonely and uncertain place. Loving and trusting Don, even if it requires a touch of willful disavowal and repression, is probably the easier route for a woman who doesn't quite know how to be alone. Even if she still has her suspicions, she needs Don now more than ever.

And maybe there isn't any disavowal involved and she really and truly believes Don is going to make an effort. After all, that letter he sent her in the second season finale was quite moving, and I wouldn't underestimate its affect on her. Thus, perhaps she is able to both enjoy and believe in a happy relationship with Don. And if so, that's lucky for her, because the alternative would be so bleak and dismal, wouldn't it? Especially with a child on the way. I mean, it's certainly easier than being an indignant and lonely housewife separated from the comforting support of her husband. The idea of Don and Betty Draper is alluring, its Betty's crutch, and at this time in her life, she has to believe in it. Or she at least desperately wants to.

In a way, the premiere exemplifies one of Weiner's driving ideas: people don't change. Don regressed back into infidelity, and Betty has resumed a trusting position wherein she is still dependent on Don for her own happiness and well-being.

There is also the possibility that her happiness is predicated on her belief that she finally made a stand, she scared Don, and got him about as close to a confession as he's going to get. That's a victory in a way, and perhaps it has given her a sense of security and sure footing that the audience knows is actually quite tenuous.

]

[

Show Spoiler

I see all of those as possibilities, I just hope the show addresses it again and doesn't just drop the whole arc of them having problems. Not that I think it will, I'm just a little worried about how rosy everything seemed without even a slight hint that Betty was still wary. Anyhoo, I hope you're right and there's reasoning behind it.

]

Oh, I thought Don catching Sal rounding third base was pretty shocking.

Meh, it was a good moment and well-played, but not that shocking to me. It had to happen eventually, and Don catching him was probably one of the least scandalous ways it could go down (because Don is much more respectful and understanding than the other coworkers). Also, their discussion at the end made it clear that Don wasn't going to blackmail him or probably even bring it up again.

Now, it was a little shocking how far the show took the actual scene. I think it was more suggestive than any of the straight love scenes have ever been, and that's pretty daring!

[Mara]

Now, it was a little shocking how far the show took the actual scene. I think it was more suggestive than any of the straight love scenes have ever been, and that's pretty daring!

Yeah, it was pretty explicit. Especially for non-HBO, non-Showtime. I'd say it was roughly as explicit as that scene where Dan fingerbangs the comedian's wife.

[Cult]

You're right about it having to happen eventually but I definitely found it pretty shocking nonetheless. I suppose it was just me sympathizing with how devastating that must have been for Sal, I really couldn't help but share in his immediate despair. Incidentally, I had also, just minutes earlier, been wondering if the show would ever have Don find out about his secret.

Exactly, and as you said it had to be Don--which also contributed to it not being that shocking of a moment. :P But now we're just splitting hairs. I thought it worked perfectly and I'm glad it wasn't someone less forgiving to find Sal out. Just not technically shocking--though certainly an engaging arc, and one of the only really exciting ones presented in the episode.

I thought one of the most heartbreaking moments was in s2, when the foreign guy came out to everyone, and Cosgrove--the object of Sal's crush--says something like "I knew queers existed, I just don't want to work with them" and the following shot of Sal's expression.

I really wonder whether the show will ultimately have him outed and have his marriage and work life subsequently devastated. Or maybe they'll have him carry on in secret, maybe eventually coming out willingly as 60's America becomes more liberated. One of the things the show does so brilliantly is plants little seeds and then expands on them far into the future. It makes things all the more poignant and believable.

[Mara]

Next week I'm hoping for more Peggy and more Joan. But this was a strong opening.

[Mara]

Footnotes of Mad Men.

Interesting site giving more information on peripheral things from the show, like the art in Bert's office, Peggy's birth control, etc. Also includes era print ads.

[Amnesiac]

Footnotes of Mad Men.

Pretty cool.

[Mara]

I've been singing that stupid "Bye Bye Birdie" song for days. I don't even like that musical.

[Amnesiac]

I thought we were going to get some Pete/Peggy interaction this week. Guess not.

[Cult]

Loved Joan's little song. Yay for the female-centric episodes! I'm starting to like Jane more, too.

[megladon8]

This is a fantastic read.

Jack Nicholson writes and article about "Mad Men", and conducts an interview with January Jones.

[Mara]

I will bet anyone $10 that Jack hit that.