Sangre, cuchillos, y tetas --- Horror Film Discussion

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 01:55 AM

A Nightmare on Elm Street's classic status is well-deserved. Despite a few huge logical missteps, it remains disturbing and original to this day.

I really wish Freddy hadn't become a wise-cracking jokester, with kills aimed more at drawing laughs from the audience than scaring them. I love Dream Warriors as much as the next guy, but I wish that had been a novelty rather than a near-permanent direction for the series.

Maybe this is why New Nightmare is so freaking great. It makes Freddy scary again.

**Dead & Messed Up** · 06-09-2009, 02:40 AM

Quoting Rowland (view post)

I just happened across an mp3 of Dave Matthews' theme for Joshua, titled The Fly. It's a haunting little tune, makes me want to revisit the movie, which I found rather disturbing both as a surface horror picture, infused as it is with such disconcertingly discordant formal techniques, and for its dramatic implications, teeming with multifaceted subtexts that paint an incredibly sad portrait of a failed nuclear family. "You know, you don't have to love me." In all, a nearly brilliant subversion of the previous year's schlocky Omen remake.

I thought the film stylistically confident, and its characters frequently compelling, but the depths of Joshua's depravity didn't feel properly weighted against his motivations. I didn't want Omen-level implications by any stretch, but the ending of the film disappointed.

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Good song.

**Spun Lepton** · 06-09-2009, 02:40 AM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

Maybe this is why New Nightmare is so freaking great. It makes Freddy scary again.

While I do recognize that it's an improvement over the previous three or four Nightmare movies, I don't understand all the adulation for it. Having Freddy scary again doesn't make up for that fucking annoying kid, nor for the ridiculous scene where Nancy follows the trail of sleeping pills to Nightmare Land.

**Bosco B Thug** · 06-09-2009, 03:23 AM

Quoting Rowland (view post)

I just happened across an mp3 of Dave Matthews' theme for Joshua, titled The Fly. It's a haunting little tune, makes me want to revisit the movie, which I found rather disturbing both as a surface horror picture, infused as it is with such disconcertingly discordant formal techniques, and for its dramatic implications, teeming with multifaceted subtexts that paint an incredibly sad portrait of a failed nuclear family. "You know, you don't have to love me." In all, a nearly brilliant subversion of the previous year's schlocky Omen remake.

Agreed, although Joshua's problems also stood out further in my 2nd viewing. D&MU is right about this:

the depths of Joshua's depravity didn't feel properly weighted against his motivations

and the ending doesn't quite work as much the second time (but nevertheless, frickin' love that song). Lots of little stuff, but the film's certainly near-brilliant.

**Dead & Messed Up** · 06-09-2009, 04:23 AM

Oh, I watched C.H.U.D. for the first time yesterday, and it contains one of the most inexplicable moments I've seen in some time: when the wife pulls on her shower drain with a hanger...and blood sprays out...and when we cut back to her a minute later, she's just fine. No questions. No concern.

I didn't much care for the film. It was insufficiently stupid to function as cheese, much of that due to the unnecessary quality of John Heard's acting. And while it attempted to comment on New York living conditions, the creative team lacks the comparative wit of Cohen or the confidence of Sayles. So it's unfortunately saddled somewhere in between, simultaneously proficient and inept.

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 01:29 PM

Quoting Spun Lepton (view post)

While I do recognize that it's an improvement over the previous three or four Nightmare movies, I don't understand all the adulation for it. Having Freddy scary again doesn't make up for that fucking annoying kid, nor for the ridiculous scene where Nancy follows the trail of sleeping pills to Nightmare Land.

Yeah the kid's pretty terrible, but I can look past that.

Here's something similar to your not understanding the love New Nightmare gets...

I really, really don't understand why A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 2: Freddy's Revenge is so utterly loathed by so many. Especially back when I posted on RT, it wasn't uncommon for horror afficionados to list it as one of the WORST horror movies of all time, and THE worst sequel ever.

Seriously?

Not only would I rate part's 5 and 6 much lower than this one, but I'd even go so far as to say that this one's actually pretty good.

It continued the original's ability to up the ante in disturbing imagery, and aside from the scene where the kid's cleaning his room and dancing to terrible 80s pop music there's really nothing laughably bad about the movie - and afterall, the whole point of that scene is to laugh at him, anyways.

Also, the make-up work on Freddy was better here than it was at any other point in the series. He looked terrifying, especially with how they seem to have widened Roberty Englund's eyes to make him look quite demonic.

I just don't get why this one is hated so much.

**EvilShoe** · 06-09-2009, 01:34 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

I just don't get why this one is hated so much.

Homophobia?

**Grouchy** · 06-09-2009, 04:36 PM

Huh, sorry, but no. The second Freddy is one of the most hilariously inept movies I've ever seen. Not only the dancing scene, but every other dialogue being terrible and the weird decision to make the main character a closet homosexual who keeps finding himself in compromising situations... that stuff doesn't really help the Horror.

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 04:38 PM

At what point is it shown that he's a closet homosexual?

He's in love with a gorgeous red-head.

**Grouchy** · 06-09-2009, 04:40 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

At what point is it shown that he's a closet homosexual?

He's in love with a gorgeous red-head.

It's never stated, but it's obviously the whole point of the film and the real reason he keeps rejecting her. Come on, now. Think about the shower scene.

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 04:43 PM

Quoting Grouchy (view post)

It's never stated, but it's obviously the whole point of the film and the real reason he keeps rejecting her. Come on, now. Think about the shower scene.

I really don't see it at all. I think that's grasping at straws. Personally I don't think the film was "deep" enough to have an underlying message about homosexuality.

And I don't see what's so inept about the film. It's not like the dialogue in the original was wonderous, and I don't see it being any worse here.

None of your points have given me any more insight into the hatred towards this movie :P

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 10:55 PM

The Dream Warriors tonight!

**The Mike** · 06-09-2009, 10:56 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

The Dream Warriors tonight!

Still my favorite of the series (but I've only seen three of 'em).

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 11:01 PM

Quoting The Mike (view post)

Still my favorite of the series (but I've only seen three of 'em).

...wait.

Weren't you a member of the Axis?

Like, how the heck can this be?

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But seriously, get on that, dude! New Nightmare is the bees knees...the cats pajamas...the shiznit in the hiznit!!

**Spun Lepton** · 06-09-2009, 11:12 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

I really don't see it at all. I think that's grasping at straws. Personally I don't think the film was "deep" enough to have an underlying message about homosexuality.

Jack Sholder readily admits the movie is filled with closet-homosexual imagery.

**D_Davis** · 06-09-2009, 11:18 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

I really don't see it at all. I think that's grasping at straws. Personally I don't think the film was "deep" enough to have an underlying message about homosexuality.

That's actually a very common way of looking at the film:

http://www.joblo.com/arrow/reviews.php?id=445
http://www.fatally-yours.com/horror-...eddys-revenge/
http://www.freddyinspace.com/2008/08...-2-so-gay.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Night...n_Elm_Street_2

Film commentators often remark on the film's perceived homoerotic theme. Some people have argued that a subtext exists about Jesse's alleged repressed homosexuality (never clarified in the movie), and they point out the encounter that he has with his gym teacher in a bisexual S&M leather bar, and his flight to a male friend's house after an aborted attempt of making out at his girlfriend's pool party.[2][3] During the latter scene, Jesse, shirt unbuttoned, states that he's scared that "something is trying to get inside my body"; his shirtless friend replies, "Yeah, and she's female and waiting for you in the cabana, and you want to sleep with me." Director Jack Sholder claims that he never intended for there to be a gay subtext to the film, but has subsequently admitted that he does see it in the film, according to the "Nightmare Encyclopedia" included on the DVD box set. Mark Patton, the actor who portrays Jesse, is in fact gay.

It also played at the Seattle Gay and Lesbian film fest:

http://seattlelgff.bside.com/2008/fi...eattlelgff2008

Could this be the gayest horror movie ever made…by accident? The filmmakers have denied ever having a gay agenda when creating this first sequel in the long-running Freddy Krueger franchise. But when you watch this campy horror classic from a homo perspective, it’s hard to miss all the subtext—intended or otherwise.

**Dead & Messed Up** · 06-09-2009, 11:37 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

...wait.

Weren't you a member of the Axis?

Like, how the heck can this be?

I've only seen three of the Nightmare series, three of the Jason films, and four of the Halloween films. Of those, I could've happily skipped seven of them.

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 11:45 PM

Still all of the things in the quoted paragraph you posted, D, have simple non-homosexual explanations. At least as far as Jesse is concerned.

Freddy inhabits Jesse's body and is gaining energy by helping Jesse to kill those who have wronged him (as we see in the film). He goes to the S&M club in search of the teacher, because earlier in the film we are told by another character that said teacher frequents this club. So it's not like Jesse went there of his own accord and just happened to run into him.

Also,it's really grasping at straws there with the "goes to a male friend's house with shirt unbuttoned". This is such a vague allusion to homosexuality, it strikes me as something one wouldn't see unless they were actively looking for it.

Might as well say John McClane is gay, because at the end of Die Hard he's wearing a white muscle shirt and talking with Alan Rickman, both of them holding guns (phallic symbolism!) and McClane's feet are injured, alluding to the idea that he's "walking on hot coals" by exposing his homosexual intentions via the muscle shirt and gun.

I just can't buy it. Sounds to me like stuff that was thought up because the lead actor is gay, and it got peoples' minds working the wrong way while watching the movie.

**D_Davis** · 06-09-2009, 11:47 PM

Sometimes, when the consensus says one thing, it's because it is.

It has long been commented on that the film contains some homoerotic undertones.

That's all.

I thought so too the first time I watched it, and I just found out that dude was gay today.

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 11:50 PM

Quoting Daniel Davis (view post)

Sometimes, when the consensus says one thing, it's because it is.

So I'm not allowed to see it another way?

Weren't you one of the people who scolded me for insisting on one interpretation of American Psycho some time back?

**The Mike** · 06-09-2009, 11:52 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

...wait.

Weren't you a member of the Axis?

Like, how the heck can this be?

[

Show Spoiler

]

But seriously, get on that, dude! New Nightmare is the bees knees...the cats pajamas...the shiznit in the hiznit!!

I've seen 1, 3, and New Nightmare. Fan of each, but I've avoided the rest of the series so far. But, the fact one is directed by Renny Harlin means I must see them sooner or later.

**The Mike** · 06-09-2009, 11:53 PM

Shit, Jack Sholder directed one too? I will fix my wrongness ASAP.

**D_Davis** · 06-09-2009, 11:53 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

So I'm not allowed to not see it another way?

Weren't you one of the people who scolded me for insisting on one interpretation of American Psycho some time back?

Not me.

Of course you can see it another way, but to argue that its not there when so many other people clearly see it, or to say that you don't see it at all strikes me as being a little obtuse.

**megladon8** · 06-09-2009, 11:54 PM

Quoting The Mike (view post)

I've seen 1, 3, and New Nightmare. Fan of each, but I've avoided the rest of the series so far. But, the fact one is directed by Renny Harlin means I must see them sooner or later.

Well you've basically seen the best of the series, then, but I still recommend seeing them all...just because

Have you seen Freddy vs. Jason? Great movie, that one is.

**The Mike** · 06-09-2009, 11:54 PM

Quoting megladon8 (view post)

Have you seen Freddy vs. Jason? Great movie, that one is.

Oh yeah, I forgot to count that one. For some reason, I count it more in the F13 branch than the ANOES branch.

Thread: Sangre, cuchillos, y tetas --- Horror Film Discussion

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