Braden shares some comic book favorites

[Melville]

Finished "Ice Haven".

A poignantly sad moment for Charles raised it up a few notches for me, but I still wasn't in love with it. I suppose in Clowes' attempt to create a real, vibrant town, there certainly have to be some people you don't like...but not liking a character, and not wanting to read about them at all are two different things. I felt the latter towards several of them.

I also didn't like Clowes' random descents into intellectualism, where he suddenly increases his vocabulary to a point where he seems to be trying to impress scholars more than he is trying to tell a story.

Anyways, it was pretty good, nothing great. I'd like to read more of Clowes' work, but I'm not in any rush to do so.

Yeah, you probably won't really like anything by Clowes (though I hope you appreciated his mastery of his craft). His tone is almost clinical; he studies his characters rather than trying to get you to relate to them. That's especially true in Ice Haven, where the emphasis is on creating a tight narrative structure composed of birds-eye-views of the town's inhabitants. Ghost World fleshes out its characters much more, and it does a good job of being critical of them while still sympathizing with them, but I doubt you'd make it past your loathing for the type of people it deals with. David Boring might appeal to you more.

I'm curious about the "random descents into intellectualism" that you mentioned. I don't remember anything like that.

[megladon8]

Yeah, you probably won't really like anything by Clowes (though I hope you appreciated his mastery of his craft). His tone is almost clinical; he studies his characters rather than trying to get you to relate to them. That's especially true in Ice Haven, where the emphasis is on creating a tight narrative structure composed of birds-eye-views of the town's inhabitants. Ghost World fleshes out its characters much more, and it does a good job of being critical of them while still sympathizing with them, but I doubt you'd make it past your loathing for the type of people it deals with. David Boring might appeal to you more.

Oh he definitely has an incredible grasp of the comic book form, and I adore his artwork.

Really, the writing is brilliant, and I loved the story...but I just found too many of the characters to be loathsome individuals.

I wanted to know more about the little boy who went missing, but so little was said about him. Though, perhaps, that in itself says all that needs to be said.

I'm curious about the "random descents into intellectualism" that you mentioned. I don't remember anything like that.

The writing was quite conversational, until every few chapters Charles would randomly begin soliloquizing to his brother these gross philosophical ideas. I felt that the story itself communicated some wonderful ideas, and this was unnecessary and out of place.

Also the very end chapter with the comic book critic does the same thing. He comes in at the end to rant about the philosophy behind critiquing, and also to pimp out Clowes' other books.

[Melville]

The writing was quite conversational, until every few chapters Charles would randomly begin soliloquizing to his brother these gross philosophical ideas. I felt that the story itself communicated some wonderful ideas, and this was unnecessary and out of place.

Also the very end chapter with the comic book critic does the same thing. He comes in at the end to rant about the philosophy behind critiquing, and also to pimp out Clowes' other books.

But both of those sections are meant to be ironic. The scenes with Charles reveal his character type (the tortured, self-aggrandizing intellectual), while they point out the silliness of that type (all he really wants is to get the girl...not to mention the fact that he's a little kid; there's a reason that his scenes are drawn in a more cartoony style than the "real" parts of the book). The end is a parody of comic book critics. I thought both were hilarious.

[megladon8]

I understood the purpose of both, I just found it still felt a little out of place.

I admit, my heart totally broke with that final scene with Charles...

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Show Spoiler

When Violet told him she hopes she marries someone "just like him" someday.

]

That itself is one of the best comic book moments I've encountered in, well, maybe ever.

[Melville]

I understood the purpose of both, I just found it still felt a little out of place.

I don't know. There's also a story about a blue bunny referencing Cagney and another about a despairing caveman. All of these "extraneous" pieces add to the layers in the book. The story provides a portrait of the town, but it realizes that the town, more than just being composed of the characters in it, is a set of concepts and reference, and the story of the town, more than just detailing the actions of its inhabitants, contains its own telling. The layers of irony and intertextual (and intratextual) references and digressions add to the sense of viewing an entire world; they incorporate the author as well as the reader's sensibilities into the story.

I admit, my heart totally broke with that final scene with Charles...

[

Show Spoiler

When Violet told him she hopes she marries someone "just like him" someday.

]

That itself is one of the best comic book moments I've encountered in, well, maybe ever.

Yeah, I especially like how the art is extra cartoony in the picture of Charles, alone, looking at the reader in despair. It perfectly incorporates so much of what's come before it into itself. Devastating stuff.

[megladon8]

I actually felt the stories of the caveman and the blue bunny fit in perfectly. They were great metatextual pieces that both echoed and enhanced certain very important emotions in the story, which in some cases were blatant and others were boiling subtley under the surface.

The more I think about the book, the more I think I loved it.

Like I said about 2 or 3 posts back, my hating some of the characters is very much part of Clowes' creation of a fictional town. When you think of a real town, not everyone there is a wonderful, happy, sympathic character whom you'd love to spend time with. There are lots of self-centered assholes in the world, so he was reflecting that realistically in his portrayal of this little microcosm.

I think I'll bump my rating up.

[number8]

I don't like most of Clowes. I think Eightball is my favorite from him, but I suppose that's predictable.

[megladon8]

Got these for Christmas...

[EyesWideOpen]

I was really disappointed in the Joker, great art but the story is crap. The complete Persepolis is great, my wife got that for me last christmas.

[Melville]

I don't like most of Clowes. I think Eightball is my favorite from him, but I suppose that's predictable.

?

Eightball contains almost everything he's published.

[number8]

?

Eightball contains almost everything he's published.

Sorry, no, I meant the Death Ray strip. I kept calling it Eightball because I actually own the Eightball issue it appears in.

[Melville]

Sorry, no, I meant the Death Ray strip. I kept calling it Eightball because I actually own the Eightball issue it appears in.

Oh, then that is a predictable choice. It's probably my least favorite of Clowes' stories, but it's still damn good. The basic concept (deconstructing the superhero genre, revealing it as a juvenile power fantasy) seemed a bit cliched, but Clowes makes it work by actually toning down the irony of the previous issue (Ice Haven) and playing the story relatively straight.

[megladon8]

I got these today at Chapters for 30% off. Both hardcover.