I have seen Duelle and it's great.Quoting Grouchy (view post)
I have seen Duelle and it's great.Quoting Grouchy (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
One thing I do is try to explain to myself why a movie is on the list in the first place. If one argument appears more compelling, the movie gets bumped. Even though it's against my better nature, I feel obligated incorporate historical significance *if* the films are truly deadlocked. Then of course there's a "live with yourself" test. Duck Soup over Singin' in the Rain. Both are deadlocked in many ways, but I could not live with myself if I did not place Duck Soup higher.Quoting Irish (view post)
Great list, btw. I haven't seen A Touch of Zen, The Quiet Man or Memories of Murder. Looking forward to checking them out soon, hopefully.
Stuff I've Watched out of *****
The Last Duel - ***
Only Murders in the Building: **
Squid Games: **.5
Didn't realize Irish loved Memories of Murder so much.
That's pretty turnt.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
While Memories isn't quite 100% on the same level, it still makes for a good unofficial companion piece to Zodiac, if that intrigues you.Quoting quido8_5 (view post)
I loved Zodiac, but Memories of Murder is much better.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Great advice, thank you!Quoting quido8_5 (view post)
Post about 'em if you do. Be curious what you think.
(If 1 or 2 people watch "The Quiet Man," this whole effort will have been worth it, haha.)
I can't say that I especially love either film, but of the two, Memories of Murder is both tighter as storytelling and better directed.
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
The Quiet Man is an interesting movie. Not sure how much it succeeds as a romance (when the countryside and the wind machines do so much of the heavy lifting), but as a study of men, it's kind of wonderful. Love the moment when daughter becomes woman of the house and father becomes immediately deferential. Goes without saying that the landscapes are lovely. I've been to Ireland once when I was young, with family. Would like to go back now that I'm an adult.
"How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home wine-making course and forgot how to drive?"
--Homer
Eh, I'd say that Memories suffers a bit from the slightly awkward contrast between its style of direction, and the way that its plot lays a whodunit-like series of misleading clues and red herring suspects that were obviously invented for the film; I mean, it doesn't really bother me when a "historical" film like The Untouchables makes up a bunch of obvious BS that didn't happen in order to jazz its story, because it's clear from the operatic, over-the-top style that De Palma directed it in from frame one that it was always meant to be taken far more as cinematic "entertainment" than any sort of an accurate history lesson, but when you fabricate elements for a grittier, more realistic-feeling police procedural, then it sticks out more. Still, it's a testament to the strength of Bong and his team's work on that film that it was still a very good film anyway (and a better one than The Untouchables IMO, for the record), so it's not anywhere near a deal-breaker for me.Quoting baby doll (view post)
This may say more about my expectations than the film per se, but I never saw Memories of Murder as especially realistic, at least no more so than most Hollywood films purporting to be based on true stories (including Zodiac). The film's desaturated colour scheme--doubtlessly influenced by Se7en--seemed to me as much a generic staple as the city cop/country cop opposition rather than an attempt at realism (I've been to South Korea and can attest they do in fact have colour there).Quoting StuSmallz (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
I'll probably watch Memories of murder again. The dropkicks annoyed me enough to shut it off the first time I watched it. That was 10+ years ago, so I forget my mindset.
I can barely remember anything about Mother. Parasite is easily my favourite of Bong's movies, although I still haven't seen Barking Dog Never Bites or Okja.
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
BooooQuoting Ezee E (view post)
Midnight Run (1988) - 9
The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
Sisters (1973) - 6.5
Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5
No idea where to post this at so I'm posting it here. I love Tubi and this is great news although I'm amazed it is still free:
Tubi Partners with Drafthouse and Giant Pictures for Exclusive Streaming of Nearly 40 Titles
Blog!
And it's happened once again
I'll turn to a friend
Someone that understands
And sees through the master plan
But everybody's gone
And I've been here for too long
To face this on my own
Well, I guess this is growing up
Escape From L.A. is a trip.
I mean, it's pretty bad...but I also get what they were going for with a lot of it. Could maybe even be argued this is one of Carpenter's "deeper" films thematically, as it cuts down Hollywood and celebrity culture.
The surfing scene is gloriously awful. Though to be fair, "gloriously awful" could be used to describe much of what's on display here.
Wasn't great, but wasn't even close to being as bad as I thought it was going to be.
"All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"
"Rick...it's a flamethrower."
Going back to Bong for a minute, the reason I've never regarded him as a great filmmaker--despite my admiration for Memories of Murder, The Host, and above all Parasite--is his abject reliance on genre conventions, which precludes him from making any fresh observations about his subjects (a trait he shares with Park Chan-wook). In other words, originality in his films is largely a matter of mixing and matching pre-digested genre conventions rather than doing anything really new. As entertaining as Parasite is, it's still far less substantial and memorable than any of the five films Bong has cited as inspirations because he's incapable of functioning independently of his influences.
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
I don't think this premise of your argument holds true at all. (Not in relation to Bong, but in terms of genre films in general; of course genre films can make fresh observations on their subjects.... it doesn't make sense to me to claim otherwise.)Quoting baby doll (view post)
Last 10 Movies Seen
(90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)
Run (2020) 64
The Whistlers (2019) 55
Pawn (2020) 62
Matilda (1996) 37
The Town that Dreaded Sundown (1976) 61
Moby Dick (2011) 50
Soul (2020) 64
Heroic Duo (2003) 55
A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
As Tears Go By (1988) 65
Stuff at Letterboxd
Listening Habits at LastFM
I probably could've made this clearer in my original post but my argument isn't that genre conventions in themselves preclude fresh observations. In fact, I don't think any kind of artistic production is possible without conventions. However, there's a profound difference between films that use genre conventions as a vehicle for discovery (e.g., Chabrol's applications of general principles derived from Hitchcock and Lang in Que la bête meure and La Cérémonie) and Bong's inability or unwillingness to think beyond his sources.Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
Last edited by baby doll; 05-08-2021 at 02:39 AM.
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
What counts as a "fresh observation"? (And, hell, what counts as the "subject," in this case?)Quoting baby doll (view post)
As I said earlier, I don't think it's possible to make a film without conventions--for example, in narrative films, a pool of stock characters and situations that different filmmakers can draw from. In La Cérémonie and Parasite, the underlying situation is basically the same: the working class protagonists' resentment of their wealthy employers leads to violence (this is what I meant by subject). The difference is that the characters in Chabrol's film have a specificity that Bong's characters lack: in the history of cinema, there has never been a resentful maid, a batty mail woman, or a smug bourgeois family quite like those in Chabrol's film (this is what I meant by fresh observation), whereas the characters in Bong's film are familiar generic types. (It's characteristic of Bong's taste for iconographic shorthand that the father dons a Native American headdress just prior to "going savage" on the rich family.) In other words, Bong's originality as a filmmaker consists in artfully combining clichés rather than transcending them.Quoting Irish (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
I watched "La Cérémonie" last night, and wouldn't have seen it otherwise, so I appreciate the mention. Good movie. Not sure about the ending.Quoting baby doll (view post)
There are, as you said, parallels between it and "Parasite," but I think each film's overall approach is so wildly different it's hard to critique one based on the other.
Bong wrote generic types because he's more interested in overall narrative effect --- specifically, he always seems to want to floor the audience with his endings. (I suspect he starts with a theme and a conclusion and writes from there).
Chabrol took real life events (and a play by Jean Genet, ffs, talk about a pedigree) and fashioned a character driven drama that sought to explain the inexplicable.
I think Chabrol's film is closer in intent to "Heavenly Creatures," "Compulsion," and "In Cold Blood" than it is to "Parasite."
I haven't seen as many films by Park, but I get the same vibes from him as I do Bong. When people talk about "Oldboy," they don't talk about the characters. They talk about the big reveal, because it's a doozy, and they talk about that one incredible tracking shot. I'm not convinced their focus is an indictment of the film overall, though, that somehow renders it a lesser work.
When it comes to genre, I think both approaches can work, eg: plot versus character, Raymond Chandler vs Agatha Christies, the adaptations of "The Big Sleep" (1946) and "Murder on the Orient Express" (1974), Larry McMurtry vs Louis L'amour, Raphael Sabatini vs Sax Rohmer, "Law and Order" vs "Homicide: Life on the Streets" and "The Wire."
I agree that Bong and Park are more interested in plot than character, and that this approach can not only work but has some positive artistic consequences: e.g., generic types have an instant legibility that helps to keep the action moving. The downside is that the narrative is less emotionally involving because one doesn't believe as deeply in the characters, especially in films like Oldboy, Lady Vengeance, and Snowpiercer, where narrative and tonal continuity go out the window for the sake of momentary effect. (Oldboy in particular begins promisingly and then rapidly goes downhill as the glut of outrageous plot twists reaches a point of diminishing returns fairly early on.) Moreover, I think there's a distinction to be made between innovators like Wilkie Collins and Dashiell Hammett, who do something new by revising inherited genre conventions, and less original artists like Bong and Park who merely synthesize various off-the-shelf elements.Quoting Irish (view post)
Just because...
The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild
The last book I read was...
The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain
The (New) World
I dunno if that's true, really? At least for me. Maybe because we're talking a different level of engagement. It's hard for me to draw sharp lines, or judge whether engagement is due to detailed characters or something else (plot, celebrity, performance, visuals, themes, etc).Quoting baby doll (view post)
Recent examples: I became extremely wrapped up in stuff like "The Hanging Tree" (Gary Cooper western), "Walking Tall" (a trashy 70s shitkicker movie), and "Poldark" (a 19th century bodice-ripping mini-series) but I don't know if I'd quantify my reaction as emotional engagement. Maybe I need you to define what you mean there.
But I mention them because they had good characters and better performances --- similar in my thinking to "La Cérémonie," which I don't think would work nearly as well without Huppert.
I suppose that depends on the level of innovation and when it was made (like, who's reading Wilkie Collins in the 21st century?).Quoting baby doll (view post)
But are you saying Chabrol innovated with "La Cérémonie"? It's a better film than "Parasite," sure, but innovative?
Going back a bit, this is true of Huppert's character --- hers is by far the most detailed character --- but it isn't quite true of the others. I think if I dug around, I could find a few cinematic snobs who could best Georges and Catherine Lelievre (somebody in "Rules of the Game," maybe?).Quoting baby doll (view post)
Maaaaaaan some of the more ... interesting ahem interpretations of "Memories of Murder" had me worried so I just rewatched and ... nope. Nothing to be concerned about. Still 10/10 all-star. What a great f'ing movie.