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Thread: 28 Film Discussion Threads Later

  1. #68726
    Some Gen-X icons:

    Kurt Cobain (b. 1964)
    Claire Daines (b. 1979)
    Bret Easton Ellis (b. 1964)
    Nigel Farage (b. 1964)
    Courtney Love (b. 1964)
    River Phoenix (b. 1970)
    Keanu Reeves (b. 1964)
    Winona Ryder (b. 1971)
    Paul Ryan (b. 1970)
    Tupac Shakur (b. 1971)
    Eddie Vedder (b. 1964)
    Last edited by baby doll; 11-13-2019 at 12:59 AM.
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    Selected Stories by Katherine Mansfield


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  2. #68727
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Also they survived the great depression right before that.
    Point. Yeah I may not agree with all the older gens, but I wouldn't say shit to that gen. Holy shit.

  3. #68728
    - - - - - Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Some Gen-X icons:

    Kurt Cobain (b. 1964)
    Claire Daines (b. 1979)
    Bret Easton Ellis (b. 1964)
    Nigel Farage (b. 1964)
    Courtney Love (b. 1964)
    River Phoenix (b. 1970)
    Keanu Reeves (b. 1964)
    Winona Ryder (b. 1971)
    Paul Ryan (b. 1970)
    Tupac Shakur (b. 1971)
    Eddie Vedder (b. 1964)
    WTF

    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    I wouldn't say shit to that gen
    tbf you couldn't even if you wanted to --- most of them are dead

  4. #68729
    good for health Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    tbf you couldn't even if you wanted to --- most of them are dead
    How dare you point out my privilege.

  5. #68730
    MadMan After Hours MadMan's Avatar
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    Boomers really screwed up everything after the Greatest Generation survived the Depression and WW2.
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  6. #68731
    Moderator TGM's Avatar
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    Love how this just got completely and immediately ignored, and continues to do so...

  7. #68732
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    I just got home from Sátántangó and still trying to put my thoughts and feelings about it into words. So for now, all I will say is this:

    I am forever changed.
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    I Lost My Body (Clapin, 2019) 4
    Frozen 2 (Buck/Lee, 2019) 3
    Honey Boy (Har'el, 2019) 4.5
    Knives Out (Johnson, 2019) 4.5
    1917 (Mendes, 2019) 4.5
    Krisha (Shults, 2015) 4
    Uncut Gems (Safdies, 2019) TBA Wednesday

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  8. #68733
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Okay so basically I went into Sátántangó hoping to learn something about the style of ‘slow cinema’, and got all that and then some. Tarr’s trademark long takes, black-and-white cinematography and haunting sound design create an ominous tone and chilling atmosphere that leaves room for the audience to ponder over storytelling motifs that parallels its characters to animals, and meditate over how they each process time as they wait with despair and uncertainty for their unreliable prophet to return to their village, often times sauntering from shot to shot like spectres rather than human beings. Images of the Doctor running through the woods at night underneath falling rain screaming for Estike, and immersive wide shots of characters walking toward the horizon as ambient wind blows around them remain seared into my brain, and leave me contemplating the film’s ideas about the monstrousness of artistry, self-destruction, blind loyalism, dictatorship, and the absence of governance right here and now, to the point where I’m shaken to the core. Sátántangó is one of the best films I’ve ever seen, and boasts one of the most visceral, singular movie-watching experiences I’ve ever had. I cannot thank those who encouraged me enough for talking me into seeing this.
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    I Lost My Body (Clapin, 2019) 4
    Frozen 2 (Buck/Lee, 2019) 3
    Honey Boy (Har'el, 2019) 4.5
    Knives Out (Johnson, 2019) 4.5
    1917 (Mendes, 2019) 4.5
    Krisha (Shults, 2015) 4
    Uncut Gems (Safdies, 2019) TBA Wednesday

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  9. #68734
    Cinematographer StanleyK's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ivan Drago (view post)
    I just got home from Sátántangó and still trying to put my thoughts and feelings about it into words. So for now, all I will say is this:

    I am forever changed.
    Be honest, did you stay fully awake for the entire duration of the film?

  10. #68735
    Quote Quoting StanleyK (view post)
    Be honest, did you stay fully awake for the entire duration of the film?
    I've seen the film several times and never had trouble staying awake.
    Just because...
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    Selected Stories by Katherine Mansfield


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  11. #68736
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    How many breaks were there during the viewing?

  12. #68737
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting StanleyK (view post)
    Be honest, did you stay fully awake for the entire duration of the film?
    I did! And there were two breaks; one every 2 1/2 hours.
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    I Lost My Body (Clapin, 2019) 4
    Frozen 2 (Buck/Lee, 2019) 3
    Honey Boy (Har'el, 2019) 4.5
    Knives Out (Johnson, 2019) 4.5
    1917 (Mendes, 2019) 4.5
    Krisha (Shults, 2015) 4
    Uncut Gems (Safdies, 2019) TBA Wednesday

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  13. #68738
    Cinematographer StanleyK's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Ivan Drago (view post)
    I did! And there were two breaks; one every 2 1/2 hours.
    Kudos, I watched a screening with two breaks as well and even with the excellence of the film I started to kinda doze off towards the end lol. I think when I eventually rewatch I'll split over a few days.

  14. #68739
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting StanleyK (view post)
    Kudos, I watched a screening with two breaks as well and even with the excellence of the film I started to kinda doze off towards the end lol. I think when I eventually rewatch I'll split over a few days.
    It definitely dragged for the third-to-last and the penultimate chapter. But THEN....

    [
    ]
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    I Lost My Body (Clapin, 2019) 4
    Frozen 2 (Buck/Lee, 2019) 3
    Honey Boy (Har'el, 2019) 4.5
    Knives Out (Johnson, 2019) 4.5
    1917 (Mendes, 2019) 4.5
    Krisha (Shults, 2015) 4
    Uncut Gems (Safdies, 2019) TBA Wednesday

    Fox Force Five News

  15. #68740
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    Is it pretty much only available to be seen when it pops up for a showing here and there?

    A search for DVD / BR copies yielded only non-R1 and/or OOP copies for extravagant prices.

  16. #68741
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    The Irishman opened in only one theater in all of Buenos Aires - one that's far, far away from where I live and work and only has two showings some days of the week. Most theater chains and owners simply refused to show it because it opens on Netflix next week.

    I'm still going, of course. I don't know how many more new Scorsese films I'll get to watch on the big screen.

  17. #68742
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    By the way, has anyone here commented on this yet? Mark Ruffalo proposing a national film endowment to address Scorsese's Marvel problem. I think many yanks would consider this something akin to the dreaded Red Scare, but it's the best take I've read on the subject so far.

  18. #68743
    the maker of my own evil Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting megladon8 (view post)
    Is it pretty much only available to be seen when it pops up for a showing here and there?

    A search for DVD / BR copies yielded only non-R1 and/or OOP copies for extravagant prices.
    It's going to be released on blu-ray early next year after the 4K restoration finishes its theatrical run. I'm buying it for sure.
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    I Lost My Body (Clapin, 2019) 4
    Frozen 2 (Buck/Lee, 2019) 3
    Honey Boy (Har'el, 2019) 4.5
    Knives Out (Johnson, 2019) 4.5
    1917 (Mendes, 2019) 4.5
    Krisha (Shults, 2015) 4
    Uncut Gems (Safdies, 2019) TBA Wednesday

    Fox Force Five News

  19. #68744
    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    By the way, has anyone here commented on this yet? Mark Ruffalo proposing a national film endowment to address Scorsese's Marvel problem. I think many yanks would consider this something akin to the dreaded Red Scare, but it's the best take I've read on the subject so far.
    The Red is what we need. The film subsidies behind the Iron Curtain produced some of the most fascinating and some of the most unusual films ever made. The Polish system in particular was quite interesting. There are better articles on the internet to read about it, but if I recall correctly they created film units consisting of directors, cinematographers, etc. that were essentially entirely self-directed. Their sole responsibility was to make films, not make a specific type of film. This birthed Kieslowski, Zulawski, etc. The Czech system produced an insane amount of great films in a short period, and the Soviet system gave insane budgets to War and Peace as well as to Solaris, and gave money to German and Sokurov and others to make totally uncommercial films. From a capitalist perspective, the Brits birthed both Jarman and Greenaway through public endowments. Red is the color of great, daring art!

    Sure, the Soviets banned a lot of great art, but Ruffalo was in Margaret so...

  20. #68745
    Quote Quoting PURPLE (view post)
    The Red is what we need. The film subsidies behind the Iron Curtain produced some of the most fascinating and some of the most unusual films ever made. The Polish system in particular was quite interesting. There are better articles on the internet to read about it, but if I recall correctly they created film units consisting of directors, cinematographers, etc. that were essentially entirely self-directed. Their sole responsibility was to make films, not make a specific type of film. This birthed Kieslowski, Zulawski, etc. The Czech system produced an insane amount of great films in a short period, and the Soviet system gave insane budgets to War and Peace as well as to Solaris, and gave money to German and Sokurov and others to make totally uncommercial films. From a capitalist perspective, the Brits birthed both Jarman and Greenaway through public endowments. Red is the color of great, daring art!

    Sure, the Soviets banned a lot of great art, but Ruffalo was in Margaret so...
    As much as I admire Wajda's Ashes and Diamonds, Kawalerowicz's Mother Joan of the Angels, and Zanussi's Illumination, I'm not sure I'd want to live in communist Poland (or, for that matter, Thatcher-era England).

    In any case, the premise that state-subsidized filmmaking automatically leads to aesthetically freewheeling masterpieces strikes me as dubious at best. Canada's National Film Board is hardly a hotbed of avant-garde experimentation, and most of the Eastern Bloc films you cite appeared during periods of relative liberalization (e.g., the Prague Spring produced some great films in a short period, but the key phrase here is "short period").

    Furthermore, one could point out that the masterpieces of the Japanese New Wave, which were contemporary with the Czech, Polish, and Russian films you cite, were made within a purely capitalistic system: Imamura, Oshima, Shinoda, and Yoshida all got their start as contract directors for vertically integrated studios, and even after forming independent production companies and partnering with the ATG distribution company, their careers were still completely at the mercy of the free market.

    Also, I'm curious how your enthusiasm for socialist art squares with your loudly professed belief in Romantic individualism. There's nothing more bourgeois than the idea of the artist as a uniquely creative individual (as opposed to an ordinary labourer, which is how Dziga Vertov saw his man with a movie camera), and the Soviet filmmaker who is most associated with this Romantic conception of the artist, Tarkovsky, died in exile.
    Last edited by baby doll; 11-23-2019 at 07:54 PM.
    Just because...
    Touch Me Not (Adina Pintilie, 2018) warm
    Madame Hyde (Serge Bozon, 2017) mild
    O Fantasma (Joăo Pedro Rodrigues, 2000) warm

    The last book I read was...
    Selected Stories by Katherine Mansfield


    The (New) World

  21. #68746
    I've been thinking some about the overall concept of subtlety in film lately, and how, in my experience, most people in the serious cinephile community (at least, the ones that are serious enough to post in-depth discussions on film forums) tend to prefer a "less is more" approach when it comes to cinematic storytelling, seeing as how I've read far, FAR more criticism in my time directed at films for trying to hit us too hard over the collective head with super-obvious visual representations of themes, too much reliance on overly expository dialogue (as much as I love him otherwise, Nolan, anyone?), or characterizations that are far too broad, unrealistic, and dumbed down for ease of mass consumption, and I've certainly seen a lot more complaining about those flaws than I've seen criticism for filmmakers understating elements in their films, as that usually tends to be welcomed. And, to be fair, I'm generally of that same mind, as I usually prefer a "less is more" approach to film, one that's as subtle as possible while still retaining a maximum effective impact, but not all the time, since, as always, there are certain exceptions to that "rule", which I can see when comparing the various Statue Of Liberty shots in the first two Godfathers:





    Taking a look at the shot in "leave the gun, take the cannoli" scene the original film, I have to say that, while certainly not a bad piece of cinematography (did that film actually have any?), the contrast of the bloodiness of gangland execution in the midground with the ideals represented by Statue in the back still strikes me like the film is trying to be too "clever" about fitting in some visual irony, and the juxtaposition honestly feels somewhat amateur-ish to me. I feel like the shot would've worked better without the Statue, as you'd still have the contrast of the field of wheat swaying peacefully in the foreground (and behind the car as well), placed against a guy getting his brains blown out, and, while the shot certainly reinforces the film's theme of shining a light on the dark side of the American dream, it doesn't strike me as any more effective or appropriate than the much-derided "SuperJesus" shot in Man Of Steel, and it sticks out as the foremost representation of my main complaint with The Godfather feeling like it was trying to put on the skin of a "great" film, rather than letting that greatness occur more naturally. And the shot's not even that subtle anyway, as the camera lingers on it for far too long for anyone to not notice the Statue back there, so it strikes me as neither hot nor cold, but the proverbial "lukewarm", and it either should've been underplayed more (either by cutting it down, cutting it out completely, or reshooting or editing it so that the Statue isn't in the shot at the same time as the actual murder), or just gone all the way, so to speak, like the Statue shot in Part II:





    Of course, this shot isn't "subtle" in its symbolism at all, as, even before Vito walks into the shot, we can still see it in the window, looming larger even in reflection than it did in the original, and when Vito walks up and stares out, there's no keeping our eyes from being directed to what he's looking at as well, but, as a result of this up-frontness, it's far more evocative and memorable, with the sight of a young, innocent Vito, after having witnessed the violent murder of his mother (and having just barely escaped death himself) looking out and getting inspiration from the sight of Lady Liberty like so many other new immigrants of that time, but unlike them, this is contrasted with the chilling foreknowledge we possess from the original of what exactly he ended up doing with the freedom represented by that statue, partly as a result of his brush with death that we just witnessed, so it sets up his entire arc across both films pretty much perfectly. And, in doing this, Part II calls back to this visual motif of its predecessor, while still significantly improving upon it, and showing a way that Coppola had grown as a filmmaker between films. Anyway, what say you guys? Do you have any general thoughts on the overall subject of subtlety in cinematic style versus all-out maximalism, or any other specific examples of "more being more" in film?

  22. #68747
    Screenwriter Yxklyx's Avatar
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    I dunno. I like that scene from The Godfather - can't a movie just have ONE obvious shot like this? Some movies can be littered with them - and it works because of the movie's style/tone. I think what you're saying is that the style/tone of the rest of the film doesn't mesh with that scene.
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  23. #68748
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    the premise that state-subsidized filmmaking automatically leads to aesthetically freewheeling masterpieces strikes me as dubious at best
    That premise is ridiculous and it's not what I'm talking about. I would argue that state-subsidized filmmaking leads to movies that wouldn't be made otherwise due to their limited commercial appeal.

  24. #68749
    Administrator Ezee E's Avatar
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    I'm kind of confused. Are we supporting the idea of "less is more" with images contributing to theme?

    I'm very much for it as long as it's done with a little ambiguity, and not as a punchline. In fact, I think it's necessary for the artform. It should also apply to the characters, and not just the viewers.

    But like anything, it can be done wrong... an example:

    The Departed's final image of a rat walking along the window is nearly 4th Wall-Breaking. I don't even think this was meant to be comedic, but it definitely comes across that way for how obvious it was. Unlike the earlier mentioned Godfather images, which resonate with Vito Corleone for understandable reasons, "I believe in America," this is an image that only applies to the audience.

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  25. #68750
    Quote Quoting Grouchy (view post)
    That premise is ridiculous and it's not what I'm talking about. I would argue that state-subsidized filmmaking leads to movies that wouldn't be made otherwise due to their limited commercial appeal.
    I didn't think you were. I was responding to Purple's bizarre claim that Eastern Bloc countries were throwing wads of cash at filmmakers to use however they wished.
    Just because...
    Touch Me Not (Adina Pintilie, 2018) warm
    Madame Hyde (Serge Bozon, 2017) mild
    O Fantasma (Joăo Pedro Rodrigues, 2000) warm

    The last book I read was...
    Selected Stories by Katherine Mansfield


    The (New) World

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