28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[StanleyK]

Nah... I mean, Casino is a great, great movie, but there are few movies better than Goodfellas (one of them is Raging Bull btw).

[StanleyK]

I seldom watch a movie and feel it should be longer, but the ending of Vera Drake seemed rather abrupt. I honestly would've liked another half-hour or so dealing with her prison life, return to society, and her family coping in the meantime and afterwards.

[Ivan Drago]

Yeah, Goodfellas is a masterpiece, but Casino has more memorable moments for me.

The opening titles, Joe Pesci killing a guy with a pen, the Contempt score, and the montage set to 'House of the Rising Sun' are unforgettable.

[MadMan]

Yeah, Goodfellas is a masterpiece, but Casino has more memorable moments for me.

The opening titles, Joe Pesci killing a guy with a pen, the Contempt score, and the montage set to 'House of the Rising Sun' are unforgettable.

Also [

Show Spoiler

Pesci's death scene is beyond brutal.

]

I love both, but I slightly prefer Goodfellas. Casino is far more sprawling and epic, though.

[Dukefrukem]

Hot take: Casino is better than GoodFellas. Darker, funnier, more ambitious, and a killer soundtrack.

They are basically the same film so it's a toss up for me. Both way too long.

[baby doll]

I saw Casino first and it still find it far less successful on its own terms than Goodfellas. It's the cinematic equivalent of a mix tape rather than a unified whole: the Pesci scenes from Goodfellas plus the Cathy Moriarty scenes from Raging Bull plus an expositional docudrama about the mob in Las Vegas plus musical selections from Godard and Pasolini and visual ideas cribbed from Truffaut. There's a lot on the screen but it never amounts to very much.

[Grouchy]

The first Rocky is very good but then the series is just different shades of bad until maybe Balboa. The fourth one is worth it for the camp value, though. I'd like to offer the opinion that the difference between Rocky and other formulaic underdog films from the '80s like Karate Kid is that the title character loses the fight.

I love both Goodfellas and Casino but the former did it first and better.

[Dead & Messed Up]

So, ROCKY III.

The flick's got energy to spare, and in Clubber Lang it finds a new kind of threat to Rocky. And in a movie made with more Hollywood gloss than the previous films, it's interesting how the flick leans into that and turns Rocky into a kitchsy caricature. The Atlas-like statue erected in his honor, the sub-Vegas "training gym" that hawks tacky merchandise. And I liked when the film slowed down for human moments. Rocky and Paulie tussling in the parking garage. Adrian saying they could treat their trip to LA like a honeymoon. And the film repositioning Apollo as Rocky's new mentor lets Weathers show off his formidable charisma again. (Baby, we got a stew going.)

But there's a weird emotional opaqueness in ROCKY III that I can't quite see through. Like I said, Clubber's a new kind of threat, but he's also denied humanity in a series that is always careful to create opponents as sympathetic people instead of villains. *Why* does he hate Rocky? Is it really just that softness he sees in the champ? What does this guy do when he's alone? I have trouble buying into his character. He's an eternal boxing promo, more force of nature than human person. I was expecting a reveal that the man's diet consists solely of coffee and cocaine.

There's also a crucial turning point that requires a beachside pep talk from Adrian. And it's... kinda bad? It's shouty and strained, and it takes time for Rocky to admit that he's afraid. And then it's off to the montage. Something about the scene doesn't feel right to me. I think it needed an extra moment or two, or maybe an epilogue, where Rocky really allows himself to feel that fear inside him and recognize it. (Also, is this movie basically THE DARK KNIGHT RISES? I think it is. Hero who's allowed himself to become soft gets taken out by a vocal single-minded villain and builds himself back up in a seedy location before coming back to fight the villain one last time.)

Also, sometimes musicians on-screen play the Bill Conti ROCKY themes. I'm sorry, WHAT?! It's like in SOLO when the recruitment center plays a muzak major-key Imperial March. I can *feel* my brain melting.

I don't know how I feel about this flick.

[Irish]

What does this guy do when he's alone?

Pities the fool.

Obviously.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Pities the fool.

Obviously.

You know what, forgot to give the film credit. Clubber has the all-time line: "I'm gonna crucify him-- real bad." That is a great line.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Rocky IV is fanterrible.

[Spinal]

Both Bohemian Rhapsody and A Star is Born were nominated for Best Picture - Drama, even though the Golden Globes has a category for Best Picture - Comedy or Musical.

OK.

[Dead & Messed Up]

But the Globes are meaningless, so whatever.

Nominate Hereditary for Best Comedy, nominate Blackkklansmen for Best Animated Feature. Fuck it.

[Irish]

Both Bohemian Rhapsody and A Star is Born were nominated for Best Picture - Drama, even though the Golden Globes has a category for Best Picture - Comedy or Musical.

OK.

They nominated "Vice" in the Comedy/ Musical category, too, which confuses the hell out of me.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...comedy-1165129

[Dead & Messed Up]

Whatever calculus nets them the most high-profile stars for their show. It's a farce.

[Ezee E]

Weak year for Dramas I guess. Studios took advantage.

[Dead & Messed Up]

ROCKY IV time.

Comments I'd read on FB about ROCKY IV being one big montage are not inaccurate. This movie has about 30 minutes worth of story stretched into 90 thanks to the film's constant need to remind you of what you already know. Never so bewilderingly as when Rocky takes a nighttime drive and flashes back to, among other series highlights, Adrian looking at him right before he goes out for that exact same nighttime drive. Two minutes ago. This goddamn movie. But, weirdly, when the film has real story to tell - in its opening act with Apollo Creed stupidly going after Ivan Drago - it hesitates. I took Apollo Creed as much smarter than this, and while I can appreciate that he's operating from vanity and a private desperation that his life is over, the film should've showed him hedging on this, recognizing it, trying to temper it with significant training, and still losing. And he also shouldn't've lost so fast. This should in theory make Ivan Drago more threatening, but it seriously undercuts the final act when Rocky lasts, what, 12 rounds against a man that straight-up murdered somebody in two?

That said, the most interesting character is Ivan Drago. Dolph Lundgren does a fabulous job hinting at a character's inherent tragedy while keeping stoic. Imagine this movie told purely from his perspective, and it's a classic Frankenstein tale, with Rocky as the angry villagers out to settle the score after Drago did *the very thing he was designed to do.* The ending scene, with him rebelling (as much as he can) against his creators, declaring he wants to win this fight for him instead of Mudder Russia, is a highlight in a film whose highlights are more a consequence of how strange they are than how effective they are. Like, say, oh, I don't know, Paulie getting a robot that looks like the love-child of Johnny 5 and a disco ball. And then Paulie programs it to sound like a woman and sorta be into him. Calls it a wife. Guys, gals, I have to ask. Did Paulie bang this robot? And if so, what in f**k is it doing looking after children? This creepy-ass sexbot.

Look, I get it. The ROCKY movies are going through this thing where they somehow get both worse as they go... and more memetic. "Eef he diez, he diez." Rocky tearing away Ivan's picture. "I mahst braykh yoo." "If I can change..." Bits of this movie are fun, even unforgettable (Apollo's arrival is a masterpiece of idiotic excess). But what a disappointment that cartoon absurdity is the only option left in a series that started out so attentive and human.

[Irish]

Possibly relevant to your interests: Gene Siskel's original newspaper review of "Rocky IV" from November, 1985

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...074-story.html

I love that he was so enthusiastic about something trivial, contrary to his usual style.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Nice! Thanks for the link. It's fun to read his thoughts, and I'd concede he's right that, for all my misgivings about these sequels, they often create vivid images and moments and do at least try to mix it up within the narrow confines of what they are. Like Siskel says, Clubber is not a repeat of Apollo, Drago is his own thing. Even in Rocky V, which I just watched (and will get to eventually), Tommy Gunn is a dark mirror of early Rocky, which makes some contextual sense to Rocky going "back to his roots."

[Ivan Drago]

I love how First Reformed gets snubbed at the Golden Globes after Paul Schrader said he would still work with Kevin Spacey, yet nobody bats an eye after Viggo Mortenson says the n-word at a post-Green Book Q&A. LOL, Hollywood Foreign Press.

Also, Rocky IV rules.

[transmogrifier]

First Reformed is awesome

[transmogrifier]

Support the Girls!

[Grouchy]

I love how First Reformed gets snubbed at the Golden Globes after Paul Schrader said he would still work with Kevin Spacey, yet nobody bats an eye after Viggo Mortenson says the n-word at a post-Green Book Q&A. LOL, Hollywood Foreign Press.

Eh, it's different. "Nigger" depends a lot on its context and intentions to be offensive while a pedophile rarely gets a pass to even walk the street. They're too wildly different things to constitute a double standard.

[Lazlo]

Also, First Reformed isn't really Golden Globes' cup of tea (or Draino). The movie itself is why it didn't get nominated, not Schrader's comments.

[MadMan]

Rocky III is my favorite one in the series because of Clubber Lang and Apollo. According to Rocky IV, Rocky helps end communism in 1985