28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[StanleyK]

Full Metal Jacket is one of my favorites from Kubrick. I enjoy the second half maybe even more than the first, actually. They're both masterpieces.

[Dukefrukem]

I really loved the 2nd half too. Before the internet, before I knew who Kubrick was, it was on HBO one night... After watching it, I went through a war film obsession trying to watch everything I could find taking place during that era as well as WW2. I dont feel like anything comes close to FMJ.

[Irish]

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Show Spoiler

Maybe not, but I do think it's probably not a coincidence that Ermey's character is smitten with the accuracy of elevated snipers, and the film's second climax revolves around an elevated sniper. I don't know if it's making a larger point, but the recurrence seems suggestive enough that I don't like dismissing it.

While we can make the connection, I don't think it's a strong one because there isn't enough context around it. Hartman mentions historical events outside the scope of the film, and neither snipers nor elevated positions are referenced again until the last 30 minutes. His speech is a throwaway. A little bit of fucked up, dehumanizing trivia.

Anyway, I've seen this movie maybe a half dozen times but this time a few things stood out:

At the end of the first act, Pyle says "I am in a world of shit" and then kills Hartman in cold blood. At the end of third act, Joker kills someone in cold blood and then reflects, "I am in a world of shit, but I am alive and I am not afraid."

Hartman makes a speech around the rifle range scene and warns the recruits that if they don't have a "hard heart," they will hesitate at the moment of truth and they will die.

Pyle doesn't hesitate to kill, but he still dies.

Joker's rifle jams when he confronts the sniper, he freaks out, draws a handgun, but is unable to fire. After he's rescued by Raster Man, he insists the squad not leave the injured sniper and kills her. (Animal Mother dares him to do it; the rest of the squad remains silent.) In the final shot, he's happy and smiling and singing along with his squadmates.

There's maybe a coupla ways to interpret those scenes: Joker is disturbed by Cowboy's death and kills the sniper as revenge; or, borrowing an idea from the source material, he puts her down because doing otherwise would be inhumane. (This is emphasized by Animal Mother suggesting they "leave her for the mother-lovin' rats." The squad fronts their toughness out of fear. Joker is "hardcore" out of mercy.)

I don't think these are terribly strong connections, either. But I did think it was interesting that both big climaxes end with central character killing in cold blood.

Also: I don't know why I never noticed before, but when the third act starts (with T.H.E. Rock getting sniped), the sniper is in a position almost 90 degrees from the squad. They can't see her and there's no way they can hit her, but they don't know that. So all the ammo they unload into nearby buildings is a completely impotent display of power.

I mean, it could be? It's entirely possible they chose the title for the reasons you say, but it could also be true that the writers saw added meaning in the title, since they went out of their way to change the title from the source material. I'm honestly surprised you can feel so certain about these things. To me, Kubrick has always been a sticky sort of director, where even his less successful films carry intriguing holistic details that suggest alternative reads and sorta stick in the craw. Sometimes those lead to viewers (like me) missing the forest for the trees, but, again, I see no harm in it. Anyway, I didn't love the flick, just thought there were interesting things happening.

I'm going by my gut. In the book, the drill sergeant's name is "Gerheim." In the movie, he's "Hartman." In other instances, the opening borrows dialogue directly from the novel but gives Cowboy's lines to Joker and vice versa. I don't think those changes are particularly meaningful.

Likewise, title change seems equally arbitrary. I mean, most war films have clipped, aggressive titles as part of their marketing. (It's also possible the studio made the change themselves, outside Kubrick's influence.)

]

[Milky Joe]

Full Metal Jacket is one of my favorites from Kubrick. I enjoy the second half maybe even more than the first, actually. They're both masterpieces.

Yeah it fuckin' rules from start to finish. The ending is haunting. Signed, one of those Room 237 guys.

[Lazlo]

David Ehrlich's top 25 video is out! I look forward to this every year. He always does a hell of a job.

EDIT: The embed isn't working as far as I can tell so here's the URL.

[Dukefrukem]

Embed works for me.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I've seen three Rocky flicks so far in my life. Rocky, Rocky Balboa, and Creed. Gonna try and fix that this week, started with Rocky II.

Which is fine, it just feels a little redundant. In general, it feels sorta contrived. The first half shows Rocky acting even more dimwitted than in the first film, spending outrageously with his money and failing to find a sustainable job. As far as kitchen sink melodrama goes, it's a couple steps below the relative delicacy of the original film's Rocky/Adrian dynamic. The premise that his heart isn't in the fight and that he's going through the motions to provide for his son makes for a compelling middle, but then Adrian's getting ill turns into a bit of a plot stall, going on longer than necessary and indulging in a lot of cross-fades (go figure, this is a film that precedes its final act with three montages: dispassionate training, mourning, passionate training). The story builds her illness on a plausible circumstance and - better yet - ties that illness directly to Rocky's actions. But the enactment of that drama feels a little pat, and the resolve to it (Adrian whispering "Win") barely works on account of an overenthusiastic Mickey who all but shouts "Yippeeee!" That said, the final act regains the momentum of the middle section (when Rocky didn't give a fuck, which was an intriguing way to play the drama). It's a strong fight, and the setup of [When will Rocky deploy his southpaw?] leads to a satisfying payoff.

It's the least of the four films I've seen, but I don't regret the time spent watching. The best part is Stallone's ear for Rocky's dialogue. His sideways comments to Apollo's theatrical menace almost always made me chuckle, especially when he started listing the things he wants to buy with the money from the winnings, and he suggests new hats and a snow-cone maker.

[Skitch]

I havent seen the last 2-3 Rocky films, but I've found the series as a whole completely overrated. I revisited Rocky couple weeks ago because of the Creed 2 trailers, and....I just cant get into this series. Its lame. I just dont get Hollywoods fascination with boxing as deep drama. I'm well aware I'm in vast majority on this, but oh well. I've gotten more real feels from old school kung fu.

[Irish]

As a series, it's not very good. III is cheesy fun because of Mr T. IV is the cinematic epitome of Reagan America. Never saw V, but everything else.

I'm not sure any of them were rated highly outside the first. Stallone started well but quickly became a joke by overextending himself ("Cobra," "Assassins," etc). It's amazing the dude never learned his lesson; he squanders audience goodwill faster than anyone I've ever seen.

[transmogrifier]

I don't think I've ever seen a Rocky movie. Maybe the first one lost in the mists of time? Boxing movies have never been that interesting to me.

[Skitch]

I don't think I've ever seen a Rocky movie. Maybe the first one lost in the mists of time? Boxing movies have never been that interesting to me.

Me either. Raging Bull is meh too. There I said it.

[transmogrifier]

Me either. Raging Bull is meh too. There I said it.

Me too. Only seen it once though. New York, New York is better.

[Dukefrukem]

I haven't seen any of the Rocky movies either except for the first. People reference them all the time so I need to get on that.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's funny, I'm in general not a fan of sports, never been able to get into them, but I find the template of Rocky I / VI / Creed engaging, reassuring, and warm. Part of it is I think they're operating on that template/archetypal level of storytelling, more in the category of flicks like How to Train Your Dragon or the original Star Wars, if that makes any sense. They're spare and direct, and if done well, they can cut through to the heart of me.

[Ezee E]

Rocky is like a good indie in today's movies. Charming, authentic and personal. They all downhill from there, with IV being a joke, albeit entertaining in a way. Is there a Rocky V? If there is, I haven't and won't be seeing it. Rocky Balboa is fine in a remake kind of way.

Creed is somewhere between Rocky and Rocky II.

[Skitch]

Me too. Only seen it once though. New York, New York is better.

I just blind bought NY,NY last week. Will report back.

[Mr. McGibblets]

I've seen three Rocky flicks so far in my life. Rocky, Rocky Balboa, and Creed.

I'm pretty sure I've also only seen these three. I barely remember Rocky; Rocky Balboa was better than I thought it would be, but nothing special. I actually really like Creed, though I'm not that into the boxing parts.

[Spinal]

I'm going to offer the opinion that people like the original Rocky because:

a) they like the underdog formula (it's Karate Kid, it's 8 Mile, it's Hoosiers)
b) the music gets them pumped up

[Dukefrukem]

Just when I was about to proclaim this the worst showing year in MC history, we are now only 20 movies away from hitting the current 2017 database.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm going to offer the opinion that people like the original Rocky because:

a) they like the underdog formula (it's Karate Kid, it's 8 Mile, it's Hoosiers)
b) the music gets them pumped up

Well, that definitely is your opinion, no doubting that.

[transmogrifier]

Hot take: Casino is better than GoodFellas. Darker, funnier, more ambitious, and a killer soundtrack.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Hot take: Casino is better than GoodFellas. Darker, funnier, more ambitious, and a killer soundtrack.

Ooh! Ahh, burnt my damn fingers on this boiling hot take.

[Haven't seen Casino.]

[transmogrifier]

Do it, it’s great.

[Ezee E]

It is great. Like eating a Thanksgiving-style Goodfellas. You probably ate too much, but it was worth it.

[Skitch]

Hot take: Casino is better than GoodFellas. Darker, funnier, more ambitious, and a killer soundtrack.

While I disagree as mildly as a taco bell hot sauce, totally fair opinion. Casino is GREAT.

How Damu, how?? DO IT

I'm genuinely surprised on that take from you trans. I wouldn't have pegged you for that. Totally fine with it.