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Thread: 28 Film Discussion Threads Later

  1. #59101
    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Not at all. If a film is about politics, or is political, then critique its politics.
    I haven't seen the movie since it was in theatres, but it seems to me that the movie couldn't be more political in its reticence to criticize the American military. In other words, it's as much a recruitment film as Top Gun.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  2. #59102
    Quote Quoting Ezee E (view post)
    With that, if you disagree, what is the best military movie of the 2000's?
    I don't know about "best," but Waltz With Bashir is the first that comes to mind.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  3. #59103

  4. #59104
    Quote Quoting Qrazy (view post)
    I'm not saying it should be a musical here, I'm saying that trying to be a film about combat in isolation only from one side of the fence is an artistic mistake.
    Is it still a mistake if it's done deliberately? I mean, Scott and his collaborators set out to make a patriotic war film in which the White Man dominates the African Other. If you want to be a successful filmmaker in the American mainstream, you have to uphold the dominant ideology, and Scott must know this.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  5. #59105
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    I don't know about "best," but Waltz With Bashir is the first that comes to mind.
    I still need to see this, thanks for the reminder.

  6. #59106
    What is best in life? D_Davis's Avatar
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    One thing I appreciate about BHD more so than other more popular war films like Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now is that I never hear people quote lines from BHD, nor do they talk about and remark about how "bad-ass" it is. FMJ always bothered me because of how people watched the first 1/2 like it was some kind of comedy; it might as well be Austin Powers with the way people quote the drill Sergeant. And AN took a disgusting part of American History and turned it into some kind of psychedelic vision quest.

    I don't remember ever really be entertained by BHD. I remember being scared during the film, and exhausted after it was done. I didn't feel good about American soldiers, or about my country. The film's subject is too myopic, too laser-focused on the single combat situation to make me feel anything more than how it must feel to have to survive.

    I haven't seen it since it was in the theater, and I don't really have the desire to watch it again. I also don't think a film needs to be re-evaluated, because sometimes you see a movie at a certain point and it resonates with you. I think there is a lot of value in critiquing a film after a single viewing and leaving it at that. So maybe my opinion on it would be different now...I don't know and don't really care to find out.

  7. #59107
    I have things I want to say about what you guys are saying, but I haven't seen BHD. Alas.

  8. #59108
    The Pan Qrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Is it still a mistake if it's done deliberately? I mean, Scott and his collaborators set out to make a patriotic war film in which the White Man dominates the African Other. If you want to be a successful filmmaker in the American mainstream, you have to uphold the dominant ideology, and Scott must know this.
    I would describe an 'artistic mistake' as a mistake which undermines the overarching artistic value of a piece.
    The Princess and the Pilot - B-
    Playtime (rewatch) - A
    The Hobbit - C-
    The Comedy - D+
    Kings of the Road - C+
    The Odd Couple - B
    Red Rock West - C-
    The Hunger Games - D-
    Prometheus - C
    Tangled - C+

  9. #59109
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    I'm trying to decide if I should give the posting award, which is an irrelevant award I just made up this second as I write this, to Qrazy for his Black Hawk Down discussion or Irish for "There are no intelligent Sci-Fi Films Discussion"



    This has been a content explosion this week for MC and I've been entertained.
    Twitch / Youtube / Film Diary

    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  10. #59110
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    This has been a content explosion this week for MC and I've been entertained.
    Hey, that's cool. I'm tickled anybody found value in something I said. Since usually, uh, it doesn't go so well for me around here. :lol:

    I vote for Qrazy, with a supporting nomination for D_Davis.

    Those posts were good and insightful, but I'd also like to point out the post Q made a week or so ago about Polanski, I think it was. That one just blew me away with a flurry of technical insights. It was a really great read.

    D_Davis made Q's posts possible, and provided insights from a viewpoint I didn't at all share, but I still appreciated the thoughtfulness behind them.

  11. #59111
    something real elixir's Avatar
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    circlejerk!

  12. #59112
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    Quote Quoting elixir (view post)
    circlejerk!
    :lol: Well played, you magnificent bastard.

  13. #59113
    По́мните Катю... Izzy Black's Avatar
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    RT used to do posting awards

  14. #59114
    Cinematographer StanleyK's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    There's still a lot to like about Twilight of a Woman's Soul. For 1913, it's remarkably complex structurally and the way it transfers the guilt and shame of Vera after being raped to the prince once he regrets turning her away when she tells him of her past is technically impressive and emotionally and thematically gratifying. That said, there are several stretches, particularly at the beginning that are relatively bland compared to the other two.

    After Death impressed me most - the best pre-1920s film aside from Les Vampires IMO. Here, Bauer truly perfects the compression of time to achieve maximum dramatic effect, split-second decisions are quickly met with their dire and deadly consequences (love blossoms and turns destructive almost simultaneously), which is perfectly in line his fascination with the thin line between love and death. The elliptical editing is almost disorienting at times, but the drastic distance, both temporally and emotionally, between shots matches the otherworldy feverish passion that overtakes Zoya and ultimately Andrei. The long zoom into the close up of Zoya's face after her performance and the extended reverse zoom/pan at the party where they meet are years ahead of its time, yet both are stylistic devices that further develop the emotions on display rather than technical wizardry for its own sake.

    I have similar praise for The Dying Swan, though it's a bit more sentimental and the painter character isn't as seemlessly integrated into the plot as everyone in After Death, however Bauer uses a similar structure to the one in Twilight... with the transferrence of guilt leading Gizella away from Victor and ultimately towards the artist and death itself.

    These are the first 3 films I've seen from him, but I am psyched to check out more. How is Her Sister's Rival?
    Yeah, After Death is some truly impressive filmmaking, particularly in its manipulation of time. I was taken aback by its jump cuts. I was really loving it until towards the end, when Zoya's apparitions become rather repetitive, too frequent with too little visual or narrative variation.

    Her Sister's Rival is great, my favorite of the three of his I've seen. It's maybe not as daring as After Death, but within its more conventional melodrama frame it's superlative, never coming even close to falling prey to the genre's usual worst conventions of exaggerated, phony sentiment or talking down to the audience, and it also builds a strong emotional connection. Its filmmaking is every bit as exquisite, too.

  15. #59115
    White Tiger Field Stay Puft's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting soitgoes... (view post)
    In the Heat of the Sun (Jiang 94) ****
    No kidding?

    Share some thoughts. I've only seen Let the Bullets Fly and wasn't too enthusiastic about it, didn't think it well directed or anything either. Liked him as an actor, though.
    Giving up in 2020. Who cares.

    maɬni – towards the ocean, towards the shore (Sky Hopinka) ***½
    Without Remorse (Stefano Sollima) *½
    The Marksman (Robert Lorenz) **
    Beckett (Ferdinando Cito Filomarino) *½
    Night Hunter (David Raymond) *

  16. #59116
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    So cool.

  17. #59117
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Qrazy (view post)
    . It's about portraying a visceral experience of it's own Hollywood creation in a patriotic manner in a propagandistic fashion.
    .
    Hm, I never really got that from BHD. I think the operation in the movie comes across as a failure which it was in real life too. The movie's entire philosophy I felt was nicely summarized by the Bana character when he states that "once that first bullet flies past you, politics and all that shit goes right out the window.". And there's a sentiment throughout the movie that, in the end, it's about the guys you fight with. You try to stay alive and cover each other's back as best as possible.
    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

    • Dark (S3) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Fall (Mann, 2022) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Ms. Marvel (S1) ✦½ [+]
    • Dark (S2) ✦✦✦✦
    • Moon Knight (S1) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Get Carter (Hodges, 1971) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Prey (Trachtenberg, 2022) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Black Bird (S1) ✦✦✦✦
    • Better Call Saul (S6) ✦✦✦½ [+]
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    • Thor: Love and Thunder (Waititi, 2022) ✦✦ [+]


  18. #59118
    The Pan Qrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting angrycinephile (view post)
    Even Hans Zimmer himself has talked about how his music was changed and rearranged during the editing process - presumably after 9/11. Zimmer actually wrote the heavy guitar riffing theme for the American troops since his approach was that the more modern music (i.e. electric guitars and techno/electronica) would accompany the American armies while the Somali soldiers would be accompanied by African vocals and instruments.

    "While Zimmer intended for the Americans to be represented by the heaviest music, the scene in which the convoy of helicopters approaches the coast is switched so that the shots of rioting civilians are given the bombast while the choppers are treated to silence."

    "I love african music. Black Hawk Down, which in Europe everybody thinks is some sort of American fascist statement, I tried to do exactly the opposite with the music, I tried to give Africa a voice in this, so it wouldn’t be just the voice of the soldiers and I was the counterpoint very much, for Ridley as well, so much so that at one point the studio said "You’re letting the wrong guys win" - Hans Zimmer.
    I didn't write that review.

    But anyway... it might have been a slightly better movie had that happened but it didn't and it would still be heavy handed. Interesting info though, thanks for that.
    The Princess and the Pilot - B-
    Playtime (rewatch) - A
    The Hobbit - C-
    The Comedy - D+
    Kings of the Road - C+
    The Odd Couple - B
    Red Rock West - C-
    The Hunger Games - D-
    Prometheus - C
    Tangled - C+

  19. #59119
    The Pan Qrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Morris Schæffer (view post)
    Hm, I never really got that from BHD. I think the operation in the movie comes across as a failure which it was in real life too. The movie's entire philosophy I felt was nicely summarized by the Bana character when he states that "once that first bullet flies past you, politics and all that shit goes right out the window.". And there's a sentiment throughout the movie that, in the end, it's about the guys you fight with. You try to stay alive and cover each other's back as best as possible.
    The operation can be a failure and it can still be propagandistic at the same time.

    Not sure how you can argue with the visceral experience part given that the majority of the film was combat.
    The Princess and the Pilot - B-
    Playtime (rewatch) - A
    The Hobbit - C-
    The Comedy - D+
    Kings of the Road - C+
    The Odd Couple - B
    Red Rock West - C-
    The Hunger Games - D-
    Prometheus - C
    Tangled - C+

  20. #59120
    sleepy soitgoes...'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Stay Puft (view post)
    No kidding?

    Share some thoughts. I've only seen Let the Bullets Fly and wasn't too enthusiastic about it, didn't think it well directed or anything either. Liked him as an actor, though.
    Totally.

    I'm drunk right now, but what the fuck.

    One of the best Chinese films I've seen. I've read your thoughts on Let the Bullets Fly and was hoping for a better response. A perfect nostalgic film. Jiang does a wonderful job encapsulating youths living in the Cultural Revolution era Beijing. Never overly sentimental, as a matter of fact the film doesn't ever glorify anything as opposed to many coming of age stories. Filmed with a yellowish hue, he touches on first love as first love usually ends up being, that is something that ends in pain, anger, confusion. Narrated, he states at the very beginning that he is only going on what he recalls, how he wants to recall it. Which means the story isn't necessary a true account, but at the very least it's an honest account. The lead and his love interest are so perfectly cast. The film never becomes maudlin, rather it feels like something I could completely relate to, and Jiang doesn't over dramatize, he keeps a playful level throughout. I can't wait to see Devil on the Doorstep, which will probably be the next film to pop onto my sig. Great, great film that I highly recommend to you and anyone else who has access to it.

    Also, having just seen The Missing Gun, which stars Jiang as an actor, I have to say that the lead he got for In the Heat of the Sun has an uncanny resemblance to him.

  21. #59121
    Here till the end MadMan's Avatar
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  22. #59122
    Quote Quoting Stay Puft (view post)
    No kidding?

    Share some thoughts. I've only seen Let the Bullets Fly and wasn't too enthusiastic about it, didn't think it well directed or anything either. Liked him as an actor, though.
    I haven't seen In the Heat of the Sun, but Devils on the Doorstep and The Sun Also Rises are both mind-blowing masterpieces. The former was banned in China and the latter was a huge flop, so one can rationalize Let the Bullets Fly as a film he needed to make in order to go on working.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  23. #59123
    Quote Quoting Morris Schæffer (view post)
    Hm, I never really got that from BHD. I think the operation in the movie comes across as a failure which it was in real life too. The movie's entire philosophy I felt was nicely summarized by the Bana character when he states that "once that first bullet flies past you, politics and all that shit goes right out the window.". And there's a sentiment throughout the movie that, in the end, it's about the guys you fight with. You try to stay alive and cover each other's back as best as possible.
    I think I would have less of a problem with Black Hawk Down if it didn't pretend not to be a political film when it obviously is. By narrowly focusing on what happens when "that first bullet flies past you," the film frames the story in such a way as to preclude any criticism of the United States. A flag-waving ode to the awesomeness of American military might at least would've been more honest. Then again, I suppose propaganda is more effective when it presents itself as apolitical entertainment. Still, I have a strong suspicion that, after the film's release, there was a sharp spike in enlistment for the US army.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  24. #59124
    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    One thing I appreciate about BHD more so than other more popular war films like Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now is that I never hear people quote lines from BHD, nor do they talk about and remark about how "bad-ass" it is. FMJ always bothered me because of how people watched the first 1/2 like it was some kind of comedy; it might as well be Austin Powers with the way people quote the drill Sergeant. And AN took a disgusting part of American History and turned it into some kind of psychedelic vision quest.
    In the case of the films by Coppola and Kubrick, it's interesting (though not surprising) that, despite their clout within the industry, neither filmmaker was willing--or perhaps capable--of making a broader critique of American involvement in Vietnam. Coppola seems to think that the war could've been won had the US been more brutal, as evidenced by Brando's "horror" monologue, which at once represses acts of brutality by the US army against Vietnamese civilians and ignores the reasons why America became involved in the war in the first place. On the other hand, Kubrick's attitude towards the US army is ambivalent enough that anyone can read the film however they like. The drill sergeant's treatment of Gomer Pile (who may be retarded) is at the same time cruel and hilarious. (Much the same could be said for the attack on the village in Apocalypse Now, which shows the madness of war but is also a thrilling action set piece, thus satisfying both liberal and conservative viewers.) In terms of form and style, Kubrick's film is probably the most accomplished Hollywood movie about the Vietnam war (rivaled only by The Deer Hunter), though its acceptance in the mainstream is predicated partly on adhering to certain ideological parameters.
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  25. #59125
    Bark! Go away Russ's Avatar
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    btw, a VERY big PRO for Haneke's Caché. I'm always a big wuss going into one of his films because I know he doesn't pull any punches, and therefore he's likely to catch me off-guard, which is exactly what happens here. Still, give me a dozen of these types of films over standard cookie-cutter thrillers any day of the week. Reminiscent in tone of Spoorloos, where you aren't spoon-fed all the information that you feel is required. Every single thing you need for this narrative is in place for you, however; you just need to pay attention and your inquisitive mind will do the rest. Love, love, love this one.

    One of the best of the 2000's, imho.
    "We eventually managed to find them near Biskupin, where demonstrations of prehistoric farming are organized. These oxen couldn't be transported to anywhere else, so we had to built the entire studio around them. A scene that lasted twenty-something seconds took us a year and a half to prepare."

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