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Thread: 28 Film Discussion Threads Later

  1. #56176
    So, this is interesting.

    I recently came across a site that has the entire pre-production development of Super Mario Bros. up for viewing, from the initial pitch to the ungodly number of screenplay drafts to the liner notes, and revisions. And, I've got to say - this actually could've been a really, really good film, and I can see now why the film ended up being such a narrative mess, in its finished incarnation.

    Each of the separate drafts are so entirely divergent from one another in terms of style and influence - running the gamut from The Princess Bride-esque fantasy that does actually come a lot from the games to something very unabashedly adult and cynical, with Die Hard and Mad Max as its predecessors (which includes one of my favorite one liners in a while, but I'll get to that in a minute). Alone, these are all actually really competent screenplays and adaptations of a relatively plotless game - the problem is, this film had about twenty-nine thousand writers, and rather than having each successive draft gradually develop and build up some kind of concrete narrative, they've all done their own thing.

    In an attempt to hastily unify them, and you can see this in the late-term revisions, the light tone is pulled from one and stitched together with the set-pieces of another. Dialogue is reduced in complexity, and - it seems that the writers were all told to downplay the evolution of the characters as it took up screen-time in what they saw as mainly a toyetic film. In each draft of the screenplay, everything is pretty concretely drawn out - Mario is a cynic who who is ashamed of his family business and the fact that he's pulling Luigi into it as well and ruining whatever prospects his life might have in the future. Luigi is a New Age youth raised in Brooklyn with Brooklyn values. Even Koopa gets paid a lot of attention, with some pretty pointed and creepy sequences.

    All this stuff was actually important to the work, early in the production, as strange as that sounds - being a Mario film. Alas, what could have been.


    One of my favorite sequences comes as the end of the second draft, from early 1992. It's the climactic face-off between Mario and Koopa - this time, taking place on the Brooklyn Bridge. This scene is a lot more interesting than the finished draft, with Koopa fully reptile and climbing all over the bridge structures, breathing fire at Mario and choking him with his tongue. So, it all comes to a head, and Koopa says something like, "what can you do? You're just a plumber."

    And, Mario's like ". . .you're goddamn right, you slimy piece of shit." AND THEN HE SHOOTS HIM IN THE FACE WITH HIS BOOT.

    It's a great scene, shame we'll never see it.
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  2. #56177
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    That doesn't sound like a very good scene. Mario shouldn't be saying "shit".

  3. #56178
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Whatever. Super Mario Bros. is an awesome movie as it is.

  4. #56179
    Quote Quoting Winston* (view post)
    That doesn't sound like a very good scene. Mario shouldn't be saying "shit".
    I can dig it.

    There's a note by one of the directors on a later draft that just says, "if there's only one swear word in the whole movie, it must be this one." I can agree with that.
    thefilmistreturns.wordpress.com

    Impossible. Meaningless.

  5. #56180
    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    Just got done watching 2001 with the whole family. My son, who is 9, was watching it for the first time. To my surprise, he had a very large emotional reaction to [
    ]

    I don't think I've ever seen him that shaken up by a movie before. He's still kind of teary. I think he's having some complicated emotions around processing the scene's central dilemma. I'm curious to discuss it more with him, but I'm not sure he's fully ready to talk about it yet.

    Anyway, the film is still pretty much the most brilliant thing ever. I know we get tired of hearing how great it is, but it really is a singular, soul-stirring experience.
    Coming to America (Landis, 1988) **
    The Beach Bum (Korine, 2019) *1/2
    Us (Peele, 2019) ***1/2
    Fugue (Smoczynska, 2018) ***1/2
    Prisoners (Villeneuve, 2013) ***1/2
    Shadow (Zhang, 2018) ***
    Oslo, August 31st (J. Trier, 2011) ****
    Climax (Noé, 2018) **1/2
    Fighting With My Family (Merchant, 2019) **
    Upstream Color (Carruth, 2013) ***

  6. #56181
    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I see the appeal in a cynical, swearing Mario.
    Coming to America (Landis, 1988) **
    The Beach Bum (Korine, 2019) *1/2
    Us (Peele, 2019) ***1/2
    Fugue (Smoczynska, 2018) ***1/2
    Prisoners (Villeneuve, 2013) ***1/2
    Shadow (Zhang, 2018) ***
    Oslo, August 31st (J. Trier, 2011) ****
    Climax (Noé, 2018) **1/2
    Fighting With My Family (Merchant, 2019) **
    Upstream Color (Carruth, 2013) ***

  7. #56182
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Anyway, the film is still pretty much the most brilliant thing ever. I know we get tired of hearing how great it is, but it really is a singular, soul-stirring experience.
    I was touched by the story about your son. I was similarly shaken by that sequence, as I'm sure many who were able to lose themselves in the film's deliberations on the first viewing were. And it's been a while since I've heard it mentioned, actually, so thanks for stoking excellent memories.

  8. #56183
    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Sven (view post)
    I was touched by the story about your son. I was similarly shaken by that sequence, as I'm sure many who were able to lose themselves in the film's deliberations on the first viewing were. And it's been a while since I've heard it mentioned, actually, so thanks for stoking excellent memories.
    I was really just hoping he wouldn't get bored. But his response to it far surpassed my expectations. It made me appreciate both him and the film all the more.
    Coming to America (Landis, 1988) **
    The Beach Bum (Korine, 2019) *1/2
    Us (Peele, 2019) ***1/2
    Fugue (Smoczynska, 2018) ***1/2
    Prisoners (Villeneuve, 2013) ***1/2
    Shadow (Zhang, 2018) ***
    Oslo, August 31st (J. Trier, 2011) ****
    Climax (Noé, 2018) **1/2
    Fighting With My Family (Merchant, 2019) **
    Upstream Color (Carruth, 2013) ***

  9. #56184
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    I was really just hoping he wouldn't get bored. But his response to it far surpassed my expectations. It made me appreciate both him and the film all the more.
    Very cool. I always get paranoid that K will be bored by the movies I make her watch, so much that it can be distracting. Though she just confirmed to me with an across-the-room nod that she liked the movie Sisters, so I guess that fear is a bit miscalculated.

  10. #56185
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    I can't imagine a 9-year old staying awake during 2001.
    Sure why not?

    STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI (Rian Johnson) - 9
    STRONGER (David Gordon Green) - 6
    THE DISASTER ARTIST (James Franco) - 7
    THE FLORIDA PROJECT (Sean Baker) - 9
    LADY BIRD (Greta Gerwig) - 8


    "Hitchcock is really bad at suspense."
    - Stay Puft

  11. #56186
    Crying Enthusiast Sven's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Watashi (view post)
    I can't imagine a 9-year old staying awake during 2001.
    That's just because you can't imagine a 9-year old not being raised on Ninja Turtles and Dinosaucers.

  12. #56187
    Kung Fu Hippie Watashi's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Sven (view post)
    That's just because you can't imagine a 9-year old not being raised on Ninja Turtles and Dinosaucers.
    That's a childhood I never want to imagine.
    Sure why not?

    STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI (Rian Johnson) - 9
    STRONGER (David Gordon Green) - 6
    THE DISASTER ARTIST (James Franco) - 7
    THE FLORIDA PROJECT (Sean Baker) - 9
    LADY BIRD (Greta Gerwig) - 8


    "Hitchcock is really bad at suspense."
    - Stay Puft

  13. #56188
    the one, the only. . . SirNewt's Avatar
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    I'm curios Sven and Spinal. Do you guys shield your respective kids from the more manic, ADD inducing kid culture out there. Do you think it has a big impact on child behavior?





  14. #56189
    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting SirNewt (view post)
    I'm curios Sven and Spinal. Do you guys shield your respective kids from the more manic, ADD inducing kid culture out there. Do you think it has a big impact on child behavior?
    Sven isn't a parent.

    And I don't really do a whole lot of shielding. I just try to make sure he gets variety in his activities. Reading, going outside, etc. I'll steer him towards the stuff I think is good, but I don't think I've ever told him he couldn't watch something because it was 'manic'.

    I mean, we also watch Monty Python together. That's kind of manic and catering to the ADD mentality, isn't it?

    If he has the patience for something like 2001, my best guess is that it is because I read him lots and lots of books at bedtime.
    Coming to America (Landis, 1988) **
    The Beach Bum (Korine, 2019) *1/2
    Us (Peele, 2019) ***1/2
    Fugue (Smoczynska, 2018) ***1/2
    Prisoners (Villeneuve, 2013) ***1/2
    Shadow (Zhang, 2018) ***
    Oslo, August 31st (J. Trier, 2011) ****
    Climax (Noé, 2018) **1/2
    Fighting With My Family (Merchant, 2019) **
    Upstream Color (Carruth, 2013) ***

  15. #56190
    the one, the only. . . SirNewt's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Sven isn't a parent.

    And I don't really do a whole lot of shielding. I just try to make sure he gets variety in his activities. Reading, going outside, etc. I'll steer him towards the stuff I think is good, but I don't think I've ever told him he couldn't watch something because it was 'manic'.

    I mean, we also watch Monty Python together. That's kind of manic and catering to the ADD mentality, isn't it?

    If he has the patience for something like 2001, my best guess is that it is because I read him lots and lots of books at bedtime.
    Thanks, my girlfriend is due in a few weeks (her son not mine) and this is something I'm really curious about. When he's older I want to encourage him to be curious about a wide variety of things and not just whatever fad is going on at school.

    A good friend of mine had kids. One month they were into Spider Man and had to have everything Spider Man. The next it was Star Wars. It kinda drove me nuts. But I'm not sure what is realistic to expect. Or even how much I should give in and let the kid do what he wants.





  16. #56191
    neurotic subjectivist B-side's Avatar
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    I don't really recommend people specific films, so I'll just throw it out there that I think a few folks here would really enjoy Waiting for Happiness, more specifically folks like Boner or soitgoes -- the types who enjoy that kind of observational French/Asian quotidian stuff. Of course, neither the film nor the director are Asian or French. The director and the film are Mauritanian, and the director was trained in Russia, but I doubt you'd know that from watching it. Anywho, it's a beautiful film. Quietly tragic. But not without a very dry sense of humor. Plus, it's pretty:




    Last 5 Viewed
    Riddick (David Twohy | 2013 | USA/UK)
    Night Across the Street (Raoul Ruiz | 2012 | Chile/France)*
    Pain & Gain (Michael Bay | 2013 | USA)*
    You're Next (Adam Wingard | 2011 | USA)
    Little Odessa (James Gray | 1994 | USA)*

    *recommended *highly recommended

    “It isn't easy to accept that suffering can also be beautiful... it's difficult. It's something you can only understand if you dig deeply into yourself.” -- Rainer Werner Fassbinder

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  17. #56192
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    Quote Quoting Watashi (view post)
    I can't imagine a 9-year old staying awake during 2001.
    It's easy enough-- just tie him to a chair and pry his eyeballs open, Clockwork Orange style.

  18. #56193
    A Platypus Grouchy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting SirNewt (view post)
    A good friend of mine had kids. One month they were into Spider Man and had to have everything Spider Man. The next it was Star Wars. It kinda drove me nuts. But I'm not sure what is realistic to expect. Or even how much I should give in and let the kid do what he wants.
    Bah, I was the same as a kid. I probably had longer periods of excitement about stuff, say about six months to a year, but I was pretty similar. First it was dinosaurs, then space, then detective stories. Every single discovery replaced the previous one. I think that's normal.

    I think about the best thing you can do with a kid is get them to read a lot without forcing them to. Waking up their interest on things, but not cutting them off anything - fads are fads. My mother used to try to get me out of reading comics for a long time, even forbidding me to read the ones I already had. That didn't work out too good.

  19. #56194
    Avatar Thief Robby P's Avatar
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    I haven't seen Paradise Lost but in case you haven't heard the three subjects of the documentary are on the verge of being exonerated 18 years later. Sounds like HBO is going to air the third part of the documentary in November.

  20. #56195
    Evil mind, evil sword. Ivan Drago's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Robby P (view post)
    I haven't seen Paradise Lost but in case you haven't heard the three subjects of the documentary are on the verge of being exonerated 18 years later. Sounds like HBO is going to air the third part of the documentary in November.
    The West Memphis Three are free? FUCK YEAH!
    Last Five Films I've Seen (Out of 5)

    The Boy, The Mole, The Fox and the Horse (Mackesy, 2022) 4.5
    Puss In Boots: The Last Wish (Crawford, 2022) 4
    Confess, Fletch (Mottola, 2022) 3.5
    M3GAN (Johnstone, 2023) 3.5
    Turning Red (Shi, 2022) 4.5
    Tokyo Story (Ozu, 1953) 5

    615 Film
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  21. #56196
    White Tiger Field Stay Puft's Avatar
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    I hope Brightside is holding up today... Raul Ruiz has passed away. He was working on a couple new films, too.
    Giving up in 2020. Who cares.

    maɬni – towards the ocean, towards the shore (Sky Hopinka) ***½
    Without Remorse (Stefano Sollima) *½
    The Marksman (Robert Lorenz) **
    Beckett (Ferdinando Cito Filomarino) *½
    Night Hunter (David Raymond) *

  22. #56197
    Brightened; Ive actually been meaning to give either WfH or Bamako a go; I've always been afraid African cinema would be too worthy/dull so I admittedly never bothered w/ either. Your direct reco has changed that.

  23. #56198
    ^abysmal post; still getting used to forum posting on my phone

  24. #56199
    A Bonerfied Classic Derek's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Boner M (view post)
    ^abysmal post; still getting used to forum posting on my phone
    It's okay. It brightened my day a little.

  25. #56200
    sleepy soitgoes...'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Derek (view post)
    Black Test Car (Matsumoto, 1962) ***½
    I haven't seen this one yet, but I'm a huge fan of Matsumoto, so this is great to see.

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