28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Spinal]

Sad, lonely vote for Zelig.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Sad, lonely vote for Zelig.

This would be very close, and actually made my top 100 way back when we had our thread. Though at the time I hadn't seen Stardust Memories.

[Boner M]

Curse of the Jade Scorpion is my dad's favorite. He didn't like Manhattan.

[Ivan Drago]

Manhattan for me, with...:gulp:...Match Point at a close second. But I really want to see more from Allen.

[Boner M]

I like Stardust Memories more than 8½.

[Rowland]

I loved Manhattan at the time of my first and only viewing some 8-9 years ago, but I can't recall much about it beyond the most iconic moments. My unoriginal favorites, Crimes and Misdemeanors and Annie Hall, have stuck more forcefully with me over the years, though I have to confess that my exposure to classic Allen is woefully limited.

[Winston*]

Kind of want to say The Purple Rose of Cairo.

[soitgoes...]

Annie Hall. But really though, Allen only had a few missteps over the next twenty plus years.

[Boner M]

Kind of want to say The Purple Rose of Cairo.

That's one of the 5 or so titles I could say depending on mood. Don't have a clear favorite.

[Irish]

Annie Hall, by far. Inventive, creative, and one of the few where Allen really describes the confusion around modern relationships well.

Manhattan bugs me. Great photographs, but if you see it enough to get past that, the movie is almost all walk and talk bullshit. It's dramatically inert outside of Hemingway's character (the only one who is genuine and human), and she's not in it enough. Will say the final dialogue is top-tier Allen, though.

Stardust Memories is lazy. It's a rehashing of ground Allen has already well covered under a patina of Fellini. Really, if you're going to be "influenced" by someone that much, try not to make it so obvious.

But generally, anything he made under Orion's banner is worth watching. He had just enough drive and money to be interesting. After that, not so much.

[transmogrifier]

Kind of want to say The Purple Rose of Cairo.

My favourites:

1. Husbands and Wives
2. THe Purple Rose of Cairo
3. Annie Hall
4. Hannah and Her Sisters
5. Everyone Says I Love You

[transmogrifier]

Stardust Memories is lazy. It's a rehashing of ground Allen has already well covered under a patina of Fellini. Really, if you're going to be "influenced" by someone that much, try not to make it so obvious.

I like how being wrong doesn't bother you - you just plow on through the paragraph regardless.

In 1980, he was rehashing all the old ground covered by Bananas, Love and Death, Sleeper, Annie Hall, Interiors, and Manhattan? Is that your story?

[Irish]

In 1980, he was rehashing all the old ground covered by Bananas, Love and Death, Sleeper, Annie Hall, Interiors, and Manhattan? Is that your story?

I like how you can be so literal and still post such a ridiculous question with a straight face. I know you're not stupid, trans, so why do you insist on acting like it?

Allen's main concern with Annie Hall, Manhattan, and Stardust Memories is romantic relationships. But what did he say about them in Stardust that wasn't already well covered by the other two? Nothing.

The rest of the movie either heavily borrows from Fellini or from his own material. The whole project comes off sterile and uninspired.

[transmogrifier]

I like how you can be so literal and still post such a ridiculous question with a straight face. I know you're not stupid, trans, so why do you insist on acting like it?

Allen's main concern with Annie Hall, Manhattan, and Stardust Memories is romantic relationships. But what did he say about them in Stardust that wasn't already well covered by the other two? Nothing.

The rest of the movie either heavily borrows from Fellini or from his own material. The whole project comes off sterile and uninspired.

So, two movies about failed relationships = well-covered? And the fact that Stardust Memories is a mediation on artistic direction and motives? And the fact that it is gorgeously photographed and directed? Oh no, wait, another director once photographed another movie beautifully and worked with misshapen extras, and so therefore every other movie that dares to be similar is immediately worthless.

Try watching the movie for itself, rather than using it as an intellectual exercise in "Oh, I know who did THIS first" smugness.

[Qrazy]

I like Stardust Memories more than 8½.

Unacceptable.

[Irish]

So, two movies about failed relationships = well-covered?

When the two movies in question are Annie Hall and Manhattan, yes. Compounding the problem is that these were all made within 3 years of one another, practically back to back.

And the fact that Stardust Memories is a mediation on artistic direction and motives? And the fact that it is gorgeously photographed and directed? Oh no, wait, another director once photographed another movie beautifully and worked with misshapen extras, and so therefore every other movie that dares to be similar is immediately worthless.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth and reading things into my statements that aren't there.

It's not so much that Allen borrows the trappings of Fellini. It's that he doesn't do anything new or interesting with them. He offers no fresh insights with Stardust and doesn't offer any kind of differing viewpoint.

All of the dialogue (much of which is really monologue) is on-the-nose. He spouts off his themes directly, and gives the movie a set up that allows him to be a talking head with a microphone and a podium and tell the audience exactly what his movie is about. There's absolutely no subtlety at all. In that kind of environment, there's no room for characters or drama, either (I can't think of another Allen movie where the female characters are so thinly drawn).

Any time he gets even a shade close to emotional truth or real intimacy or an interesting idea, he immediately cuts to broad, slapsticky humor that's straight out of stuff like Sleepers and Young Frankenstein. So even the comedy here is shoe horned in.

I find it shallow and uninspired, pure hack work. A mish mosh of borrowed ideas, and considering that it's coming on the heals of Annie and Manhattan, a weak effort.

Does it look great? Sure. Are some of the jokes funny? Yes. But that's not enough.

[transmogrifier]

When the two movies in question are Annie Hall and Manhattan, yes. Compounding the problem is that these were all made within 3 years of one another, practically back to back.



Now you're just putting words in my mouth and reading things into my statements that aren't there.

It's not so much that Allen borrows the trappings of Fellini. It's that he doesn't do anything new or interesting with them. He offers no fresh insights with Stardust and doesn't offer any kind of differing viewpoint.

All of the dialogue (much of which is really monologue) is on-the-nose. He spouts off his themes directly, and gives the movie a set up that allows him to be a talking head with a microphone and a podium and tell the audience exactly what his movie is about. There's absolutely no subtlety at all. In that kind of environment, there's no room for characters or drama, either (I can't think of another Allen movie where the female characters are so thinly drawn).

Any time he gets even a shade close to emotional truth or real intimacy or an interesting idea, he immediately cuts to broad, slapsticky humor that's straight out of stuff like Sleepers and Young Frankenstein. So even the comedy here is shoe horned in.

I find it shallow and uninspired, pure hack work. A mish mosh of borrowed ideas, and considering that it's coming on the heals of Annie and Manhattan, a weak effort.

Does it look great? Sure. Are some of the jokes funny? Yes. But that's not enough.

So many words. So much wrong. But my favourite part is labelling a B&W homage to Fellini as hack-work.

[Irish]

So many words. So much wrong. But my favourite part is labelling a B&W homage to Fellini as hack-work.

I'm not seeing a counter argument here. Did you actually have something to say or are you just trying to stroke your own ego?

[transmogrifier]

I'm not seeing a counter argument here. Did you actually have something to say or are you just trying to stroke your own ego?

The latter, probably. Though the extent of my ego-stroking has little or no bearing on the extent of your wrongness.

[Irish]

The latter, probably. Though the extent of my ego-stroking has little or no bearing on the extent of your wrongness.

You're right. Part of my post was wrong -- the bit where I said you were intelligent is starting to seem misguided now.

[transmogrifier]

You're right. Part of my post was wrong -- the bit where I said you were intelligent is starting to seem misguided now.

To tell the truth, I haven't seen it for a while, so I have no specifics really to offer. All I wanted to point out is that I had almost the exact opposite reaction to you. I found it a stylish evaluation of the artistic impulse and the relationship between art and the audience. Plus the jump cut scene with Rampling is awesome.

[Irish]

To tell the truth, I haven't seen it for a while, so I have no specifics really to offer. All I wanted to point out is that I had almost the exact opposite reaction to you. I found it a stylish evaluation of the artistic impulse and the relationship between art and the audience. Plus the jump cut scene with Rampling is awesome.

I've been rewatching bits and pieces of it as we've gone back and forth. I love how he keeps the frame on a single character (usually female) and doesn't cut back and forth during dialogue. (There's a great sequence where he and Isabelle are in their bedroom at night, and he's trying to convince her to move in with him and she starts doing weird facial exercises in the middle of the conversation. Allen keeps the camera on her the entire time).

I couldn't agree more that the jumpcut Rampling is fantastic. It's stark, raw, real.

But right there is part of my beef with the movie -- from Rampling he cuts abruptly to the scene where Allen/Sandy encounters aliens in the woods. It's funny as hell ("By earth standards, I have an IQ of 1600 and even I couldn't understand what you expected from that relationship with Dorrie"). The contrast, the odd juxtaposition of the two together, feels forced and almost bizarre, as if Allen wants to have his dramatic-comedy cake and eat it too.

But yeah, it's a wonderfully looking movie. I just can't help but cringe anytime anybody in it opens their mouth.

TL;DR: Absolutely agree that the movie is well shot and well directed, I just wish it were more substantive substantial.

[Dukefrukem]

Eyes Without A Face - masterful! Impressive use of camera work to hide some of the gruesomely implied surgery scenes.

[Boner M]

I haven't seen Stardust Memories in too long to debate the specifics, but I don't see how its similarities to 8½ detracts from it - I just remember it as being intensely in-dialogue with Fellini's film rather than lazily derivative of it (unlike, says, Interiors' Bergman pillaging).

[Mara]

Eyes Without A Face - masterful! Impressive use of camera work to hide some of the gruesomely implied surgery scenes.

They were totally gross.

Great film, though.