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Thread: 28 Film Discussion Threads Later

  1. #54401
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Okay, so now I've seen every single Star Trek movie in the course of two days. Brain overload. I'd seen three before (Khan, Generations, the preboot), so this is what I've learned.

    1) The even-numbered films are generally more fun and generally more slight. Khan and Nemesis deal with villains out for revenge. Voyage Home plays its story dominantly as a culture clash. First Contact alternates between zombie filmmaking, body-snatchery, and time-travel adventuring, its emphasis chiefly on fast-paced thrills and laughs. Undiscovered Country softens its allegorical edges with an old-fashioned whodunit.

    2) The odd-numbered films try to place religious concepts in sci-fi premises. The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier are about quests for God. The Search for Spock begins on an Eden and ends with an ornate ritual (sacrament?) that culminates in a resurrection. Generations reworks Heaven as an aberration in space and time. Even Insurrection deals with a culture of near-immortals living in a paradise of sorts. The cool thing is how these ideas (and their implementation in this genre) recall Clarke's famous line: any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. It allows the series to wrap transcendent ideas in explicable packages. Savvy, to say the least.

    3) The general tenor of the series alternates between hard sci-fi and Buck Rogers fantasy. The opposite ends lie where we are right now, with The Motion Picture as a portentous tale that purposefully emphasizes the Earthly quest for knowledge as nearly divine...and the preboot focusing exclusively on quick-cut shoot-outs and the rapid assembly of its cast for an iconographic finish that functions less as a conclusion than a promise that better adventures will follow. The film that best unites these two approaches is Undiscovered Country, since it offers both a fun murder mystery and a political story about acceptance and forgiveness.

    4) Khan, Search for Spock, and The Voyage Home have a nice continuity between them. On its own, I don't think Search for Spock would be worth much, but it's a vital link and helps restore the series to status quo after the disruptive Khan.

    5) Insurrection deals with a villain who wants to displace six hundred near-immortals so he can have the secret for immortality. The stakes, however, feel very low, because the near-immortals only risk...displacement. The film would be twice as good if the villain wanted to abduct them all and conduct grotesque experiments to "discover" the secret of life (as well as punish them for having what he hasn't). This idea has precedence, as he and his followers look like science experiments themselves.

    6) Tom Hardy makes Nemesis better than Insurrection. Otherwise, the weaknesses (bad character development, limp first acts, too much swashbuckling) are remarkably similar.

    7) Final Frontier is not for lack of ambition. But it is for lack of focus. It splatters William Shatner's neuroses and passions all over the screen and leaves us to sort it into a meaningful statement. I think that statement is this: Shatner likes the woods, loves riding horses, and isn't afraid of a little thing like God.

    8) Generations is slightly better than I remember, and that comes from Stewart's Picard and McDowell's Soran, who play their roles with more gravity and passion than the story really earns.

    9) When I watched the preboot for the first time, I thought it was unfortunate that Uhura had nothing to do. My assumption was that she had more to do in the older films. My assumption was wrong. She does nothing. What a shame. There's a somewhat embarrassing boys' club mentality to all these films, with women on the Enterprise almost never impacting the action or story in interesting ways. That job's left to one-offs like Catherine Hicks in Voyage Home, Kim Cattrall in Undiscovered Country, and, best of all, Alice Krige as the Borg Queen in First Contact. Oh my.

    10) Abrams's camerawork clashes so severely with the otherwise stately photography used in the previous films (excluding Frontier's continual camera tracking) that I had trouble watching at times. Lens flares, yes, but also the overabundance of shaky-cam.

    11) I would rank them...

    Voyage Home
    Wrath of Khan
    First Contact
    Star Trek
    The Undiscovered Country
    The Motion Picture
    Generations
    The Search for Spock
    Nemesis
    Insurrection
    The Final Frontier


    Those last three are actively bad. The rest range from near-great to good. None of these movies earned my love, but more than enough of them earned my respect. This is an honorable series.

  2. #54402
    Screenwriter Philosophe_rouge's Avatar
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    Dangerous to feel addictive compulsions towards a film you can't access easily. Feel that way about Un 32 Aout sur Terre (Denis Villeneuve, 1998). I feel that way about his later film, Maelstrom, which I have on a bi-monthly rotation. Unfortunately for me, Un 32 Aout... is not available on dvd at the moment. I imagine the old copy floating around is not of particularly good quality either. Even downloads are few and far between. So so so so good though. I've seen all his features, now to move onto a couple of shorts. I definetely prefer the enigmatic and fantastic romanticism of his early work over his more recent serious-cinema, but as far as I'm concerned, he hasn't had a miss yet in his work.
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  3. #54403
    Here till the end MadMan's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting EyesWideOpen (view post)
    I can understand people differentiating between best and favorite. Moulin Rouge is one of my favorite movies. Would I consider it one of the best movies ever, um no.
    At least one person gets it. Thanks.

    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    If I Were to post the ManMan gif here, you have no right to be angry.
    I wouldn't be angry, I'd be confused.

    Quote Quoting Boner M (view post)
    I don't know what's so hard to understand about MadMan's position. Best = most accomplished / Favorite = worst. Pretty simple, really.
    Well if you want to be wrong about it, and completely misunderstand my explanation, then sure :P

    Quote Quoting StanleyK (view post)
    It's hard to understand because it implies that you are making two separate judgments on movies, one subjective, and the other from an objective viewpoint. As Winston* says, the latter is impossible, for Wallace & Gromit or any other movie.
    Not really.

    Quote Quoting Raiders (view post)
    Ah, MadMan. He's probably not the best poster, but he is usually my favorite.
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  4. #54404
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Best: "I feel I can intellectually defend what I love."
    Favorite: "I got nothing."

  5. #54405
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    I understand how you can differentiate between favourite and best when it's Sunrise:A Song of Two Humans and Anaconda, or something. Whatever. I just want to know how you differentiate favourite and best within Wallace and Gromit movies.

  6. #54406
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    Nostalgic value trumping merit?
    Letterboxd rating scale:
    The Long Riders (Hill) ***
    Furious 7 (Wan) **½
    Hard Times (Hill) ****½
    Another 48 Hrs. (Hill) ***
    /48 Hrs./ (Hill) ***½
    The Extraordinary Adventures of Adèle Blanc-Sec (Besson) ***
    /Unknown/ (Collet-Serra) ***½
    Animal (Simmons) **

  7. #54407
    It's basically this:

    "Best" - I'm sure others like this as well
    "Favourite" - I'm a little embarrassed to like this
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  8. #54408
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    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)
    Best: "I feel I can intellectually defend what I love."
    Favorite: "I got nothing."
    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    "Best" - I'm sure others like this as well
    "Favourite" - I'm a little embarrassed to like this
    So then what would you say is the difference between "favorite" and "guilty pleasure"?

    Also, trans, your rating on Seconds is a dagger to the heart.

  9. #54409
    Here till the end MadMan's Avatar
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    To me, best=best and favorite=favorite :P
    BLOG

    And everybody wants to be special here
    They call your name out loud and clear
    Here comes a regular
    Call out your name
    Here comes a regular
    Am I the only one here today?



  10. #54410
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    Quote Quoting MadMan (view post)
    To me, best=best and favorite=favorite :P
    Hush, you. You've caused enough trouble already! :P

  11. #54411
    A Bonerfied Classic Derek's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    So then what would you say is the difference between "favorite" and "guilty pleasure"?
    More importantly, what's the difference between "best guilty pleasure" and "favorite guilty pleasure" and when's this topic going to die?

  12. #54412
    Winston* Classic Winston*'s Avatar
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    Quote Quoting MadMan (view post)
    To me, best=best and favorite=favorite :P
    Answer me, motherfucker!

  13. #54413
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    Also, trans, your rating on Seconds is a dagger to the heart.
    Well, learn not to dislike great films and messageboards will be easier to navigate for you.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  14. #54414
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    So then what would you say is the difference between "favorite" and "guilty pleasure"?
    Is there a difference? I don't know - I'm not the one equivocating like a muthaf**ker
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  15. #54415
    Here till the end MadMan's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Winston* (view post)
    Answer me, motherfucker!
    If I told you, I'd have to kill you. The site needs you, Winston. Why I donno, but its needs you.
    BLOG

    And everybody wants to be special here
    They call your name out loud and clear
    Here comes a regular
    Call out your name
    Here comes a regular
    Am I the only one here today?



  16. #54416
    pushing too many pencils Rowland's Avatar
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    Bertrand Tavernier's The Princess of Montpensier opened in my area this week, I think I'm gonna check it out. D'Angelo trashed it at Cannes last year, but it received a rave from Pinkerton, some very solid responses from other sources I keep tabs on, and Tavernier's Coup de Torchon is one of the films I'm still highly anticipating on my 1981 queue, so seeing two works by the same filmmaker made three decades apart should be interesting.
    Letterboxd rating scale:
    The Long Riders (Hill) ***
    Furious 7 (Wan) **½
    Hard Times (Hill) ****½
    Another 48 Hrs. (Hill) ***
    /48 Hrs./ (Hill) ***½
    The Extraordinary Adventures of Adèle Blanc-Sec (Besson) ***
    /Unknown/ (Collet-Serra) ***½
    Animal (Simmons) **

  17. #54417
    sleepy soitgoes...'s Avatar
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    I'm not one to change my favorite/best film. It's been the same for years now, but after my third re-watch, I can say without a doubt I have a new favorite film. Mind Game. Holy fuck I love this movie.

  18. #54418
    but always sincere dmk's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Rowland (view post)
    Bertrand Tavernier's The Princess of Montpensier opened in my area this week, I think I'm gonna check it out. D'Angelo trashed it at Cannes last year, but it received a rave from Pinkerton, some very solid responses from other sources I keep tabs on, and Tavernier's Coup de Torchon is one of the films I'm still highly anticipating on my 1981 queue, so seeing two works by the same filmmaker made three decades apart should be interesting.
    I bought a ticket for this today, but I arrived late, couldn't find a seat, and it looked like a digital projection, so I exchanged it for a later showing of Snowtown instead, which made me feel guilty as first, because I hate to pay for [mediocre] local product, but I no longer think it's mediocre post-research and I look forward to seeing it again.

    Princess of Montpensier looked pretty good though, and the DVD comes out here in a week anyway. I'll make a day of it.

    Also, I really like D'Angelo, but I do think he's a finicky temperamental bitch, with all due respect.

  19. #54419
    The Pan Qrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting StanleyK (view post)
    Nope; but whateva, if separating best from favorite keeps you happy, then we can just agree to disagree.

    [
    ]
    I know for a fact you have changed your rating on repeat viewings so yes, actually.
    The Princess and the Pilot - B-
    Playtime (rewatch) - A
    The Hobbit - C-
    The Comedy - D+
    Kings of the Road - C+
    The Odd Couple - B
    Red Rock West - C-
    The Hunger Games - D-
    Prometheus - C
    Tangled - C+

  20. #54420
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dead & Messed Up (view post)

    Voyage Home
    Wrath of Khan
    First Contact
    Star Trek
    The Undiscovered Country
    The Motion Picture
    Generations
    The Search for Spock
    Nemesis
    Insurrection
    The Final Frontier


    Those last three are actively bad. The rest range from near-great to good. None of these movies earned my love, but more than enough of them earned my respect. This is an honorable series.
    Other than the religious tie in that you seem to find interesting, What other redeeming qualities do you see in The Motion Picture? The pacing is terrible and makes the film unwatchable.
    Twitch / Youtube / Film Diary

    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
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    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  21. #54421
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    The Motion Picture is awesome and creepy as hell.
    "All right, that's too hot. Anything we can do about that heat?"

    "Rick...it's a flamethrower."

  22. #54422
    The Motion Picture has some stunning visual effects. Credit is due to Douglas Trumbull (who also did the effects for 2001, Close Encounters and Blade Runner). The editing is a problem, though. I think the filmmakers wanted to show off the visual effects too much, so there's a long, long sequence when they're traveling through V'ger and nothing else is happening. I had a similar problem with 2001.

    The Undiscovered Country is my favorite. It's the only one that seems to remember the politics of the original show. So many of the movies had some rogue villain acting separately from any larger force. The villain in Star Trek III, for example, is a Klingon but is not acting on behalf the Klingon empire; he's just acting for himself. While Undiscovered Country also has a rogue villain, it at least remembers that there is a whole Klingon Empire. One of my favorite episodes of Star Trek is "Errand of Mercy," the first episode to show Klingons. That episode shows that the Klingon Empire is a military dictatorship capable of conquering whole planets. The Undiscovered Country knows that the Klingon Empire is not just one person, but a whole empire of people.

  23. #54423
    The Pan Spinal's Avatar
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    Watching 11 straight Star Trek movies is how I will spend my first day in hell.
    Coming to America (Landis, 1988) **
    The Beach Bum (Korine, 2019) *1/2
    Us (Peele, 2019) ***1/2
    Fugue (Smoczynska, 2018) ***1/2
    Prisoners (Villeneuve, 2013) ***1/2
    Shadow (Zhang, 2018) ***
    Oslo, August 31st (J. Trier, 2011) ****
    Climax (Noé, 2018) **1/2
    Fighting With My Family (Merchant, 2019) **
    Upstream Color (Carruth, 2013) ***

  24. #54424
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    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Watching 11 straight Star Trek movies is how I will spend my first day in hell.
    No, I've already spoke to the Devil. Your first day in hell is going to be spent watching Hot Tub Time Machine on a loop.

  25. #54425
    Moderator Dead & Messed Up's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Other than the religious tie in that you seem to find interesting, What other redeeming qualities do you see in The Motion Picture? The pacing is terrible and makes the film unwatchable.
    Terrific effects work, a quiet attitude reminiscent of the early seventies sci-fi-ers like Silent Running and THX, a genuinely cool twist, and Wise's stately direction. Not the best flick, but a good flick.

    Quote Quoting Spinal (view post)
    Watching 11 straight Star Trek movies is how I will spend my first day in hell.
    Overall, I liked the series, but watching them all in two days is not recommended to anyone. Ever. Also, you quickly learn that the two most dominant ideas in all the movies are (a) laser blasts knocking the bridge out of balance and blowing up a console...and (b) people asking for permission to speak freely, and that permission (phew!) being granted.

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