28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[transmogrifier]

Batman Begins is easily Nolan's worst movie. It is so poorly put together.

[Skitch]

See, this argument makes sense, and I can understand where you're coming from here.

But when someone's argument boils down to a simple "it wasn't like the source material", I don't think that argument means much of anything.

My problem is I've these things so many times, I can never remember to whom I said them, so I forget people don't always know I've said them.

Don't do drugs, kids.

[megladon8]

Batman Begins is easily Nolan's worst movie. It is so poorly put together.

Do you mean in terms of editing ('put together")?

[Qrazy]

I like the atmosphere Nolan creates in all of his films. I like Nolan. I like Batman Begins. I like The Dark Knight. Neither is a great film, but they're still two of the best Superhero films. A rewatch of Burton's Batman a few years ago revealed it to be a fairly crappy film. But it has a couple of quality moments. People who criticize the fight scenes in Batman Begins and praise those in Batman are drinking the kool-aid. Nolan is a much more interesting filmmaker than Burton. Ed Wood is good though.

[balmakboor]

I'm definitely with you on Begins though I like The Dark Knight a lot.

Ooh, I forgot that Tetro was out on DVD.

Anyway, I should watch Dark Knight again. My first impressions were that Begins was well put together, but boring and ponderous. Dark Knight was a shambles, but entertaining.

Err, "put together" as in structured and edited.

[Raiders]

Are we really talking about this film still? I mean, besides meg. Really?

[Derek]

Are we really talking about this film still? I mean, besides meg. Really?

It started with bitching about the over-exposure and endless hype/talk surrounding superhero movies which then led to discussions about various overdiscussed superhero movies. Oh the irony. Wait, trans?

[Sven]

In a weird way, it seems like the people who criticize Nolan's Batman films are actually the ones that are too tied to comic book mythology and how a comic book character should be portrayed. Like Davis, I appreciate The Dark Knight like I would appreciate a film like Heat. But would anyone ever say that Heat takes itself too seriously?

I don't like the movie and I have zero interest in a film's fidelity to comic book characterization.

Also, I think Heat takes itself seriously. It's heavy and dour, typical of Mann.

[Sven]

People who criticize the fight scenes in Batman Begins and praise those in Batman are drinking the kool-aid.

You are implying that Burton's films exemplify the criticisms thrust at Nolan's. Either that or making some broad categorical dismissal based on your own historically questionable "good" and "bad" distinctions. Either way your post is incorrect. I don't know if I'd necessarily "praise the fights" in Burton's Batman films, per se, but there's definitely a whole lot less to object to. Primarily, Burton's Batman fistfights (of which, there are comparatively few, and almost none in the second film) feature action one can follow.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm wondering if I should make it a western weekend or a sci-fi weekend. On the one hand, I've got Rio Bravo and Stagecoach (both new views) to consider. On the other hand, I've got THX-1138 and The Iron Giant (also new views). I'd ask you guys to tell me what I should watch, but that'd be so RT.

I think I'm gonna western it up.

[MadMan]

Well yeah, I liked his take on the Penguin, and sure Catwomen was hot. Maybe I'll give the movie another chance sometime-I'll admit that the weirdness of it all was a bit too off putting, even for me.

[youtube]_W_szJ6M-kM[/youtube]

Whoa, that was great. I realized I've seen alot of those. You'd think by now that would be an Oscar montage :P

DaMu, I haven't see either of the sci-fi movies. But Stagecoach and Rio Bravo are among the best westerns ever made, so yes watch those. Plus I'm biased heavily in favor of the western genre anyways.

[transmogrifier]

It started with bitching about the over-exposure and endless hype/talk surrounding superhero movies which then led to discussions about various overdiscussed superhero movies. Oh the irony. Wait, trans?

No, not irony. It was bound to happen.

[transmogrifier]

Do you mean in terms of editing ('put together")?

Story structure, editing, action choreography.

[Watashi]

City of Hope (Sayles, 1991) ***

Nice. I love the closing scene.

[Boner M]

I was recently offered a gig as guest reviewer/reporter for the Sydney Film Festival's blog, meaning I get to see everything there for free. I also get to interview guests and be an entertainment-reporter-type blowhard as well, although so far Jonah Hill and Brillante Mendoza are the only names I recognise so far on the list of visitors. Still, pretty sweet... hope it leads to bigger things for me.

So far, here's what I'm seeing...

Hadewijch (Dumont)
Heartbeats
Howl
A Woman Under the Influence (restored print)
Life During Wartime
La Danse (Wiseman)
The Loved Ones
To Die Like a Man
The Ghost Writer
City of Life and Death
Two in the Wave
Lola (Mendoza)
I Killed My Mother
Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives (WEERASETHAKUL!!!)
Cyrus
Police, Adjective
The Killer Inside Me
I Am Love
White Material (Denis)
Senso (restored)
Wasted on the Young

[Ezee E]

Congrats Boner. Good luck with that.

[Qrazy]

You are implying that Burton's films exemplify the criticisms thrust at Nolan's. Either that or making some broad categorical dismissal based on your own historically questionable "good" and "bad" distinctions. Either way your post is incorrect. I don't know if I'd necessarily "praise the fights" in Burton's Batman films, per se, but there's definitely a whole lot less to object to. Primarily, Burton's Batman fistfights (of which, there are comparatively few, and almost none in the second film) feature action one can follow.

No I'm not really making that implication at all but your broad categorical inferences and ad hominem attacks are historically questionable, so no surprise there. I'm saying that the fighting in Batman is even worse than Begins, not that the fighting is similar or that the criticisms of the two are similar. Begins has it's moments of shaky cam mediocrity but it also has it's fair share of engaging choreography. The action choreography in Burton's Batman is terribly stilted, presumably because Keaton can barely move in his costume.

[Sven]

No I'm not really making that implication at all

I said "either that or...". Either you implied that or were being categorical.

I'm saying that the fighting in Batman is even worse than Begins

Ah, see. Categorical. Sorry about the ad hominem, but I figured that one so historically prone to ad hominem as yourself could take it.

The action choreography in Burton's Batman is terribly stilted, presumably because Keaton can barely move in his costume.

I think Burton worked around that limitation very nicely. Gave Batman a more believable stoicism, at any rate.

[Ezee E]

Weekend:
The Seventh Continent
Secrets & Lies
Shop on Main Street

Iron Man 2

[Raiders]

The action choreography in Burton's Batman is terribly stilted, presumably because Keaton can barely move in his costume.

This is true. The sequence where he makes his way to up the belltower fighting off the Joker's men is full of this. Though I do believe part of it in that sequence is he is still reeling from the crash.

[D_Davis]

Batman Begins is easily Nolan's worst movie. It is so poorly put together.

For sure.

[B-side]

So far, here's what I'm seeing...

Hadewijch (Dumont)
A Woman Under the Influence (restored print)
Life During Wartime
Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives (WEERASETHAKUL!!!)
White Material (Denis)

So jealous.

Anyway, good luck, man.

[Qrazy]

I think Burton worked around that limitation very nicely. Gave Batman a more believable stoicism, at any rate.

Ehh I don't know if I feel that his immobility translates well to stoicism but...

Anyway, the film is not without it's pleasures I agree with you there (great art design, memorable performances), but for me the action choreography isn't one of them. So all I'm saying is that when people say (and I've had the Batman vs Batman convo a few times now)... 'Man Burton's Batman was so much better than Begins' and then follow that up with a major critique of the action choreography in Nolan's Begins... to me that suggests that Burton's action choreography is significantly better and personally I don't find it to be so.

Tangentially the film has a number of those distinctly 80s flourishes which I've lambasted in the past. Can't stand that era.

[Grouchy]

The action choreography in Burton's Batman is terribly stilted, presumably because Keaton can barely move in his costume.

I've seen the movie again very recently and this is 110% correct. The action is very badly edited and Batman's stiff suit looks ridiculous when fighting.

D&MU, I suggest the western weekend. You got two real classics there.

[Boner M]

Side Street was awesome. One of the most beautifully photographed noirs I've seen (that backlighting!), and Mann seems hell-bent on making every scene feels as lived-in as possible. Loved the wordless final scene (excluding the voiceover, which is probably the film's only real liabaility)... kept waiting for one of the cops to get the final capper line and was relieved when they didn't. In fact, I wish more noirs ended that way... the only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Siegel's The Lineup.