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Thread: 28 Film Discussion Threads Later

  1. #69526
    1. Aliens (93)
    2. Titanic (74)
    3. Terminator 2 (71)
    4. The Terminator (70)
    5. The Abyss (69)
    6. Avatar (65)
    7. True Lies (41)
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  2. #69527
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    Even if I rarely consider Cameron among my favorite directors, I realize I never rate the guy's films (sans his Piranha one) lower than 4/5. All of these need rewatches though, since I last saw a film of his back when Avatar was in theater.

    1. Aliens
    2. Titanic
    3. The Terminator
    4. Terminator 2
    5. Avatar
    6. True Lies
    7. The Abyss
    Midnight Run (1988) - 9
    The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) - 8.5
    The Adventures of Robinhood (1938) - 8
    Sisters (1973) - 6.5
    Shin Godzilla (2016) - 7.5

  3. #69528
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Hard disagree there. The comedy stuff is excellent and it's probably his best action film.
    Better action than Aliens and T2? A huge stretch no? But it's a pretty great action comedy overall. More exciting than most 90's actioners and certainly funnier than most Comedies.
    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

    • Dark (S3) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Fall (Mann, 2022) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Ms. Marvel (S1) ✦½ [+]
    • Dark (S2) ✦✦✦✦
    • Moon Knight (S1) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Get Carter (Hodges, 1971) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Prey (Trachtenberg, 2022) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Black Bird (S1) ✦✦✦✦
    • Better Call Saul (S6) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Halo (S1) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Slow Horses (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • H4Z4RD (Govaerts, 2022/BE) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Gangs of London (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • We Own This City (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Thor: Love and Thunder (Waititi, 2022) ✦✦ [+]


  4. #69529
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    Quote Quoting Yxklyx (view post)
    So, I started to watch The Magnificent Seven (1960). I hadn't seen it a very long time ago - and have seen Seven Samurai about 5 times since then... you know remakes can work if they have some original thought in them but this 1960 movie is one of the cheapest scripts I've ever seen filmed. It's total plagiarism with nothing original in it at all. It plays like a Reader's Digest version of the original. After about 20 minutes I stopped it and popped in Seven Samurai.
    This was my reaction when I rewatched it a year or so ago, too. I like the celebrity of "Magnificent 7" (most of the cast consisted of TV actors who went on to bigger things). I also enjoyed Eli Wallach.

    But the movie on the whole ... kinda sucks. It's very definitely Cliffs Notes/ Readers Digest on the source material and it plays as extremely superficial.

    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    Hard disagree there. The comedy stuff is excellent and it's probably his best action film.
    Haven't seen "True Lies" in a looooooong time, but the truck gag/ L.A. river sequence in "Judgement Day" is better than anything in "True Lies."

    Hell, even the stop motion stuff in "Terminator" is more memorable and more fun than anything in "True Lies."

  5. #69530
    Quote Quoting Morris Schæffer (view post)
    More exciting than most 90's actioners and certainly funnier than most Comedies.
    Face/Off is 100 times better at both than True Lies could ever dream of being. I would list all the other 90s actioners that are better than True Lies, but I would be here all day.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  6. #69531
    Since 1929 Morris Schæffer's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    Face/Off is 100 times better at both than True Lies could ever dream of being. I would list all the other 90s actioners that are better than True Lies, but I would be here all day.
    Face/Off is great, but it's Woo being Woo, replete with the expected pigeons. I guess Cameron showed me some new things, like that Harrier jumpjet sequence. Which you call ludicrous, but I'd call inspired. With that thing being able to hover in mid-air, nor did it seem out there that his daughter would be able to cling to it and the baddie being able to jump on it. But there have been some great 90's action films, so I guess what I meant to say was that True Lies belongs on that list, not that it's necessarily a top 3 or 1.
    [+] closer to next rating / [-] closer to previous rating

    • Dark (S3) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Fall (Mann, 2022) ✦✦✦½ [-]
    • Ms. Marvel (S1) ✦½ [+]
    • Dark (S2) ✦✦✦✦
    • Moon Knight (S1) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Get Carter (Hodges, 1971) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Prey (Trachtenberg, 2022) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Black Bird (S1) ✦✦✦✦
    • Better Call Saul (S6) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Halo (S1) ✦✦✦ [-]
    • Slow Horses (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • H4Z4RD (Govaerts, 2022/BE) ✦✦½ [-]
    • Gangs of London (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • We Own This City (S1) ✦✦✦½ [+]
    • Thor: Love and Thunder (Waititi, 2022) ✦✦ [+]


  7. #69532
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    I just rewatched and man it's a depressing movie. There's something ugly and sorta mean-spirited about the whole thing.

    The villains are all generic Islamic terrorists, which is unimaginative and boring even considering the time period. There are Rambo sequels with more cultural nuance than this. Then there's 40 minutes of screen time dedicated to the cartoonishly dumb infidelity subplot. I guess they were going for a screwball comedy vibe but in contemporary terms it's just fucking grim. Like, the entire middle of the movie is devoted to embarrassing Jamie Lee Curtis.

    Of the 4 major set pieces, only the harrier jets on the causeway really stood out. The rest plays like Cameron imitating Bay and doing it badly. Bay can pace a movie. This one has a solid hour with no action whatsoever, in a movie that runs 2 hours and 20 minutes.

    If I were gonna pick an espionage-style-light-comedy, I'd go with "Sneakers" (1992). For suburban-spy-with-clueless-spouse, I'd go with "Mr and Mrs Smith" (2005). Good double bill and waaaaaay more fun than "True Lies."

  8. #69533
    Best 90s Action Films:

    Heat* - 91
    Leon* - 89
    Speed - 80
    The Matrix - 80
    Crimson Tide* - 78
    Point Break - 76
    The Mission - 72
    Face/Off - 72
    Breakdown - 72
    The Long Kiss Goodnight - 72
    Terminator 2 - 71
    Waterworld - 70
    Total Recall - 69
    Backdraft* - 68
    Strange Days - 67
    Enemy of the State - 67
    Cliffhanger - 66

    (* possibly maybe not action films by the strict definition of the term but screw the strict definition of the term)

    For comparison, the best of the 2000s:

    Battle Royale - 92
    Die Bad - 82
    Death Proof* - 82
    So Close - 77
    Election 2 - 73
    The Bourne Supremacy - 72
    King Kong - 71
    Planet Terror - 71
    Dawn of the Dead - 70
    Kiss Kiss Bang Bang - 70
    Quantum of Solace - 70
    Hellboy 2 - 70
    Exiled - 69
    Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - 69
    The Chaser - 69
    The Bourne Identity - 69
    Terminator 3 - 69
    Miami Vice - 68
    Collateral* - 68
    Casino Royale - 68
    Election - 67
    Spy Game - 67
    Live Free or Die Hard - 67

    And of the 2010s:

    Sicario - 75
    Logan - 74
    Attack the Block - 73
    13 Assassins - 72
    The Raid 2 - 72
    War for the Planet of the Apes - 72
    Mission Impossible: Fallout
    The Nice Guys - 71
    Looper - 71
    Godzilla - 71
    Rise of the Planet of the Apes - 70
    The Raid: Redemption - 69
    Inception - 69
    Guardians of the Galaxy - 69
    The Yellow Sea - 68
    Drug War - 68
    The Avengers - 68
    Skyfall - 68
    Gravity - 67
    John Wick - 67

    Basically, Hollywood has lost its knack for big-budget action by throwing all of their energy into boring shared universe minutiae.
    Last edited by transmogrifier; 07-06-2020 at 11:44 AM.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  9. #69534
    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    I just rewatched and man it's a depressing movie. There's something ugly and sorta mean-spirited about the whole thing.

    The villains are all generic Islamic terrorists, which is unimaginative and boring even considering the time period. There are Rambo sequels with more cultural nuance than this. Then there's 40 minutes of screen time dedicated to the cartoonishly dumb infidelity subplot. I guess they were going for a screwball comedy vibe but in contemporary terms it's just fucking grim. Like, the entire middle of the movie is devoted to embarrassing Jamie Lee Curtis.

    Of the 4 major set pieces, only the harrier jets on the causeway really stood out. The rest plays like Cameron imitating Bay and doing it badly. Bay can pace a movie. This one has a solid hour with no action whatsoever, in a movie that runs 2 hours and 20 minutes.

    If I were gonna pick an espionage-style-light-comedy, I'd go with "Sneakers" (1992). For suburban-spy-with-clueless-spouse, I'd go with "Mr and Mrs Smith" (2005). Good double bill and waaaaaay more fun than "True Lies."
    Mr and Mrs Smith is way better than True Lies. The latter is weirdly misogynistic in places, and as you say, really damn boring in others. I actually don't mind Tom Arnold in general, but his character here is a complete laugh free zone, and I will argue that a character pissing their pants is never, ever funny. And Cameron thinks this is so funny, he has it happen twice. Oh, the wit.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  10. #69535
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    If I were gonna pick an espionage-style-light-comedy, I'd go with "Sneakers".
    10/10. I love that movie.

  11. #69536
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    Best of 90s action:

    - Hard Boiled
    - Police Story 3: Supercop
    - Heat
    - La Femme Nikita
    - Heroic Trio
    - Wing Chun
    - Once Upon a Time in China
    - Speed
    - Iron Monkey
    - The Rock
    - Under Siege
    - Bullet in the Head
    - Mission Impossible
    - Fist of Legend
    - Ronin
    - Point Break
    - Full Contact
    - Blade

    Edited to amend special considerations:

    - The Matrix
    - Terminator 2: Judgement Day

    Each one of these has spectacular action sequences that absolutely land but I'm more ambivalent about the rest of the films. "The Matrix" doesn't quite have an ending and was made retroactively worse by its sequels. The middle of "Judgement Day" is boring as shit. Both movies are far too in love with their themes.
    Last edited by Irish; 07-06-2020 at 12:11 PM.

  12. #69537
    I really need to see more non-American action movies from the 90s.
    Last 10 Movies Seen
    (90+ = canonical, 80-89 = brilliant, 70-79 = strongly recommended, 60-69 = good, 50-59 = mixed, 40-49 = below average with some good points, 30-39 = poor, 20-29 = bad, 10-19 = terrible, 0-9 = soul-crushingly inept in every way)

    Run
    (2020) 64
    The Whistlers
    (2019
    ) 55
    Pawn (2020) 62
    Matilda (1996) 37
    The Town that Dreaded Sundown
    (1976) 61
    Moby Dick (2011) 50

    Soul
    (2020) 64

    Heroic Duo
    (2003) 55
    A Moment of Romance (1990) 61
    As Tears Go By (1988) 65

    Stuff at Letterboxd
    Listening Habits at LastFM

  13. #69538
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    I stand by that TERMINATOR 2 is the best action movie of all time but I love the "smaller" scale version of Arnold vs everyone.

    https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/li...s-best/detail/

    "Have you ever killed anyone?"

    "Yeh but they were all bad"

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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  14. #69539
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    I really need to see more non-American action movies from the 90s.
    NAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh

    Side note, I'm convincing my wife to go on a Kung-Fu-a-thon with me so I can get to the Best 90s action movie of all time list.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  15. #69540
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting transmogrifier (view post)
    Best 90s Action Films:

    Heat* - 91
    Leon* - 89
    Speed - 80
    The Matrix - 80
    Crimson Tide* - 78
    Point Break - 76
    The Mission - 72
    Face/Off - 72
    Breakdown - 72
    The Long Kiss Goodnight - 72
    Terminator 2 - 71
    Waterworld - 70
    Total Recall - 69
    Backdraft* - 68
    Strange Days - 67
    Enemy of the State - 67
    Cliffhanger - 66
    There's a couple of films on here I wish I remembered to put on my list. Waterworld for example is always thrashed as bad, but it's really not. And it's quite fitting in the 90s decade.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  16. #69541
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Irish (view post)
    I just rewatched and man it's a depressing movie. There's something ugly and sorta mean-spirited about the whole thing.

    The villains are all generic Islamic terrorists, which is unimaginative and boring even considering the time period. There are Rambo sequels with more cultural nuance than this. Then there's 40 minutes of screen time dedicated to the cartoonishly dumb infidelity subplot. I guess they were going for a screwball comedy vibe but in contemporary terms it's just fucking grim. Like, the entire middle of the movie is devoted to embarrassing Jamie Lee Curtis.

    Of the 4 major set pieces, only the harrier jets on the causeway really stood out. The rest plays like Cameron imitating Bay and doing it badly. Bay can pace a movie. This one has a solid hour with no action whatsoever, in a movie that runs 2 hours and 20 minutes.

    If I were gonna pick an espionage-style-light-comedy, I'd go with "Sneakers" (1992). For suburban-spy-with-clueless-spouse, I'd go with "Mr and Mrs Smith" (2005). Good double bill and waaaaaay more fun than "True Lies."
    I cannot stand for this True Lies hate.

    The stuff with Bill Paxton is awesomely hilarious and I dont mind the action lull during this. It builds a good relationship with Arnold and the weight of his spy abilities.

    The harrier jet scene is excellent-

    "Hey these missiles won't set off those nukes will they?"

    "Negative, that's a negative Flag01... *winces at Tom*



    More Side note. That harrier jet scene got me obsessed with fighter jets during that time and I tried to watch every movie I could with fighter jets. Spoiler, there are not that many good movies with fighter jets. Top Gun is a huge letdown.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  17. #69542
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    Quote Quoting Dukefrukem (view post)
    I cannot stand for this True Lies hate.

    The stuff with Bill Paxton is awesomely hilarious and I dont mind the action lull during this. It builds a good relationship with Arnold and the weight of his spy abilities.

    The harrier jet scene is excellent-

    "Hey these missiles won't set off those nukes will they?"

    "Negative, that's a negative Flag01... *winces at Tom*

    More Side note. That harrier jet scene got me obsessed with fighter jets during that time and I tried to watch every movie I could with fighter jets. Spoiler, there are not that many good movies with fighter jets. Top Gun is a huge letdown.
    I liked your Cameron ranking quite a bit and especially enjoyed the low, low placement of "Titanic" (cough) but ... "True Lies" is a terrible movie.

    Part of my issue with the humor is that it's so off-key with the action. The humor is light and silly and the action is deadly and grim. Like, the whole "Yeah but there were bad people" line landed with a thud for me because (1) we know he's killed people because we've seen him do it and (2) most of the people we've seen him kill have died fairly gruesomely and (3) right after Arnold delivers that line, he snaps an old man's neck "Commando"-style. It's like ... not funny.

    Everything around the Bill Paxton character is terrible. If they wanted to do that level of farce, they needed a different cast (and a different director). In short: real comedians who have a sense of timing.

    I kept imagining what this movie would have been like if they had cast Dan Ackroyd, Phil Hartman, or Danny DeVito as Schwarzenegger's sidekick instead of Tom Arnold. But then I realized none of those actors would ever want to do it because there's no actual part to play here. Just a bunch of one-liners.

    The Harrier jets I'll give ya but I also had the overwhelming sense that I thought those sequences were cool and exciting because the jets themselves were cool and exciting, not because Cameron did anything interesting with them.
    Last edited by Irish; 07-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.

  18. #69543
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    Also, just to squeeze this in:

    The original theatrical cut of "Aliens" is Cameron's best film by a wide margin and "Terminator" is way better than "Judgement Day."

    "Titanic" is a technical marvel but the story sucks. "Avatar" is the same way.

    In short: Once he divorced Gale Anne Hurd, Cameron's scripts became shoddier and his movies sloppier because he over-relied on f/x to make up for his shortcomings as a storyteller.

  19. #69544
    The Pan megladon8's Avatar
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    I agree with every word you said, Irish.

    You won one (1) internet.

  20. #69545
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    T2 >T1

  21. #69546
    Replacing Luck Since 1984 Dukefrukem's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    T2 >T1
    For years I let people try and convince me T1 was better.
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    Quote Quoting D_Davis (view post)
    Uwe Boll movies > all Marvel U movies
    Quote Quoting TGM (view post)
    I work in grocery. I have not gotten sick. My fellow employees have not gotten sick. If the virus were even remotely as contagious as its being presented as, why haven’t entire store staffs who come into contact with hundreds of people per day, thousands per week, all falling ill in mass nationwide?

  22. #69547
    Quote Quoting Skitch (view post)
    T2 >T1
    Arnold as emotionless killing machine > Rote subplot where he becomes a father-figure to a troubled teen
    Just because...
    The Fabelmans (Steven Spielberg, 2022) mild
    Petite maman (Céline Sciamma, 2021) mild
    The Banshees of Inisherin (Martin McDonagh, 2022) mild

    The last book I read was...
    The Complete Short Stories by Mark Twain


    The (New) World

  23. #69548
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    I swear to God if I heard that kid say "there's no fate but what we make" one more time I will literally scream.

  24. #69549
    Producer Yxklyx's Avatar
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    So I sat down to watch The Magnificent Seven (1960) which I hadn't watched in a very very long time. This script is one of the laziest bits of writing ever - copying Seven Samurai in nearly every scene. Even bits of the original story are summarized by some crappy line just so they could check the story boxes. The movie is just pure crap. I could only stand it for 20 minutes and put in the Kurosawa film.

  25. #69550
    collecting tapes Skitch's Avatar
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    Quote Quoting baby doll (view post)
    Arnold as emotionless killing machine > subplot where he becomes a father-figure to a troubled teen
    I enjoy both. T2 is just so damn big in scope.

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