28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Dead & Messed Up]

(0. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm)
1. Batman Begins
2. Batman Returns
3. The Dark Knight
4. Batman
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman & Robin

Returns proves more intriguing every time I rewatch it.

[Watashi]

It's pretty annoying when people tell me what I think.

Not when what you think is just plain bonkers.

[Sven]

Not when what you think is just plain bonkers.

*yaaaawn*

No. No, it still is.

[Watashi]

Please defend the "Bat Credit Card".

[Sven]

Please defend the "Bat Credit Card".

I assume you're still talking to me: where does it say that I think B&R is a good movie?

[number8]

Please defend the "Bat Credit Card".

It says it's valid "Forever."

It defends itself.

[baby doll]

Negative. I don't even put the two in the same ballpark, or league, or sport.

Sure, and a giant douche is way better than a turd sandwich (at least it's sanitary). I'm just saying that neither one is anything worth celebrating. It's been too long since I've seen Batman and Robin to say whether it's better or worse than The Dark Knight (if nothing else, at least the former doesn't take itself so bloody seriously), but it's not like either one represents the pinnacle of cinema as a popular art form. And while I would never want to defend Batman and Robin per se, I don't recall it being so much worse than the three preceding Batman films as to deserve the drubbing it got from the press (where as The Dark Knight, which is only minimally accomplished as storytelling and not at all stylistically, was heralded by most mainstream reviewers as the zenith of world cinema in 2008, which to me illustrates the extent to which most reviewers live only to validate industry hype--hence, all the internet fanboy rage directed at Armond White for not liking certain costly investments).

[D_Davis]

My mind has never been blown more so than it was after watching this:

[youtube]svOlz2ei4Yk[/youtube]

[Skitch]

Sure, and a giant douche is way better than a turd sandwich (at least it's sanitary). I'm just saying that neither one is anything worth celebrating. It's been too long since I've seen Batman and Robin to say whether it's better or worse than The Dark Knight (if nothing else, at least the former doesn't take itself so bloody seriously), but it's not like either one represents the pinnacle of cinema as a popular art form. And while I would never want to defend Batman and Robin per se, I don't recall it being so much worse than the three preceding Batman films as to deserve the drubbing it got from the press (where as The Dark Knight, which is only minimally accomplished as storytelling and not at all stylistically, was heralded by most mainstream reviewers as the zenith of world cinema in 2008, which to me illustrates the extent to which most reviewers live only to validate industry hype--hence, all the internet fanboy rage directed at Armond White for not liking certain costly investments).

I understand what you're saying, I just plain don't agree. I'm not heralding the Dark Knight as a monument to cinema, but saying its on the same plane as Batman and Robin is just insane. Batman and Robin is mystery science theater horrible filmmaking, by any standard. Dislike TDK all you want, but its not that bad.

[DavidSeven]

Do people forget that the precedent for Batman & Robin's infamous one-liners was set in Burton's films? All Schumacher did was ratchet up what sucked about those movies to another degree.

Catwoman: Somebody say fish? I haven't been fed all day!
Batman: Eat floor.
[throws Catwoman down]
Batman: High fiber.

:|

[Grouchy]

Jack Nicholson's one-liners were great, though. "Never rub another man's rhubarb!"

1. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
2. The Dark Knight
3. Batman Begins
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman
6. Batman: The Movie
7. Batman Forever
8. Batman & Robin

[DavidSeven]

Michael Keaton's reading of "You wanna get nuts? Come on! Let's get nuts!" is still the best thing to result from those movies.

[MacGuffin]

1. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm

If I actually sat down and watched this all the way through, it'd probably be my favorite. I have to agree with baby doll regarding the Batman movies. My favorite would be a toss-up between Batman Forever and The Dark Knight; the former for its comic-sinister sets and general goofiness and the latter for Heath Ledger's frighteningly methodic performance. That said, they're really all not that special. Without animation, I think it's hard to portray Batman's world at the risk of seeming too silly or too self-important.

[number8]

I didn't include Mask of the Phantasm because it'll be a long list with all the animated movies included. I suppose it's the only one to get a theatrical release, but Batman: The Movie didn't, no?

[Derek]

Michael Keaton's reading of "You wanna get nuts? Come on! Let's get nuts!" is still the best thing to result from those movies.

And Seinfeld's subsequent cribbing of it led to one of George Costanza's finest moments, so double win!

Without animation, I think it's hard to portray Batman's world at the risk of seeming too silly or too self-important.

What I saw of Batman: The Animated Series back in the 90s seemed way too self-important to me back then, but I've never been able to get into comics or animated shows based on them, so grain of salt and what not. I had a similar problem with Begins, but I thought Nolan struck a much better balance with The Dark Knight.

[Watashi]

You need to re-watch Batman: TAS, Derek. You're not THAT old.

They are hardly self-important.

[Sven]

They are hardly self-important.

Very po-faced, though.

[Watashi]

Very po-faced, though.

It has serious episodes yeah, but Timm and Co. manage to balance both the fun tone of the early Batman with the more modern mythos of what we know of Batman today. Most of the self-important episodes (like I Am The Night) are pretty bad.

[MacGuffin]

I had a similar problem with Begins, but I thought Nolan struck a much better balance with The Dark Knight.

I agree with you here. I think he began to craft some well-rounded characters in The Dark Knight, which helped liven things up a bit (to his defense, he's crafted some pretty neat characters throughout his career), but it still wasn't enough for me to totally even out all the self-importance. That seems to be the case for everything I've seen by him. With The Dark Knight, Nolan asked us to take a man running around in a bat-suit in a very realistic world (Gotham City seeming to be the only connection to a comic book or comic book-style atmosphere) seriously, and it came off as fan-fiction and as Armond might say, artistic fraud.

[Watashi]

Here is a (unfinished) list I made at RT some time ago.

[Sven]

Pretty sure Armond wouldn't use the word "fraudery."

[MacGuffin]

Pretty sure Armond wouldn't use the word "fraudery."

Really? I think I've heard him use it several times before. I thought that was one of his words.

[Dillard]

Happy Together is possibly Wong's best film that I've seen, or at least gives In the Mood For Love and Chungking Express a run for their money. Wong juggles a variety of different aesthetic styles successfully to convey the surging emotions of Fai. As in other films, Wong is a master at matching image to soundtrack, and his use of repetition fills scenes with feelings gathered earlier in the film. I was thinking about half-way through when the main story thread is slowing down that there was no place the film could go. Yet the second half of the film turned out to be even stronger than the first, and needed those experiences, sounds, and images to add a punch to Fai's relationship with Chang and his return to Hong Kong. Full marks for Wong.

[Sven]

Really? I think I've heard him use it several times before. I thought that was one of his words.

Well, it's just not much of an actual word, see. I know Armond likes to embellish, exaggerate, and sometimes uses words curiously, but I'm pretty sure he keeps himself within the bounds of using words that actually exist.

[Sven]

I don't really care if it exists or not as a word. I think it serves its purpose well enough since I'm pretty sure you knew exactly what I meant when I used it.

I also would've known what you meant if you had used the word "fraud," which benefits not only from being an actual word, but also takes less time and energy to type as well as circumvents the chance that someone will give you a ribbing for making up a completely unnecessary word, saving more time, patience, and good grace in the process.