28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[transmogrifier]

His direction of non-combat action scenes, like the Mack Truck chase in The Dark Knight and the van chase in Inception, is exceptional .

The shot of the Mack truck flipping looked way cooler in the trailer - in the movie, it was deadened with the lack of grace in the editing around it. And was it during the Mack truck sequence that we had the god awful comic relief reaction shots? The film just blurs together for me into a mush of heavy themes, turgid action, and misbalanced narrative.

I don't remember anything about the van chase except the eternity it took to hit the water. The only truly visionary sequence was the hallway fight, and that was like 2 minutes at most.

He's NOT a good action director. Yet. He could get better the more he practices.

[transmogrifier]

Batman seemed to be kind of slow and clunky, and despite his ability to disappear and re-appear behind the guys, I found myself thinking "a handful of trained guys with guns can't hit him once?"

I have come to despise any movie that resorts to scenes where the good guy dodges a hail of bullets from the bad buys, especially if it features them running behind metal bars or machines and we see the sparks of the bullets hitting them and not the hero.

If you are forced to include a scene in your screenplay where the hero escapes a hail of gunfire by running and crouching, you have failed. Simple as that.

[megladon8]

Burton's Batman is truly one of the most poorly edited films of all time. It also has - as others have stated - horrid action direction, and some effects work (especially with miniatures) so bad that I don't really think they're even "dated"...just bad.

Batman Returns improved on it in just about every way, with Burton doing what he does best - stylish gothic soap opera. I love it.

I honestly couldn't choose between the two Schumacher films which one was "better". I guess I'd probably watch Batman & Robin again before I'd watch Batman Forever, because at least its entirely one-liner based script provides some entertainment value.


But really, animated Batman is where it's at.

[transmogrifier]

Burton's Batman is raggedy and has poor action sequences, but it has a pulse and genuinely loopy, psychotic edge to it. Plus Michael Keaton is the best Batman by a country mile.

Batman Returns still has pretty poor action, but it is even loopier and grander and more atmospheric and is just gorgeous.

[megladon8]

Burton's Batman is raggedy and has poor action sequences, but it has a pulse and genuinely loopy, psychotic edge to it. Plus Michael Keaton is the best Batman by a country mile.

Batman Returns still has pretty poor action, but it is even loopier and grander and more atmospheric and is just gorgeous.

The Prince music in Batman is still just...mind-boggling to me. There's "inspired", and then there's "what the hell were they thinking", and I think it safely sits in the latter.

I do agree about Michael Keaton being the best live action Batman (Kevin Conroy > Keaton), and I also agree that Batman Returns is better than the first film in pretty much every way possible.

[Chac Mool]

Michelle Pfeiffer's performance in "Batman Returns" is still one of my favorite cult turns -- and that movie is downright creepy at times.

[dreamdead]

Alright D_Davis, explain how Tsui Hark uses women in The Blade. I love the way he shoots the fight sequences and the story is obviously archetypal, but I flinch at the way Ling dives headfirst into danger and causes Ding On the loss of his arm, in addition to the carefree way she wants he and Iron Head to do battle for her honor and heart.

Is this part of the original One-Armed Swordsman, general Chinese kung-fu narratives, or what, because I feel a bit sexist for blindly accepting that moment--after King Hu's more compassionate treatment of women in Come Drink With Me, it's the one major false note(s) in what is otherwise a monumental display of choreography, visual space, and editing.

[D_Davis]

It's not one of his feminist films.

The Blade is all about the men, which is why it's homoerotic overtones are often the first place people look when discussing it. It's also a nod back to the original - you might say that Chang Cheh had a problem with women. They were often at the root of his male protagonist's problems (something often used as proof of Chang's own closeted homosexuality).

Tsui was simply updating the style of Chang's original, and was not concerned with updating the politics or gender roles. He did this in other films such as Peking Opera Blues.

So while some have made the claim that Tsui Hark is one of the world's leading feminist filmmakers (especially in terms of genre cinema), I can't make that argument with The Blade.

It really is all about the brotherhood of the jiang hu.

In my original review, I say:

Like The One-Armed Swordsman, The Blade is a multi-layered study of martial arts, manhood, and brotherhood. The term “homoerotic” is often thrown about in discussions because of how it fetishizes the male body and the psychosexual symbolism of the sword. I think this is a lazy categorization of the themes on display because it is often done at the expense of the jiang hu: the world of the insider, the milieu of the martial artists, and everything important to their existence. It is easy to write off the bare-chested, heroic bloodshed of martial heroes as displays of homoeroticism because we are outsiders, we are not part of their jiang hu, and so we do not understand their intense feelings of brotherhood and camaraderie; it is easy to misinterpret intense feelings of brotherhood for sexual attraction. I am not saying that the homoeroticism isn't there, I just wish it was wasn't among the first “serious” topics of discussion critics and scholars often turn to.

The two “brothers” in The Blade are Ding On and To Tao, two young men who work at a sword factory where the best swords in the land are made. The two are more than friends, they are like brothers, and share the same qualities as siblings, even the rivalry. They both see themselves as protectors of one girl, their master's daughter, and as would-be lovers for another, an attractive prostitute. They also see each other has “martial heroes,” and act accordingly when a monk is brutally murdered by a local gang of thugs. When their master retires, he passes control of the sword factory onto Ding On, much to the chagrin of To Tao and the other brothers. This causes a rift in Ding On's and To Tao's brotherhood, and is one catalyst for a series of life changing events, including a severed sword-arm and the nearly complete destruction of the sword factory.

It's all about an attack on manhood.

[D_Davis]

The Blade is actually quite unique in Tsui's filmography in that it doesn't have a strong, central, positive female lead. He rarely made films that focused so much on men. This is why I often compare it more to Don't Play With Fire,; While that film did have a female lead, she was actually a majorly fucked up chick who manipulated some dudes into doing some messed up things. The two films have a lot in common; they are both kind of nihilistic, dark, very serious, and lack one of Tsui's trademark touches - his strong female roles.

[megladon8]

Yeah, the main female character in the original The One-Armed Swordsman was...less than honorable.

[D_Davis]

Yeah, the main female character in the original The One-Armed Swordsman was...less than honorable.

At best, Chang Cheh makes his women characters females in distress, while they are more often prostitutes and conniving manipulators.

This was what was unique about Chang Cheh. The wuxia pian was seen, largely, as a female dominated genre. If the leads weren't actually women, they were men who looked very pretty. There was more Yin than Yang in the mix, as is often the case in the genre (even if the women characters had to dress as men to blend in. Remember, they were blending into a male dominated society, even if the genre was not). When Chang Cheh came on the scene, he and super-producer Mona Fong worked to make the genre more masculine, and thus the kung fu pian - films focusing on open handed combat - was born.

[MadMan]

All this talk about Batman reminded me that, even though I liked Burton's first Batman movie and Nolan's two Batman films, that he's really beyond boring as a character.

IFC showed Blood Simple tonight, and I was reminded why I think so highly of the film. Its suspense combined with nihnistic film noir, and the ending is darkly comedic on multiple levels. Anyone who's seen this movie (and Miller's Crossing, although I have yet to view that one) shouldn't have been so surprised that the Coens did No Country for Old Men. Oh and I'm probably the only person who actually thinks Blood Simple is better than NCFOM.

[elixir]

I also think Blood Simple is better than No Country...I think a good amount of Coen Bros movies are.

[Rowland]

I think most fans of the Coens would agree with that sentiment, though I only recently watched Blood Simple for the first time, and maybe it has something to do with seeing most of the films they made later into their evolution as filmmakers first, but I found it to be a middle-tier effort, which is still damn good for the Coens, but it struck me at times as gimmicky and glib in the manner of first-time filmmakers itching to strut their stuff. As a clever, hyperstylized yarn it's deeply pleasurable to take in, but it never feels emotionally engaged in itself or justified in its existential trappings.

[Dukefrukem]

All this talk about Batman reminded me that, even though I liked Burton's first Batman movie and Nolan's two Batman films, that he's really beyond boring as a character. .

[Adam]

...though I only recently watched Blood Simple for the first time, and maybe it has something to do with seeing most of the films they made later into their evolution as filmmakers first, but I found it to be a middle-tier effort, which is still damn good for the Coens, but it struck me at times as gimmicky and glib in the manner of first-time filmmakers itching to strut their stuff. As a clever, hyperstylized yarn it's deeply pleasurable to take in, but it never feels emotionally engaged in itself or justified in its existential trappings.

I had the same thing with Blood Simple - Saw it for the first time about a year ago and felt it was kinda lifeless (although still very entertaining and oozing with atmosphere and all that)

Animal Kingdom (Michôd, 2010) ***½

This is nice to see. Probably the most tense movie-watching experience I had last year. Seriously left me shaking at certain points

[Grouchy]

I somewhat agree that the hand-to-hand combat left something to be desired (although more so in Batman Begins), but I consider the car chase, the abduction of Lau or the fall from the building to be great moments of action filmmaking. I would put them as an example that Nolan can create a great action scene.

Whereas Burton clearly can't.

[Sven]

Did I miss an explanation for that white-text-black-background joke? I don't get it.

[Derek]

Did I miss an explanation for that white-text-black-background joke? I don't get it.

"Batman" was changed to "Madman". It's supposed to be when Madman says something especially Madmanesque. Duke did it wrong there, which adds to the confusion. Also, Duke puts a "*" after his rating for Inception simply because it's the highest rating he's given and the "*" refers to nothing. Personally, that's as vexing as anything Madman's said.

[MacGuffin]

Also, Duke puts a "*" after his rating for Inception simply because it's the highest rating he's given and the "*" refers to nothing.

How is this any different than a red ****? If Duke hasn't seen nearly as many movies as you have, shouldn't we assume the * represents a red **** for you?

[

Show Spoiler

lolz :frustrated:

]

[Ezee E]

We're all a little madman sometimes.

[Derek]

How is this any different than a red ****? If Duke hasn't seen nearly as many movies as you have, shouldn't we assume the * represents a red **** for you?

[

Show Spoiler

lolz :frustrated:

]

He uses a numerical rating system.

I don't put ****100^infinity.

[D_Davis]

So is ** > ****?

[transmogrifier]

Yay, ratings discussion!!

100 point scale is still the best.

[Derek]

So is ** > ****?

A is **? Are you insane Davis!? The red is just a simple way to differentiate them from the plain old ordinary **** films. Red = unfuckwithable masterpiece.