28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[DFA1979]

That might be worse than Amazon buying up MGM.

[DFA1979]

So I decided to watch The Avengers (1998) last night on Tubi. It wasn't as bad as I expected. Nope, it was worse than I could have imagined. This movie takes a good solid cast and makes them do a bunch of stupid things that would give anyone with a functioning brain a headache. The following occurs:

Eddie Izzard is a henchman that receives zero lines even though he is one of the most gifted comedians in the world. Sean Connery at one point is dressed up in a bear costume because well, I guess the screenwriters though it was a good idea. That scene with people in giant furry bear suits actually happened. I watched the movie sober so I know it did, unfortunately.

There is a double of Uma Thurman because this movie has zero ideas. At one point the double attacks her dressed also in a bear suit. By that part I just assumed I was viewing a dark comedy. Ralph Fiennes and Thurman get attacked by drone bees that is one of the most awful examples of 90s CGI I have ever seen.

None of the fights or car chases are good. They bored the hell out of me. This movie is sadly not even the worst film I have seen from 1998, which is surprising and weird. I guess I have seen so many good or great 1998 movies that the flip side of it is that I have also viewed a good number of awful ones, too.

[DFA1979]

One final note is that The Avengers was directed by the same guy who gave us the much better films Christmas Vacation and Tall Tale. I saw both of them in theaters. Make of that what you will, I guess.

[DFA1979]

Current Top 10 for 1998:

1. The Big Lebowski
2. The Truman Show
3. Rushmore
4. Pleasantville
5. Saving Private Ryan
6. Perfect Blue
7. Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas
8. He Got Game
9. Bulworth
10. Ring/Ringu

Bottom 10:

1. Stepmom
2. Psycho
3. Deep Rising
4. Patch Adams
5. Godzilla
6. Armageddon
7. Lost In Space
8. The Avengers
9. Mafia!
10. Deep Impact

[Yxklyx]

1998 top ten (it was a really good year!)

Run Lola Run (Tom Tykwer) 10
Velvet Goldmine (Todd Haynes) 10
Fucking Åmål (Lukas Moodysson) 9
The Celebration (Thomas Vinterberg) 9
Happiness (Todd Solondz) 9
Pi (Darren Aronofsky) 9
Lovers of the Arctic Circle (Julio Medem) 9
42 Up (TV) (Michael Apted) 9
The Big Lebowski (Joel Coen & Ethan Coen) 9
Buffalo '66 (Vincent Gallo) 8

- not a single match anywhere, oh wait -

[Skitch]

I love Pi.

[DFA1979]

I've also seen Pi. It's really good. Velvet Goldmine, Run Lola Run and Happiness are all ones I need to view.

[quido8_5]

Wow, 1998 certainly was a good year!

1) Rushmore
2) The Big Lebowski
3) Fucking Amal
4) The Celebration
5) Happiness*
6) The Truman Show
7) The Last Days of Disco
8) Fallen Angels
9) Little Dieter Needs to Fly
10) Saving Private Ryan

* I remember seeing this for the first time in 2002 and it just disassembling what I thought film could/should/should be able to depict. Solondz did something special with this one that I don't think he could ever top. Oh goodness, PSH.

[quido8_5]

Bottom 10:

5. Godzilla

I believe you must be mistaken.

[Skitch]

I hated Happiness.

[Philip J. Fry]

Shout out to The Prince of Egypt, Dark City and The Thin Red Line. 1998 was indeed awesome.

[Yxklyx]

I need to re-watch Fallen Angels - and maybe check out Rushmore again. Who has the latter on streaming?

My two favorite Wong Kar-Wai are Chungking Express and Days of Being Wild.

[Peng]

Oh yeah, pretty good year.

1. After Life
2. The Truman Show
3. Show Me Love (Fucking Amal)
4. The Celebration
5. The Thin Red Line
6. Saving Private Ryan
7. Out of Sight
8. Dark City
9. Christmas in August
10. Eternity and a Day

[megladon8]

Deep Rising is easily in my top 5 of 1998. DFA1979 you so crazy.

[baby doll]

1998:
Alone. Life Wastes Andy Hardy (Martin Arnold)
The Apple (Samira Makhmalbaf)
The Big Lebowski (Ethan and Joel Coen)
Eternity and a Day (Theo Angelopoulos)
Flowers of Shanghai (Hou Hsiao-hsien)
The Hole (Tsai Ming-liang)
Histoire(s) du cinéma (Jean-Luc Godard)
New Rose Hotel (Abel Ferrara)
Rushmore (Wes Anderson)
The Thin Red Line (Terrence Malick)

[quido8_5]

I hated Happiness.

There's a lot to hate. It's one of the most disturbing films I've ever seen, which cuts both ways. The feelings of disgust are palpable and any film that can elicit that emotion so strongly, while still making something watchable and even funny, is something special.

[Peng]

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)

[first time Extended Edition]

Have always found this, though still great, my least favorite of the trilogy, and both reading the book and watching the extended edition help clarify things up. Same as in the book, the splitting of core characters poses some structural problems, without yet the sprawl (that some find too much) to counter and give it weight like in Return of the King. This might be a highly My Problem thing, as indeed the Helm's Deep sequence remains a masterpiece of staging big-scale war on film, but I may have, sacrilegiously and against good sense, slightly preferred the next film's Battle of Pelennor Fields over it, as that one's "sprawl" has more emotional layer to support the fighting to be even more involving. To be fair, that one has no imagery as stirring as Gandalf here leading Eomer's army down to the rescue.

Also, restructuring the book makes sense to have this one be manageable film-wise, but I think removing both tail ends of the book's two halves hinder the overall impact a bit. I understand how cleaving it to down to story and thematic focuses appeals and makes this one many's favorite. But it feels lumpy, and even a tad strained in trying to have all the separate parts dovetail into their own catharsis at the same time by the end (like Sam's speech, as tremendously as Sean Astin delivers it). Shortening the Mordor trekking part, especially, has that half be almost too thin if not for Andy Serkis' Gollum, still a most fantastic marriage of rich on-the-page characterization, filmic innovation, and just plain great acting. I also feel the Men part here improves on the book, which starts to veer more towards mythic and larger-than-life language, by investing more human dimensions to it, like tracking two kids torn from family by war, or a father grieving for his fallen son. 9/10

[Stay Puft]

1998:
1. After Life (Hirokazu Kore-eda)
2. Flowers of Shanghai (Hou Hsiao-hsien)
3. The Thin Red Line (Terrence Malick)
4. Khrustalyov, My Car! (Aleksei German)
5. The Hole (Tsai Ming-liang)
6. The Emperor and the Assassin (Chen Kaige)
7. Knock Off (Tsui Hark)
8. Who Am I? (Benny Chan & Jackie Chan)
9. Secret Defense (Jacques Rivette)
10. Show Me Love (Lukas Moodysson)

[Skitch]

Who Am I? has one of the greatest fights ever.

[Stay Puft]

Yeah it's not really one of the "classic" Jackie Chan films overall but the rooftop sequence is one of the best of his career. I've watched it alone countless times, studied the behind-the-scenes footage, etc. The choreography is brilliant and there are so many various filmmaking tricks on display that it provides a real masterclass in action filmmaking, as much as anything in Police Story (albeit on a smaller scale). It blew my mind when I discovered they had a prop leg for the kickboxer in one shot; those kind of simple solutions to on-set problems are amazing haha.

[StuSmallz]

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)

[first time Extended Edition]

Have always found this, though still great, my least favorite of the trilogy, and both reading the book and watching the extended edition help clarify things up. Same as in the book, the splitting of core characters poses some structural problems, without yet the sprawl (that some find too much) to counter and give it weight like in Return of the King. This might be a highly My Problem thing, as indeed the Helm's Deep sequence remains a masterpiece of staging big-scale war on film, but I may have, sacrilegiously and against good sense, slightly preferred the next film's Battle of Pelennor Fields over it, as that one's "sprawl" has more emotional layer to support the fighting to be even more involving. To be fair, that one has no imagery as stirring as Gandalf here leading Eomer's army down to the rescue.

Also, restructuring the book makes sense to have this one be manageable film-wise, but I think removing both tail ends of the book's two halves hinder the overall impact a bit. I understand how cleaving it to down to story and thematic focuses appeals and makes this one many's favorite. But it feels lumpy, and even a tad strained in trying to have all the separate parts dovetail into their own catharsis at the same time by the end (like Sam's speech, as tremendously as Sean Astin delivers it). Shortening the Mordor trekking part, especially, has that half be almost too thin if not for Andy Serkis' Gollum, still a most fantastic marriage of rich on-the-page characterization, filmic innovation, and just plain great acting. I also feel the Men part here improves on the book, which starts to veer more towards mythic and larger-than-life language, by investing more human dimensions to it, like tracking two kids torn from family by war, or a father grieving for his fallen son. 9/10

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Two Towers, Too Furious, since, as the middle chapter of the trilogy, it could hit the ground running, without having to worry so much early on about establishing the world of Middle Earth as best it could for the Tolkien virgins amongst casual theatergoers (like Fellowship had to), or take so much time towards the ends to wrap everything up in a big, triumphant ending like Return, which makes it feel like the shortest, most streamlined Rings as a result. Its darker overall tone definitely gives me those echoes of Empire Strikes Back (which is always a good thing), and I like it slightly more than FotR, and actually about as much as RotK for that matter. Plus, Helm's Deep is my favorite battle scene of the entire trilogy:



In fact, I think I'll re-post my old review of it now just for fun...

[StuSmallz]

​A new power is rising.



[

Show Spoiler

Lord Of The Rings:
The Two Towers can hardly be called a "sequel" in the traditional Hollywood sense of the term, as it's obviously the middle part of the same story that Fellowship began, but however you label it, I feel that TTT is one of the best examples of IT around... whatever "it" may be. Ahem. Anyway, part of the film's success is due to its status as a middle chapter, leaving it free to explore its part of the saga's story without worrying about the heavy weight of world-introduction that weighed down its predecessor at times, or the occasionally redundant post-victory wrapup of Return Of The King. Granted, Towers does drag ever so slightly during its midsection, but considering its three hour length, necessary in order for Peter Jackson to adapt Tolkien's rich, epic mythology (with enough still left over to create an Extended Edition), I can easily overlook that in light of all the great fantasy entertainment we get in return, and even viewed on a ten inch tablet screen, TTT is still one of the most epic things I've ever had the pleasure of watching.


In Towers, as the now-fractured fellowship journeys ever closer to the dark land of Mordor, the battle for Middle Earth officially becomes an all-out WAR, with an even larger scale and action setpieces to match, introducing us to new lands as they are inevitably sucked into The War Of The Ring. However, PJ refuses to allow the scope of the film to swallow up its personal element, or resort to relying on stock fantasy roles, as all the new characters here are fully fleshed-out individuals with their own unique problems and desires, and, as the new characters come into the story, Jackson doesn't forget to continue the arcs for the old players, in a natural, compelling manner. The devil's in the details, and all the fantasy nonsense in the world wouldn't be worth anything if we didn't care about the characters caught in the middle, but we do, and although there's way too many of them to write about in detail, the multitude of smaller character moments included here ultimately keeps us engaged and invested in the larger struggle at hand.

But, as far as the epic fantasy aspects of TTT go, the movie certainly doesn't skimp on that either, expanding on the world & mythology of Middle Earth brilliantly, hinting at a tragic, deeper history for a certain former Hobbit, bringing an undiscovered army of walking, talking TREES into the fray, and resurrecting a previously thought-to-be deceased mentor from the dead in an unexpected twist. It's certainly a ton to unpack, but Jackson & company do so superbly, and tone-wise, Towers keeps things fresh by taking on a surprisingly violent war movie tint, as the armies of men and their allies fight to beat back the forces of Sauron that are devastating the land, climaxing in a stormy, chaotic, absolutely grueling battle at the fortress of Helm's Deep.

The Battle Of Helm's Deep is certainly a marathon, but never feels pointless or repetitive, and is extremely well-structured, as the overall progress of the clash is signified by easily identifiable turning points, which never get delayed amongst the chaos, and in all the epic battles in cinematic history, it's one of the biggest and certainly one of the best of them as well, only outdone (possibly) by one in the next installment of Rings.

In all of this, Towers is definitely a darker film than its predecessor, often quite literally so, with many scenes set at night, as cinematographer Andrew Lesnie providing some of the bluest, most striking nighttime footage I've witnessed since Terminator 2, which serve as a great contrast to the sweeping, daytime landscape shots, which make perfect use of the beautiful New Zealand scenery as Middle Earth, as Howard Shore's soaring, triumphant themes boom at us. Along with these literal rays of light, the thematic glimmers of hope in TTT are what help keep our heads up amongst all the crushing darkness, and give us that special rush of magic that only grand fantasy can provide. Installment, sequel, whatever you want to call this, the bottom line is, the battle for Middle-Earth begins right here; join, or die.

]

Final Score: 9

[Peng]

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Two Towers, Too Furious, since, as the middle chapter of the trilogy, it could hit the ground running, without having to worry so much early on about establishing the world of Middle Earth as best it could for the Tolkien virgins amongst casual theatergoers (like Fellowship had to), or take so much time towards the ends to wrap everything up in a big, triumphant ending like Return, which makes it feel like the shortest, most streamlined Rings as a result. Its darker overall tone definitely gives me those echoes of Empire Strikes Back (which is always a good thing), and I like it slightly more than FotR, and actually about as much as RotK for that matter.

Interesting that you cited ROTK as your favorite (if I read that correctly), since I feel like it's either FOTR or TTT from what I've seen. Like among critics I follow, such as Scott Tobias, I've seen the latter being their choices a lot. It's ROTK that is left out, mostly because that one seems (at least from my viewpoint) like a lot of people's second favorite, including mine, lol.

[megladon8]

I love all three LOTR films dearly, but in my books Fellowship is in a completely different league than TTT or ROTK.

The ending battle in the forest is more exciting and emotionally charged than any of the more epic battles of the next two films.

And the deaths of Gandalf and Boromir are the strongest emotional beats of the entire trilogy. Both in the first film.

It also stands on its own, while the other two feel incomplete by themselves.

Fellowship is the perfect and definitive fantasy film of its ilk.

[DFA1979]

Deep Rising is easily in my top 5 of 1998. DFA1979 you so crazy.

It stinks!

I believe you must be mistaken.

Nah it sucks.