28 Film Discussion Threads Later

[Wryan]

Saw Wolf Children. What a wonder. Would not have been able to guess that the movie would handle the oddball and tricky material with such sensitivity and grace. The last forty minutes or so felt like a continuous, breathless moment. A loving exploration of both parenting and coming of age when you feel alone and confused and unsure of who you are. It's contemplative, delicate and passionately felt. It's also often very cute. I loved that it never forced the kids but rather let them come to their own conclusions.

Saw the dubbed version on YouTube. It was fine, but I'd like to watch the subbed sometime soon.

[Dukefrukem]

They set up Vader's goal and establish the sides from the very first scene of the film - then it expands and evolves from there.

The opening scene with Vadar is actually exactly the same as the opening of Ronan.

Btw we have a Guardians thread guys.

[D_Davis]

The new Planet Of the Apes movies are my favorite new genre films. Just incredible. Watched Dawn tonight, and I loved it even more than Rise. Bets special fx I've ever seen. Can't wait for the next one.

[Dukefrukem]

Marathon Man is so 70s.

[dreamdead]

Dunham's Tiny Furniture has kernels of great ideas and understated comedy, but there's so much unnecessary or persistent double-downs on characters fronting about their relative success that it's hard not to desire seeing them fail. Dunham's able to craft interesting characters, but the two best episodes in this film are both sequences concerning Aura and her mother, and the dialogue here moves from the pop culture savviness to actual character-revealing, rather than -deflecting, incidents. It's those moments that allow the film to succeed. Otherwise, it's a proto-Girls without some of the distance removed.

Some of the film wouldn't be so bad if Dunham weren't playing the lead, which collapses character/actor a little too much in ways that hurt Dunham rather than the character.

[Mal]

I saw a copy of The Reader at my library last week and immediately Hugh Jackman singing "I haven't seen The Reader" from the Oscars years back sprung into my head. I decided to rent the film for that fact. It's a fairly disgusting film and Daldry has no good sense to paint Kate Winslet's character as what she truly is. Being illiterate doesn't wash away being a statutory rapist and nazi, yuck.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I agree that the villain is weak. But it made me think of Star Wars and Darth Vader, and I'm not sure why Darth Vader works and Ronan doesn't. Even if you don't take The Empire Strikes Back or any of his backstory into account, he is a much stronger villain in A New Hope alone, and I don't know why. This requires further study.

Vader comes off as efficient and ruthless. Ronan comes off as petulant. Vader's arrival comes with a delicious Williams evil chord as he emerges silently from mist, evaluating the dead. Vader's first action is holding a rebel two feet off the ground and choking him to death. Ronan's first scene (unless I'm misremembering) involves him shouting at Thanos. Vader has a mystical choking power. Ronan wants to shortcut his way to some sort of transcendent power. Vader uses a laser fencing sword, which points up his samurai restraint and control. Ronan's a warlord with a hammer - a weapon that ties to his inexact, bludgeoning fury. Vader's shrouded in mystery, offering elliptical hints of history during his fight with Kenobi. Ronan's can't stop his self-righteous yammering.

This isn't meant to bag on Ronan, since I'm pretty sure the point was to create a guy who's basically Darth Vader in his wildest dreams and a bit of a bore and a stooge in reality (which sets him up nicely against the Guardians, who often resist their potential heroism). Vader is a fucking opponent. Ronan is a jerk.

[Dukefrukem]

Vader comes off as efficient and ruthless. Ronan comes off as petulant. Vader's arrival comes with a delicious Williams evil chord as he emerges silently from mist, evaluating the dead. Vader's first action is holding a rebel two feet off the ground and choking him to death. Ronan's first scene (unless I'm misremembering) involves him shouting at Thanos. Vader has a mystical choking power. Ronan wants to shortcut his way to some sort of transcendent power. Vader uses a laser fencing sword, which points up his samurai restraint and control. Ronan's a warlord with a hammer - a weapon that ties to his inexact, bludgeoning fury. Vader's shrouded in mystery, offering elliptical hints of history during his fight with Kenobi. Ronan's can't stop his self-righteous yammering.

This isn't meant to bag on Ronan, since I'm pretty sure the point was to create a guy who's basically Darth Vader in his wildest dreams and a bit of a bore and a stooge in reality (which sets him up nicely against the Guardians, who often resist their potential heroism). Vader is a fucking opponent. Ronan is a jerk.

You're misremembering. Ronan's first scene is smashing someone face in with a giant mallet as he is getting his suit put on.

Vadar's first scene and Ronan's first scene are equivalent and I'm wondering why people are forgetting this.

[Irish]

You're misremembering. Ronan's first scene is smashing someone face in with a giant mallet as he is getting his suit put on.

Vadar's first scene and Ronan's first scene are equivalent and I'm wondering why people are forgetting this.

They're not equivalent at all. Vader's goals are made clear by dialogue and escalating action. The rebels made off with some information. Vader wants it back. You see Vader threaten and kill several people in the first 20 minutes of the movie, and he interacts directly with one of the heroes of Star Wars (Leia) early on.

Ronan's first scene is an exposition dump between a bunch of characters you don't know. The guy he kills is a walk-on nobody, and the stuff they discuss makes no sense unless you're already familiar with the Marvel universe. It's all about peace treaties, the Kree, and distant governments. The audience isn't given any kind of point of reference for all this. Ronan then spends most of the rest of the film glowering at people while standing around dark thrones rooms. It isn't until half way through the film that he leaves his little base, and then only briefly.

There's a lot of fun in Guardians but I don't think it would be possible to write the character-driven dialogue in a more ham handed way. Star Wars has awkward dialogue, too, and some terrible line readings, but at least Lucas was skilled enough to tie characters to action when introducing them to the audience.

Lucas told you everything you need to know about the people in Star Wars (while constantly hinting at a much larger universe). Marvel movies often force you to do Wikipedia searches if you really want to understand what's going on.

[Dukefrukem]

They're not equivalent at all. Vader's goals are made clear by dialogue and escalating action. The rebels made off with some information. Vader wants it back. You see Vader threaten and kill several people in the first 20 minutes of the movie, and he interacts directly with one of the heroes of Star Wars (Leia) early on.

Ronan's first scene is an exposition dump between a bunch of characters you don't know. The guy he kills is a walk-on nobody, and the stuff they discuss makes no sense unless you're already familiar with the Marvel universe. It's all about peace treaties, the Kree, and distant governments. The audience isn't given any kind of point of reference for all this. Ronan then spends most of the rest of the film glowering at people while standing around dark thrones rooms. It isn't until half way through the film that he leaves his little base, and then only briefly.

There's a lot of fun in Guardians but I don't think it would be possible to write the character-driven dialogue in a more ham handed way. Star Wars has awkward dialogue, too, and some terrible line readings, but at least Lucas was skilled enough to tie characters to action when introducing them to the audience.

Lucas told you everything you need to know about the people in Star Wars (while constantly hinting at a much larger universe). Marvel movies often force you to do Wikipedia searches if you really want to understand what's going on.

The rebel that Vader kills is a walk-on nobody. In fact, he kills a nobody and then screams that he wants the rest of the crew alive "I WANT THEM ALIVE". Not really that threatening to our main characters.

The stuff Ronan preaches about is as generic as Vadar wanting some ambiguous plans. Ronan discusses punishing those who do not obey certain laws of the universe and depicts his anger about his father's death, which I find much more ominous then Space Station plans. Ronan actually feels like he will be killing our main characters. Vadar never comes across this lethal.

And you can't really credit Lucas to this bigger universe. No one knew anything about the clones wars or the Kessel Run, or whatever one-liners the trilogy says that are never mentioned again until 30 years later.

And if you are going to credit Lucas for the bigger universe you can certainly do the same thing for Gunn/Guardians. Example: the Celestial head that is mentioned in GotG referring to the Eternals/Deviants was a fantastic reference (and I believe will [

Show Spoiler

explain who is Quill's father

]

[Irish]

The rebel that Vader kills is a walk-on nobody. In fact, he kills a nobody and then screams that he wants the rest of the crew alive "I WANT THEM ALIVE". Not really that threatening to our main characters.

He threatens Leia multiple times in the first twenty minutes, tortures her after that, and then plays a hand in blowing up her home planet while she watches. And that's just the first act.

The stuff Ronan preaches about is as generic as Vadar wanting some ambiguous plans. Ronan discusses punishing those who do not obey certain laws of the universe and depicts his anger about his father's death, which I find much more ominous then Space Station plans. Ronan actually feels like he will be killing our main characters.

Ronan feels like he barely knows the Guardians exist, and when he does, he doesn't care (eg Drax, etc).

And you can't really credit Lucas to this bigger universe. No one knew anything about the clones wars or the Kessel Run, or whatever one-liners the trilogy says that are never mentioned again until 30 years later.

One of Lucas' little narrative tricks is that he's constantly referencing past history and other places in dialogue. He doesn't need to put any of that stuff on screen to make it effective. It's enough to suggest it. The movie has two main locations and about a half dozen main characters, but it feels much bigger than that because of all the casual detail.

Example: the Celestial head that is mentioned in GotG referring to the Eternals/Deviants was a fantastic reference (and I believe will [

Show Spoiler

explain who is Quill's father

]

I've seen Guardians twice and I have no idea what the hell any of this means. That's my issue with the movie.

[Dukefrukem]

He threatens Leia multiple times in the first twenty minutes, tortures her after that, and then plays a hand in blowing up her home planet while she watches. And that's just the first act.

I thought we were talking about the first scene these villains were introduced? Not their presence throughout the films. My comments about Vader vs Ronan was about their respective introductions into both movies. Their goals and demeanor are both setup, and my argument is Ronan's is more sinister.

Ronan feels like he barely knows the Guardians exist, and when he does, he doesn't care (eg Drax, etc).

Why should he care? They haven't proven anything and he handles Drax with 1 arm, twice. Once he gets the infinity stone, then he REALLY doesn't care. [

Show Spoiler

It's not till the every end we find out Quill is half alien.

]

One of Lucas' little narrative tricks is that he's constantly referencing past history and other places in dialogue. He doesn't need to put any of that stuff on screen to make it effective. It's enough to suggest it. The movie has two main locations and about a half dozen main characters, but it feels much bigger than that because of all the casual detail.

Disagree. It feels bigger because of the cantina scene, not because of any dialog from Lucas.

I've seen Guardians twice and I have no idea what the hell any of this means. That's my issue with the movie.

My point is this is equivalent to referencing the "Clone Wars" once. At least you can look up the Eternals if you really want to. You couldn't look up shit with the Clone Wars. You don't need to know what the Eternals are unless you are [

Show Spoiler

trying to find out who Quill's father is. And even then I'm only speculating. It could just be a nod to that Marvel series.

]

[Irish]

I thought we were talking about the first scene these villains were introduced? Not their presence throughout the films. My comments about Vader vs Ronan was about their respective introductions into both movies. Their goals and demeanor are both setup, and my argument is Ronan's is more sinister.

That was a combo comment, partially reacting to your "Vader never comes across as lethal."

Anyway, Ronan didn't seem threatening to me. He came across like a poser, a schoolyard bully, more bark than bite. *shrug*

Why should he care?

Because he's the villain of the movie. That's a problem if you ascribe to the idea that a hero is only as good as their villain. Arguably, Guardians has weak villains.

Disagree. It feels bigger because of the cantina scene, not because of any dialog from Lucas.

That's definitely part of it, but also outside the scope of what I was referencing.

My point is this is equivalent to referencing the "Clone Wars" once. At least you can look up the Eternals if you really want to. You couldn't look up shit with the Clone Wars. You don't need to know what the Eternals are unless you are [

Show Spoiler

trying to find out who Quill's father is. And even then I'm only speculating. It could just be a nod to that Marvel series.

]

Yeah. That's because the Clone Wars reference is meant to spark the audience's imagination, not drop Wikipedia into their lap, stop the narrative completely, and spoon feed them exposition (which is what Guardians does repeatedly).

Quill's father might be a neat reference for fans, but it's also information that has zero effect on Guardian's story. Compare that to (just as an example) Star Wars' repeated references to Jabba the Hutt.

[Irish]

Ugh, Duke. Now I've got that damned Mos Eisley cantina music stuck in my head. Thanks a lot! :lol:

[Dukefrukem]

Whelp that's what you get. :lol:

[Scar]

That was a combo comment, partially reacting to your "Vader never comes across as lethal."

Anyway, Ronan didn't seem threatening to me. He came across like a poser, a schoolyard bully, more bark than bite. *shrug*

Even after he takes out Drax without breaking a sweat? Hell, he barely broke stride.

[Irish]

Even after he takes out Drax without breaking a sweat? Hell, he barely broke stride.

No, because Disney/Marvel movies are written to such a rigid formula that Ronan felt exactly as powerful as he needed to be for that moment (it was the second act climax).

[Russ]

A Brighter Summer Day (Edward Yang, 1991) PRO

A tremendous achievement. An epic that is filled with big and little moments of heartbreak, despair and uncertainty. Yang's mastery of long, medium, and static shots helps convey a sense of time and place rarely captured so effectively in films of this scope. As poetic as it is profound.


On a thread-relevant note, I seriously doubt that either of the two badass characters, Honey or S'ir, would have been much of a match for Ronan.

[bac0n]

The Ronan the Accuser I've enjoyed in the comics always struck me as more a Judge Dredd type, dealing with any perceived threats to the Kree Empire with impunity and without remorse. Shit, he wound up part of the superhero group The Annihilators after the Thanos Imperative story arc. I kinda wish the movie woulda had that Ronan, instead of the, yes, petulant monologuer version of Ronan who tussled with the Fantastic Four and Avengers in the 60s. That's one of my few gripes with the movie; overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit.

[Qrazy]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2972482/

This is one very entertaining film. I think Match-cut will enjoy.

[Lucky]

Coincidentally enough, "What movie is the fictional band Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes from?" was a question at trivia night yesterday.

[transmogrifier]

Any film related resolutions for this year?

Mine is simple: no repeat viewings. I want to watch nothing but films I haven't seen before all year.

[MadMan]

I don't count repeat viewings anyway.

I was thinking going for 200 new viewings this year but I donno. Something always gets in the way.

[Irish]

Any film related resolutions for this year?

No more sequels or prequels. I'm burned out*

* but still interested in age of ultron

[Dukefrukem]

Any film related resolutions for this year?

Mine is simple: no repeat viewings. I want to watch nothing but films I haven't seen before all year.

Just chip away at the 1001 movies I need to see before I die.