Late Night TV Discussion Thread

**number8** · 10-02-2009, 04:28 AM

Umm, nevermind all that. Letterman just admitted affairs with female members of his staff on tonight's episode. What the fuck.

**Adam** · 10-02-2009, 09:16 AM

Just throwing this out there - I know Late Night with Letterman in the '80s might be the most important and legendary slice of television comedy ever, but in my lifetime, I haven't gotten anything out of Dave on CBS. He was always funnier than Leno, sure, but I mean they're basically the same show. Also, Letterman comes off like kind of a self-important asshole to me. That shouldn't matter and maybe to keep your own late night talk show for thirty years you pretty much have to be a self-important asshole but Dave seems like an especially big one. Everyone knows he's a bit prickly, but I'm betting he's an out-and-out jerk

Anyway, I don't care that he fucked his staffers. I do care that he's currently killing Conan in the ratings, because to me and a lot of other folks like me, Conan is my Letterman. Getting high and drifting off to Conan was my average weeknight in high school and now I feel like he's getting totally screwed. Alan Sepinwall & ESPN's Bill Simmons were discussing it today - the conspiracy theory that maybe NBC's plan all along was to just use this year as a stop-gap to cheaply get their primetime priorities in order. Then next year they'll dump Conan and put Jay back on the Tonight Show. I mean, I knew they treated Conan incredibly unfairly on this whole deal anyway, but if that other stuff is true, then NBC sucks

**Kurosawa Fan** · 10-02-2009, 11:15 AM

Quoting number8 (view post)

Umm, nevermind all that. Letterman just admitted affairs with female members of his staff on tonight's episode. What the fuck.

Did you see the entire thing? Someone was blackmailing him, and they set the guy up and he was arrested. I think Letterman was just beating the media to the story. He really made it a nonissue, so much so that his story was kind of boring.

Quoting Adam (view post)

Just throwing this out there - I know Late Night with Letterman in the '80s might be the most important and legendary slice of television comedy ever, but in my lifetime, I haven't gotten anything out of Dave on CBS. He was always funnier than Leno, sure, but I mean they're basically the same show. Also, Letterman comes off like kind of a self-important asshole to me. That shouldn't matter and maybe to keep your own late night talk show for thirty years you pretty much have to be a self-important asshole but Dave seems like an especially big one. Everyone knows he's a bit prickly, but I'm betting he's an out-and-out jerk

Anyway, I don't care that he fucked his staffers. I do care that he's currently killing Conan in the ratings, because to me and a lot of other folks like me, Conan is my Letterman. Getting high and drifting off to Conan was my average weeknight in high school and now I feel like he's getting totally screwed. Alan Sepinwall & ESPN's Bill Simmons were discussing it today - the conspiracy theory that maybe NBC's plan all along was to just use this year as a stop-gap to cheaply get their primetime priorities in order. Then next year they'll dump Conan and put Jay back on the Tonight Show. I mean, I knew they treated Conan incredibly unfairly on this whole deal anyway, but if that other stuff is true, then NBC sucks

Number one, Letterman is definitely a different Letterman than he was in the eighties. He's less hungry, knows his place in all this, and has basically just settled into a comfortable role rather than trying to carve out his place (which was already accomplished). That's to be expected. But even comfortable Dave is far, far better than Leno, and since June, has been far better than Conan. Second, I've heard and read that thrown around all my life, that Letterman is a self-important asshole, and that he seems like a prick even on air. I've never seen it. Unless he's dealing with someone who deserves his scorn (Paris Hilton, Spencer and Heidi, etc.), I think he's no more than a cordial, funny host whose sense of humor is far more cynical and sarcastic than his competition. I'm constantly amazed by what's apparently a very sensitive group of viewers who think he's just a big meanie-pants and won't watch his show because he isn't always happy-go-lucky with every guest.

As for this conspiracy theory, I'm not on board. Leno is probably a stop-gap for NBC's falling ratings, but this "Leno is poised to take back The Tonight Show" conversation is only taking place because Conan is tanking out of the gate. Make no mistake about it: Conan's ratings suck right now because his show sucks. Period. And I'm a fan of Conan. My high school years were very similar to yours, apparently. But since his move to The Tonight Show he's never found a comfortable groove. I've seen 20-25 episodes, and there have been few bright spots in there. I even flipped over to tonight's episode for part of Michael Moore and Seth McFarland. Conan seems bored. When Seth came out, Conan told a quick story about himself, and then had Seth talk in the voices of The Family Guy characters. Never talked to him about his new show, or asked him why he has a role on FlashForward (which I was curious about). Just did the standard droll interview.

As for NBC treating Conan incredibly unfairly, give me a break. Conan made his own bed. He demanded a deadline for taking over The Tonight Show, had it written into his contract otherwise NBC would have to pay a HUGE penalty, and he'd likely walk away to another network. He forced NBC's hand, and they found a way to give him what he wanted while still holding on to Leno. I don't see that as being "treated unfairly". It's a savvy business move. It's the entertainment business! It's a major television network! They're always going to do what they feel is in their best interest. If Conan came to The Tonight Show in June, killed the ratings, slayed the audiences every night, NBC wouldn't think twice about replacing him and Leno would have to settle for his little 10 pm show until he left or they took it away. Conan would be the host of The Tonight Show for as long as he wanted the gig. TV execs, slimey as they may be, only care about numbers and ad revenue. They don't have some secret loyalty to Leno. All they want is viewers and money.

And don't give me this "set up for failure" nonsense either. Conan had ample time to come up with inventive material between March and June. He failed. His skits have been dull and his banter with Andy has been forced. He had ample time to build a loyal audience and keep the ratings high before Leno's new show ever came on the air. He failed. Miserably in fact. His numbers have been falling slowly but steadily ever since his premiere, with no Leno stealing viewers before his show. This whole mess is on Conan's shoulders as much as it's on NBC's.

**Adam** · 10-02-2009, 01:21 PM

Well as far as Letterman goes, I don't hate the guy and maybe he's not mean, necessarily. But for instance I've read he doesn't stop by the late show green room to say hello to the guests beforehand and in fact the only time he has any contact with them at all is onstage. And it's stuff like that - where like a Jay Leno is by all accounts this overwhelmingly warm and accommodating guy, Letterman's just crotchety. And, yeah, whether or not Letterman observes social niceties really shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does bother me and I think it clearly comes through on the air. Either way, he's definitely got an ego. And he's very stubborn. Watch like his last interview with Bill O'Reilly (a man I have no love for) and tell me he's not being a self-important asshole with a silly axe to grind. Conan, meanwhile, is just this overgrown class clown and you get the sense all he wants to do is make people laugh. There's something very endearing about that

I do agree, though, that Conan's Tonight Show has been disappointing. From what I've seen, I think the taped bits have gone mostly okay, but his monologue is too long and he was never that compelling an interviewer to begin with. Conan's biggest mistake was toning down his show's more surreal nature because he was never gonna win over the senior circuit, anyway. But however he's been doing over the summer, you can't say NBC didn't screw him with the whole Leno to 10:00 thing. I'm not totally sold on the conspiracy theory angle, either, but just in handing that slot to Leno, NBC showed no faith in or loyalty to Conan whatsoever. Conan has been soooo good to NBC and he deserved the Tonight Show. I don't begrudge him for threatening to leave. Leno should've retired

All that aside, it strikes me that if Conan can just grind out a couple more years, there's gonna come a point where nielsen ratings are going to be obsolete. And once they find a way to properly monetize hulu and whatnot and keep track of who's watching stuff online, I think he'll be okay

**Dukefrukem** · 10-02-2009, 01:33 PM

Was flippin around in between King of the Hill episodes last night and i landed on Jay's crappy show. Chris Rock had his A game last night. He was great.

**Kurosawa Fan** · 10-02-2009, 02:43 PM

Quoting Adam (view post)

Well as far as Letterman goes, I don't hate the guy and maybe he's not mean, necessarily. But for instance I've read he doesn't stop by the late show green room to say hello to the guests beforehand and in fact the only time he has any contact with them at all is onstage. And it's stuff like that - where like a Jay Leno is by all accounts this overwhelmingly warm and accommodating guy, Letterman's just crotchety. And, yeah, whether or not Letterman observes social niceties really shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does bother me and I think it clearly comes through on the air. Either way, he's definitely got an ego. And he's very stubborn. Watch like his last interview with Bill O'Reilly (a man I have no love for) and tell me he's not being a self-important asshole with a silly axe to grind. Conan, meanwhile, is just this overgrown class clown and you get the sense all he wants to do is make people laugh. There's something very endearing about that

I do agree, though, that Conan's Tonight Show has been disappointing. From what I've seen, I think the taped bits have gone mostly okay, but his monologue is too long and he was never that compelling an interviewer to begin with. Conan's biggest mistake was toning down his show's more surreal nature because he was never gonna win over the senior circuit, anyway. But however he's been doing over the summer, you can't say NBC didn't screw him with the whole Leno to 10:00 thing. I'm not totally sold on the conspiracy theory angle, either, but just in handing that slot to Leno, NBC showed no faith in or loyalty to Conan whatsoever. Conan has been soooo good to NBC and he deserved the Tonight Show. I don't begrudge him for threatening to leave. Leno should've retired

All that aside, it strikes me that if Conan can just grind out a couple more years, there's gonna come a point where nielsen ratings are going to be obsolete. And once they find a way to properly monetize hulu and whatnot and keep track of who's watching stuff online, I think he'll be okay

Letterman may not talk to guests in the green room, but that's not rare. It's how he chooses to approach his guests. It keeps the witty banter on stage and on camera. Maybe the fact that Leno is so accommodating makes his show seem watered down. And as for being self-important, Bill O'Reilly knows exactly what he's in for when he agrees to come on the show. He's been on several times. Letterman has made no illusions to his distaste for what Bill-O does with his spotlight, and he'll call him out for his bullshit. I'd much rather that than see someone like Leno suck up to him for 8-9 minutes. No thanks. Letterman treats his guests how they deserve to be treated (it is his show, after all), and if they don't like it they don't have to appear on his show.

I still disagree that NBC screwed Conan. Again, they gave him ample opportunity to succeed before Leno came back on the air. NBC is a business, and The Tonight Show is a coveted asset. NBC did what all good businesses do, and that's protect their asset. A case could be made that Conan screwed NBC by demanding a timetable to take over The Tonight Show before Leno was ready to walk away. The show would have been his either way. He forced Jay out by saying he wanted The Tonight Show guarantee or he was going to start taking offers from other networks. NBC didn't want either of them to leave, so they created a situation where both could stay. Again, this is coming from someone who can't stand Jay Leno, and who admires what Conan did with Late Night. You are right to blame Conan for changing his approach to the show and toning things down. He tried to appeal to too many people, and in the process alienated some of his loyal fans. Also, it isn't as though NBC is threatening to replace him with Leno. The only people saying that are critics and bloggers. NBC has said no such thing.

I feel dirty defending a network and their execs like this, but I'm sick to death of Conan apologists pretending that he's just a fun-loving guy who's getting screwed over. Conan is a businessman first and foremost. He wouldn't be where he is if he wasn't. He made a play for the show he wanted, and now he's got it. If he can't make it successful, it's on him, not NBC. If the ratings are bad, NBC will replace him, Leno or no Leno.

**Ezee E** · 10-02-2009, 04:16 PM

Yeah, Conan's been playing it way too safe in his interviews as well. He had some great opportunities with Michael Moore and Seth last night, but would quickly change the subject if something controversial was approaching, such as Seth making fun of Magic Johnson's late night show.

I still like his standup bits, especially when interacting with the audience. I've read no news that he'll be cancelled anytime soon. This happens with all late night hosts. They take the longest to appeal to audiences, and set high ratings. I remember in the early 90's that Letterman had many talks of being cancelled because he couldn't contend with Leno, yet he still remains. Kimmel, same thing, and I believe he has worse ratings than Conan still.

The only ones that do get cancelled are the Magic Johnsons and Chevy Chase's that are so horrible that the ratings are less than 1.0.

**number8** · 10-02-2009, 04:20 PM

And here it is: http://voices.kansascity.com/node/6083

**number8** · 10-03-2009, 09:33 PM

I'm really enjoying this fight between Conan and Newark's mayor.

**Ezee E** · 10-03-2009, 09:41 PM

Quoting number8 (view post)

I'm really enjoying this fight between Conan and Newark's mayor.

I hope they do meet in Kansas.

**Acapelli** · 10-03-2009, 09:44 PM

Quoting number8 (view post)

I'm really enjoying this fight between Conan and Newark's mayor.

i love cory booker

**DavidSeven** · 10-03-2009, 10:14 PM

To be fair, Leno's show is actually screwing Conan's ratings in two ways:

1. Since the networks started airing new programming, Leno's ratings have been weak and providing a poor lead-in for the local news and Conan. In isolation, Leno's show is still probably profitable because it's made on the cheap, but it's having a larger than expected ripple effect on everything that comes on after.

2. Tivo is reporting that people are recording Leno's show and typically watching it after the scripted shows at 10PM are over. This means that Leno himself is now taking away viewers from his affiliate news programs and Conan.

Sources:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/tv/200...d-by-leno.html
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/09/leno-...gs-drops-.html

**Ezee E** · 10-03-2009, 11:08 PM

Leno's show was so cheap they couldn't even buy him a desk. He looks strange sitting in a chair in his interviews.

**Kurosawa Fan** · 10-03-2009, 11:22 PM

Quoting DavidSeven (view post)

To be fair, Leno's show is actually screwing Conan's ratings in two ways:

1. Since the networks started airing new programming, Leno's ratings have been weak and providing a poor lead-in for the local news and Conan. In isolation, Leno's show is still probably profitable because it's made on the cheap, but it's having a larger than expected ripple effect on everything that comes on after.

2. Tivo is reporting that people are recording Leno's show and typically watching it after the scripted shows at 10PM are over. This means that Leno himself is now taking away viewers from his affiliate news programs and Conan.

Sources:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/tv/200...d-by-leno.html
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/09/leno-...gs-drops-.html

I don't buy that second report, because the people recording Leno, if they liked Conan, could just as easily record The Tonight Show and watch it another time. So that's not a valid excuse for the loss of viewers for The Tonight Show. The first reason I think is a bigger hit to local news than it is to Conan, but again, if Conan took advantage of those months he had before Leno's show began, viewers wouldn't care if his lead-in was strong, they'd be tuning in for his show.

**number8** · 10-04-2009, 06:34 AM

Ah, SNL, sticking it to Obama.

**number8** · 10-04-2009, 07:01 AM

The only thing worse than Kenan's Deephouse Dish sketch is Kenan's french comedian sketch.

**Acapelli** · 10-04-2009, 07:07 AM

Quoting number8 (view post)

The only thing worse than Kenan's Deephouse Dish sketch is Kenan's french comedian sketch.

i used to love his french lessons as pierre escargot on all that. i was also ten or so, so take that with a grain of salt

**number8** · 10-04-2009, 07:12 AM

Those were actually witty.

**Spaceman Spiff** · 10-04-2009, 05:08 PM

I only caught 5 or so minutes of SNL last night. It was some skit with a fat black guy and that sometimes funny but often annoying Samberg dude, and it was just rank pathetic. I was embarrassed for the both of them.

**number8** · 10-04-2009, 05:54 PM

That's the Deephouse Dish sketch. It's one of the worst sketches SNL has done, possibly ever. And they made it a recurring.

**number8** · 10-04-2009, 05:55 PM

At least the Digital Short was good this week. Last week had two and they were both terrible.

**Mysterious Dude** · 10-04-2009, 09:16 PM

My favorite sketch of the night was the Norwegian actors doing an American cop show.

**Kurosawa Fan** · 10-05-2009, 10:25 AM

Quoting Antoine (view post)

My favorite sketch of the night was the Norwegian actors doing an American cop show.

Yep. And I liked last week more than this week. Ryan Reynolds deserved a better show than that.

**Spinal** · 10-06-2009, 04:23 AM

I'm tired of celebrity confessions and apologies for adultery. It's not my business. I don't care. If you're a moral crusader and have been exposed as a hypocrite, then that's newsworthy and ha ha on you. Otherwise, just work it out with your spouse and leave me out of it.

**number8** · 10-30-2009, 01:09 AM

I had no idea this happened! But back in January, Letterman brought in Bill Hicks' mother to apologize for cutting his stand-up portion in 93.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUbB_D-dYp8 (1 of 3)

That's awesome.

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