Oooo, let's discuss... Billy Wilder!

[origami_mustache]

I didn't find The Apartment to be as essential as everyone says it is...not to say I didn't like it, but storywise it's probably my least favorite from what I've seen.

[Boner M]

Wilder is one of those directors whose work I generally enjoy, but have never really given any serious thought to at all. In other words, I got nothing.

[Yxklyx]

Essentials
Sunset Blvd. (1950)
The Apartment (1960)
Some Like It Hot (1959)

Good
Ace in the Hole (1951)
Stalag 17 (1953)
The Seven Year Itch (1955)
Sabrina (1954)

Bottom tier (still worth recommending)
Witness for the Prosecution (1957)
One, Two, Three (1961)
Kiss Me, Stupid (1964)

I'd put Kiss Me, Stupid right below Ace in the Hole. Hmm, haven't see The Seven Year Itch though.

[Qrazy]

I'd put Kiss Me, Stupid right below Ace in the Hole. Hmm, haven't see The Seven Year Itch though.

Unfortunately Tom Ewell is no Jack Lemmon.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I'd put Kiss Me, Stupid right below Ace in the Hole. Hmm, haven't see The Seven Year Itch though.

Within each category, there is no real order. I don't really think Kiss me, is his worst fil, though I will agree with Qrazy (though, not about Itch... which I'd also agree has the same probems) that it suffers if only because the lead actor is not as charismatic or talented as he should be. Wilder when working with great actors did wonderful work, but he seemed either inept at drawing great ones out of minor actors, or had a strange sense of aesthetics. It would probably be my greatest critisism of his work. Most of his "worst" films, are brought down for the most part by performances or acting. Though, admittingly I should see more of his work to really claim this to be true.

[Sven]

Peter Sellers was originally supposed to be the lead in Kiss Me Stupid, but I think had a heart attack before filming began, so they had to go with Walston. Personally, I think it's a pretty wonderful picture, Walston's neuroses hysterical (though a bit theatric, I'm insanely curious to know what Sellers would've done with the role), Martin's self-parody spot-on (love his one-liners), and Kim Novak's sexiness through the roof. Maybe more so even than Monroe's in Some Like It Hot. It's definitely comparable, at any rate.

What I find wonderful about it, too, is its complicated morality, even in this day and age. The jealousy/swapping/adultery/whoring angle is so convoluted that the pat solution at the end is really anything but. The film opens up a lot of issues about fidelity and the rightness of objectification, shading everything grey.

[Sven]

Watched A Foreign Affair this morning, it being so good as to instantly rank up there with his finest comedies. And talk about double-edged comedy. This is about as acerbic as you can get, but it's played light and breezy, classic Wilder (trading one lover's gift for a mattress for another lover). Jean Arthur's never been sexier, and John Lund was quite charming, I'm surprised I haven't seen him in more. Of course, what can be said about Marlene has already been said. Tight, witty screenplay (the Paul Revere bit is fabulous), crisp photography (I love the recurring reflections throughout: Marlene in the Lorelei's window, Jean in the mirror of Marlene's apartment), refreshing blend of politics sexual and military.

[Benny Profane]

If The Apartment were released today, with the same dialogue, and same direction, but with different actors, and a modern look, would people still like it as much? In other words would Wilder's "trademark" snappy dialogue play to audiences today at all?

Because I couldn't help wondering about that while I was watching the movie, which I found nice and entertaining but nothing to grovel about.

[Yxklyx]

Peter Sellers was originally supposed to be the lead in Kiss Me Stupid, but I think had a heart attack before filming began, so they had to go with Walston. Personally, I think it's a pretty wonderful picture, Walston's neuroses hysterical (though a bit theatric, I'm insanely curious to know what Sellers would've done with the role), Martin's self-parody spot-on (love his one-liners), and Kim Novak's sexiness through the roof. Maybe more so even than Monroe's in Some Like It Hot. It's definitely comparable, at any rate.

What I find wonderful about it, too, is its complicated morality, even in this day and age. The jealousy/swapping/adultery/whoring angle is so convoluted that the pat solution at the end is really anything but. The film opens up a lot of issues about fidelity and the rightness of objectification, shading everything grey.

It feels like the movie was storyboarded for Sellers and Walston then filled in afterwards without any changes to the plan. What I mean is that there are at least two scenes in which it seems very obvious that they were meant to show off Sellers' talents. One is an early scene where he's facing the camera up close and talking to himself - the other is the mishap scene on the couch. In both scenes Sellers came to mind immediately. It would have been a better film with Sellers - Walston is the weakest link in the cast but he's still OK.

[Raiders]

If The Apartment were released today, with the same dialogue, and same direction, but with different actors, and a modern look, would people still like it as much? In other words would Wilder's "trademark" snappy dialogue play to audiences today at all?

Because I couldn't help wondering about that while I was watching the movie, which I found nice and entertaining but nothing to grovel about.

Is this a "people wouldn't like it without subtitles" thing? I really don't know how to answer it regardless. Removed from the lips of Lemmon and MacLaine it is difficult to say how well it would play, but I know I love the dialog and set-up regardless and I know as far as society goes, this film has been popular ever since it was a "new release" in 1960.

[Benny Profane]

Is this a "people wouldn't like it without subtitles" thing? I really don't know how to answer it regardless. Removed from the lips of Lemmon and MacLaine it is difficult to say how well it would play, but I know I love the dialog and set-up regardless and I know as far as society goes, this film has been popular ever since it was a "new release" in 1960.

Nah, more like a "is this film stuck in its own era" kinda thing? Released today, would it be nearly as popular?

[ledfloyd]

i'll have to read back through this thread. but i just wanted to say that on a good day, i might say billy wilder is my second favorite director.

[soitgoes...]

Nah, more like a "is this film stuck in its own era" kinda thing? Released today, would it be nearly as popular?

Well, aren't most films a product of their time? The issues dealt with in The Apartment might seem tame to today's standards, but at the time it was dealing with issues not seen often or at all in American cinema, with laughs too. I don't think this lessens it's greatness.

[Sven]

i'll have to read back through this thread. but i just wanted to say that on a good day, i might say billy wilder is my second favorite director.

I'm guessing Bergman as the first?

[Qrazy]

If The Apartment were released today, with the same dialogue, and same direction, but with different actors, and a modern look, would people still like it as much? In other words would Wilder's "trademark" snappy dialogue play to audiences today at all?

Because I couldn't help wondering about that while I was watching the movie, which I found nice and entertaining but nothing to grovel about.

So if it were the same movie but different or rather not the same at all then would it be received differently? Probably yes, which means nothing.

The actors and the look are defining elements of the film that if changed would result in a completely different film. It's like comparing Rear Window to Disturbia or The Lady Vanishes with Flightplan.

[MacGuffin]

I just watched Ace in the Hole, and it was wonderful. Even if it was unpleasant. I admire how on the surface it seems to be about how disgusting certain journalist publications can be, but is bold enough to take that to a whole new level and criticize our consumerism and the capitalism that ultimately strives off of it. Wilder sure knows how to craft some abominable characters.

Quick question: did Charles kiss the absolutely disgusting wife, or just pull her hair? If it's the former, huh? I don't get it. I mean I guess it would make sense to show how stupid he is (as if the movie didn't do this enough without the scene), but it does indeed make me loath him (and her... if it's possible) even more.

[monolith94]

Anyone else seen Irma La Douce? It has a couple of nice scenes, but it's not a good movie. Still, I don't really regret watching it.

[Sven]

Quick question: did Charles kiss the absolutely disgusting wife, or just pull her hair? If it's the former, huh? I don't get it. I mean I guess it would make sense to show how stupid he is (as if the movie didn't do this enough without the scene), but it does indeed make me loath him (and her... if it's possible) even more.

I assume that they have sex. Do I recall right in remembering you mention that you haven't watched a lot of classic American cinema? There's an entire language of coding adult situations into these classic pictures that you start to understand after a while. Why would he just pull her hair? Do you think that makes more sense than if it was a sexual thing? There's an electric attraction between them, and sharing the amoral values that they do, it's inevitable that they're gonna physically connect.

[Sven]

Anyone else seen Irma La Douce? It has a couple of nice scenes, but it's not a good movie. Still, I don't really regret watching it.

Actually, I'd like it, if you could, to describe for me exactly why you didn't like this movie? I always hear people talking about how bad they think it is, but I don't think I've ever heard anybody describe why they think so.

[MacGuffin]

I assume that they have sex. Do I recall right in remembering you mention that you haven't watched a lot of classic American cinema? There's an entire language of coding adult situations into these classic pictures that you start to understand after a while. Why would he just pull her hair? Do you think that makes more sense than if it was a sexual thing? There's an electric attraction between them, and sharing the amoral values that they do, it's inevitable that they're gonna physically connect.

Thanks, I figured as much. Wonderful movie!

[StanleyK]

Mauvaise Graine - 4
The Major and the Minor - 5.5
Five Graves to Cairo - 8.5
Double Indemnity - 8.5
The Lost Weekend - 7
The Emperor Waltz - 4
A Foreign Affair - 4
Sunset Blvd. - 10
Ace in the Hole - 8.5
Stalag 17 - 8.5
Sabrina - 5.5
The Seven Year Itch - 4
The Spirit of St. Louis - 7
Love in the Afternoon - 4
Witness for the Prosecution - 8.5
Some Like It Hot - 8.5
The Apartment - 8.5
One, Two, Three - 7
Irma la Douce - 2.5
Kiss Me, Stupid - 5.5
The Fortune Cookie - 8.5
The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes - 7
Avanti! - 5.5
The Front Page - 7
Fedora - 5.5
Buddy Buddy - 7



One of the best to do it for sure. He didn't lose consistency in the latter stages of his career either, which is rare and admirable.