Random Thoughts

[Irish]

But i'm curious how you expect the CEO of a user generated product to take the blame for this?

"User generated" doesn't mean neutral. Facebook's algorithm determines most of what you see there and everything you don't. If you spend your time on the platform engaging with far-right junk, you'll see more far-right junk. The algorithm only cares about driving engagement. (YouTube works the same way.)

It's also a walled garden, so you'll never see content that contradicts the narrative you're being fed. This matters more in parts of the world where people primarily access the Internet through their mobile and Facebook is more reliable than the open web.

It's sorta like: Imagine if every news source was Fox News. Literally.

[Dukefrukem]

I dunno guys. The algorithm isn't consuming the content and therefor concluding: "this is the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do". It's just band-aiding things together for the user. It takes a deep dive into the code to prevent this kind of thing from happening. It's the same issue with when Zuckerberg spoke at Congress about the applications that were taking user information. This was another oversight.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be repercussions and responsibility taken here. I'm just saying being on trial? Is a bit of a stretch.

[Skitch]

"User generated" doesn't mean neutral. Facebook's algorithm determines most of what you see there and everything you don't. If you spend your time on the platform engaging with far-right junk, you'll see more far-right junk. The algorithm only cares about driving engagement. (YouTube works the same way.)

It's also a walled garden, so you'll never see content that contradicts the narrative you're being fed. This matters more in parts of the world where people primarily access the Internet through their mobile and Facebook is more reliable than the open web.

It's sorta like: Imagine if every news source was Fox News. Literally.

This is true. I also kinda agree with Duke here too. The platform is so massive, do we think Zuckerberg is sitting in his office going over each ad purchase? Of course not. He could have a team of a 10,000 people doing that and they wouldnt be able to keep up. I imagine they form algorithms to hunt keywords and distill those for investigation. I'm not defending Facebook, but the shit is so overwhelmingly huge how do you moderate it to make anyone happy?

[baby doll]

This is true. I also kinda agree with Duke here too. The platform is so massive, do we think Zuckerberg is sitting in his office going over each ad purchase? Of course not. He could have a team of a 10,000 people doing that and they wouldnt be able to keep up. I imagine they form algorithms to hunt keywords and distill those for investigation. I'm not defending Facebook, but the shit is so overwhelmingly huge how do you moderate it to make anyone happy?

That's the easy part: Enforce anti-trust laws and break up the company.

[baby doll]

I dunno guys. The algorithm isn't consuming the content and therefor concluding: "this is the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do". It's just band-aiding things together for the user. It takes a deep dive into the code to prevent this kind of thing from happening. It's the same issue with when Zuckerberg spoke at Congress about the applications that were taking user information. This was another oversight.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be repercussions and responsibility taken here. I'm just saying being on trial? Is a bit of a stretch.

The algorithm is programmed by people to perform in a certain way in order to generate profits. What happened in Myanmar is not a glitch or an "oversight"; that's how Facebook is designed to function. Myanmar is why Facebook exists.

If Zuckerberg weren't white, he'd been in hiding from the ICC and living under an assumed name right now.

[Skitch]

That's the easy part: Enforce anti-trust laws and break up the company.

But arent anti-trust laws just about competition? FB has plenty of social media competition, it just happens to be the easiest one for older people to operate. Twitter has character limit, snapchat photos disappear or something (I dont have it), instagram is all pictures, tictoc is dancing kids or some shit I dont know...zack snyder is on some other social I wont have because I'll never give a nickel to any social media...for people like my parents and in-laws (who called me because they lost their Microsoft Start button and people I work with who asked me for reminder of where the space button was, FB is easy.) And these people are late 50s early 60s.

[Dukefrukem]

That's the easy part: Enforce anti-trust laws and break up the company.

What exactly is the basis for Anti-trust lawsuit here? Monopoly maybe? Because essentially anyone who buys a phone in that region has Facebook pre-installed on it. Market power?

These will never result in the company being broken up.

[baby doll]

I'm not versed in the intricacies of US anti-trust law, but it seems worth pointing out that Facebook owns both Instagram and WhatsApp, and they've attempted to buy SnapChat on multiple occasions.

[Irish]

It takes a deep dive into the code to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

It doesn't, really. They could ban extremist groups and political ads today. But they won't, because their model depends on driving engagement regardless of human cost.

It's the same issue with when Zuckerberg spoke at Congress about the applications that were taking user information. This was another oversight.

He was lying. Facebook does stuff like that all the time and they do it on purpose.

That's the easy part: Enforce anti-trust laws and break up the company.

They could very easily claim they don't have a monopoly on social media. Even if they did, it'd be difficult to show they're leveraging a current monopoly to give themselves an advantage in other areas.

I also think you'd need to prove individual harm, which is very difficult.

[Skitch]

I'm not versed in the intricacies of US anti-trust law, but it seems worth pointing out that Facebook owns both Instagram and WhatsApp, and they've attempted to buy SnapChat on multiple occasions.

But this country is owned by like 7 corporations. Dont mistake me bd, I'm not arguing against you, I'm just trying to understand your stance. I'm an anarchist, so we can burn this whole motherfucker to the ground for all I care.

[Dukefrukem]

He was lying. Facebook does stuff like that all the time and they do it on purpose.

That's your tinfoil hat talking.

[Irish]

That's your tinfoil hat talking.

No, that's over 2 decades in the tech industry talking. Facebook's litany of bullshit is fairly well documented and has been from their inception.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm not versed in the intricacies of US anti-trust law, but it seems worth pointing out that Facebook owns both Instagram and WhatsApp, and they've attempted to buy SnapChat on multiple occasions.

They are trying to grow at the rate WallStreet expects them to. So it's in their best interest to purchase these companies.

[Dukefrukem]

No, that's over 2 decades in the tech industry talking. Facebook's litany of bullshit is fairly well documented and has been from their inception.

I'm sure it's fairly well documented in documents you've never read.

[Ezee E]

I just get annoyed that if I do one google search, it triggers ads for the next 2-3 weeks.

[Skitch]

Stay on track guys. This gets us nowhere.

[megladon8]

I get really weirded out still by ads popping up about products I was talking about IRL.

[Skitch]

Yeah no shit. I spent weeks telling people that's bullshit until it started happening to me. Now I just make sure to thank google when it does my voice commands. I'll still be here after the robot revolution, you rude fuckers

[Irish]

I'm sure it's fairly well documented in documents you've never read.

Huh? I have no idea what this means.

I'm talking about their well know, public abuses of their users and the larger media industry. They've been a shit company from the get-go.

They can't simultaneously claim to be the smartest dudes in the Valley, habitually do they sleazy shit they've done, and claim innocence. C'mon man. Use your head.

[Dukefrukem]

Huh? I have no idea what this means.

I'm talking about their well know, public abuses of their users and the larger media industry. They've been a shit company from the get-go.

They can't simultaneously claim to be the smartest dudes in the Valley, habitually do they sleazy shit they've done, and claim innocence. C'mon man. Use your head.

I just read all three links you posted.

It's all nowhere near the security concerns he spoke about at Congress. I guess you're referring to Zuckerberg hacking into school computers when you say from the get go? If so... good for him sticking it to the man!

One of the links talks about Facebook altering "video viewership metrics"... so who the fuck cares?

One of them is a wikipedia list... thought you were better than this Irish.

One of them talks about privacy .. OK legitimate concerns here. Around the time frame Google introduced Google+ and when FourSquare introduced check in feature, Facebook immediately released a copycat feature AND EVERYONE FREAKS OUT. The timeline is quite hilarous in retrospect because no matter of all the "backlash" they faced that didn't seem to bother anyone has it continued to grow by the tune of 200 million users a year after 2008.

Edit: also my post was a poor attempt at humor I guess? Trump says "everyone knows" and it's "well documented" all the time, but never mentions specific details.

[Irish]

One of the links talks about Facebook altering "video viewership metrics"... so who the fuck cares?

This event decimated the media industry and directly cause a shit ton of people to lose their jobs. So ... they cared? And so did the people who read pubs that eventually shuttered because of FB's bullshit?

Edit: also my post was a poor attempt at humor I guess? Trump says "everyone knows" and it's "well documented" all the time, but never mentions specific details.

I was lazy because you can literally google "Facebook privacy controversy" and find a unique event going back every 6 months for 10 or 15 years.

If you wanna stan for Facebook and fellate Zuckerberg, jfc man, at least know what you're signing up for.

[Skitch]

Sigh...I try to steer things back to productive discussion but it always ends in "who cares" and blow job jokes. I give up. Have at it MC, I tried

[DFA1979]

I know Facebook sucks but since they're a monopoly and my friends are on there is there really anything I can do save for lobbying my Congress people who won't listen to me anyways to do anything? I'm not sure what the solution is here when the government is owned by corporations. Guess we'll have to just seize the means of production or something...

[Irish]

Sigh...I try to steer things back to productive discussion but it always ends in "who cares" and blow job jokes. I give up. Have at it MC, I tried

tbh I shouldn't have responded originally and regret doing so. Done now.

[DFA1979]

I chuckled at "blow job jokes."