Random Thoughts

[bac0n]

That situation you're talking about Bacon, is very real, but also very very far away from reality.

If by "very very far away from reality", you mean "a long time until this becomes a reality", then you're right. It probably won't be our generation that will see the results of this, maybe not even the next generation. But it's my kids (and their kids) that I worry about. What kind of world are we going to leave them? I would like one that doesn't involve indentured servitude, if possible.

On a less serious note, I remember back in the 90s, Jello Biafra was running for president, may have been 92 or 96, and one of his platforms was the idea of enforcing a maximum wage.

[Dukefrukem]

That's the exact reason it exists. Anyone should be able to work a minimum wage job (full time) and be able to survive.

That is not the case. Not even close. The entire system is screwed.

That's what supports of the minimum wage believe. But it's simply not true.

[number8]

The same non-skilled job everyday for the rest of your life? Sounds like motivation to me.

That's my point. The job itself already sucks. That's motivation enough to not end up that way. But for those who either don't mind it, or have limited options, or are victims of circumstance, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be able to make a living wage doing non-skilled labor. Low pay is terrible motivation because people in that situation are not more likely to say, "I make too little money, I'm gonna go to school so I can get a better job that pays more." For one thing, there are currently about 500,000 people with college degrees working minimum wage jobs in America, so that's about as useful as dog shit. And another thing, they can't because they're working 2-3 of those just to stay afloat. Maybe if minimum wage is a lot higher, then workers will have the luxury of time and money to seek better options.

[megladon8]

It's always those who are unaffected by the problem who love to sit back and claim there is no problem.

[MadMan]

I need to send a Bat signal out to eternity. From what I understand he went to ASU, slaved away and is still looking for a job to probably pay off his high student loan debt. Any country that has a growing divide of rich and poor sooner or later experiences serious problems. There is a reason both the Tea Party and Occupy Wall St movements emerged.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yeah, I don't see dangerously low wage rates as a motivator so much as a trap, one that forces people into damaging work schedules and purchasing models and flawed payment systems (e.g. McDonalds' debit check method, replete with needless fees, is a shocking example).

I don't think anyone's saying that dramatic minimum wage hikes will resolve every problem out there, but I think a minimum wage being a living wage is more than fair, especially if you're working full time somewhere.

Funnily, the one article I've found that suggests minimum wage hikes negatively impact job hiring was authored by a member of the Employment Policies Institute, which sounded legit until I googled it and learned the EPI is a conservative think tank owned by a PR firm and paid by the restaurant industry. America. Bootstraps.

[D_Davis]

It's always those who are unaffected by the problem who love to sit back and claim there is no problem.

Exactly. "I got mine, fuck you."

That's the attitude that drives the American Dream.

[D_Davis]

Minimum wage hikes are NOT the solution.

That will just cause more inflation, and more prices to rise.

Change needs to come from the top. There needs to be rent control. People should be able to live within a certain distance from where they work if they choose to. Things like traffic tickets or other violations with a fee as punishment should be a percentage of what the violator makes, not a flat fee (a speeding ticket hurts a poor person far more than a wealthy person). We need to stop predatory lending. We need to control how much health care and other insurances cost. Income tax needs to be high, sales tax low (sales tax is a regressive tax, income tax is a progressive tax). Property taxes on the main place of dwelling should be frozen at the time your mortgage is paid off to prevent the elderly from losing the homes that they own.

Basically, we need to enact a MAXIMUM WAGE not a minimum wage.

[Benny Profane]

Funnily, the one article I've found that suggests minimum wage hikes negatively impact job hiring was authored by a member of the Employment Policies Institute, which sounded legit until I googled it and learned the EPI is a conservative think tank owned by a PR firm and paid by the restaurant industry. America. Bootstraps.

The bipartisan CBO said the same thing, that it will cause higher unemployment, but lift a lot of people out of poverty at the same time. This was about Obama's proposed min wage of $10.25 (or whatever it was).

[Dukefrukem]

It's always those who are unaffected by the problem who love to sit back and claim there is no problem.

I love it when those presented with questions continue to dodge them and make off hand comments that aren't relevant to the discussion.

[megladon8]

I think Duke's account was hacked and he has been replaced by a GOP rep.

[number8]

There should be more companies like Valve.

In case this was vague, Valve as a company operates under a sort of socialist model where they have no upper management or an HR department. Salaries, bonuses, hirings, project assignments, are all determined by peer consensus rather than bosses (theoretically, anyway, I'm sure Gabe Newell's opinions carry significant weight, but on paper, every employee has equal say).

Similarly, I know there've been co-op factories and companies popping up all across the US lately, where the "unskilled workers" get to partially own the company and distribute profits, which is a trend I'd like to see more.

[Dukefrukem]

Low pay is terrible motivation because people in that situation are not more likely to say, "I make too little money, I'm gonna go to school so I can get a better job that pays more."

So the solution to this is raise their pay anyway? Even though that won't motivate them to go to school either?

For one thing, there are currently about 500,000 people with college degrees working minimum wage jobs in America, so that's about as useful as dog shit. And another thing, they can't because they're working 2-3 of those just to stay afloat. Maybe if minimum wage is a lot higher, then workers will have the luxury of time and money to seek better options.

Of those 500K jobs, what percentage of those people majored in communications, or liberal arts, or psychology or basket weaving? I mean, are we really that surprised they can't find work??

[Dukefrukem]

Minimum wage hikes are NOT the solution.

That will just cause more inflation, and more prices to rise.

At first I was like.. wow DD gets it...

Then I read:

Change needs to come from the top. There needs to be rent control. People should be able to live within a certain distance from where they work if they choose to.

Basically, we need to enact a MAXIMUM WAGE not a minimum wage.

LOL Wut??????

[Dukefrukem]

I think Duke's account was hacked and he has been replaced by a GOP rep.

I'm unregistered, moderate.

[megladon8]

I don't know if Americans were aware of what happened with Target here in Canada.

Target attempted to enter Canada and utterly failed, to the point where they are closing all the stores and leaving.

The CEO cut himself a severance check larger than the amount that was given to all the employees across re country, combined.

Shit like that needs to stop.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't know if Americans were aware of what happened with Target here in Canada.

Target attempted to enter Canada and utterly failed, to the point where they are closing all the stores and leaving.

The CEO cut himself a severance check larger than the amount that was given to all the employees across re country, combined.

Shit like that needs to stop.

That was just part of his resignation and mostly in stock. He failed with the Canadian rollout and took major heat with the security breech. So he's basically not going to be finding a job anytime soon. BUt it's common practice for CEOs to get a big payout when they step down. Timing is just a coincidence.

[megladon8]

I don't agree with maximum wage, but minimum wage increase is an absolute no-brainer MUST.

Minimum wage should reflect the cost of bare essential living. It does not. End of story.

[megladon8]

That was just part of his resignation and mostly in stock. He failed with the Canadian rollout and took major heat with the security breech. So he's basically not going to be finding a job anytime soon. BUt it's common practice for CEOs to get a big payout when they step down. Timing is just a coincidence.

That changes nothing. People receiving enormous payouts for utterly failing is not OK.

If I fail at my job, I get fired and get nothing. A swift kick in the ass out the door.

If the CEO of my company fails, he'll get a huge payout and will find a new job easily.

And between the two of us, I would be the one who needs the help, not him.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't agree with maximum wage, but minimum wage increase is an absolute no-brainer MUST.

Minimum wage should reflect the cost of bare essential living. It does not. End of story.

But they are raising it. By 2017.

[Dukefrukem]

That changes nothing. People receiving enormous payouts for utterly failing is not OK.

If I fail at my job, I get fired and get nothing. A swift kick in the ass out the door.

If the CEO of my company fails, he'll get a huge payout and will find a new job easily.

And between the two of us, I would be the one who needs the help, not him.

So you have 10 million stock options (that you own) to cash out when you resign/retire.... is the company supposed to say, "oh you don't own those anymore,".....???????????????? ?

[megladon8]

But they are raising it. By 2017.

To a loveable wage? No.

[number8]

So the solution to this is raise their pay anyway? Even though that won't motivate them to go to school either?

We're talking about different things. I'm not interested in people's motivations for what they want to do in their lives. I care that someone who works full time isn't making ends meet. I think if someone mops human shit off of a Burger King floor for 35 hours a week, he should be paid enough money to afford a place to live and feed his kids.

Of those 500K jobs, what percentage of those people majored in communications, or liberal arts, or psychology or basket weaving? I mean, are we really that surprised they can't find work??

Less than you think. Those specialized fields have higher unemployment average, obviously, but not volume.

More interesting is the underemployment rate: according to the census bureau, the vast majority of people who graduate with STEM degrees (74 whopping percent) can't find a job in STEM fields.

[Dukefrukem]

To a loveable wage? No.

A few posts back I said that ~10$ would be the inflated 1965 real value of minimum wage.

It's going to $10.10 by 2017. That puts both a fam of 2 and 3 above the poverty line.

[Winston*]

To a loveable wage? No.

In France and Germany everyone gets a loveable wage, because they're paid in eros.