Agreed. To borrow a phrase, they're people "who are so lofty they sound as if they shit marble."Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan
Edd Stark was probably the most interesting; at least he was a bit torn in his loyalties.
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Agreed. To borrow a phrase, they're people "who are so lofty they sound as if they shit marble."Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan
Edd Stark was probably the most interesting; at least he was a bit torn in his loyalties.
Which Starks would that be? Robb has big shoes to fill, but I don't think he's a dull character. Arya? Catelyn? Bran?... What, Sansa and Rickon? Snow, even?
What a completely random thing to say.
Which shades are you seeing around Tywin? He's cold and authoritarian, and until this past episode, I would have said devoid of sentiment and familial love.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryan
Jaime is a weird one. He's central to a lot of action, but rarely seen (I'd bet his total screen time so far has come to less than half and hour). But he's pretty cartoonish, for my money, as his responses to most things seems to border on the sociopathic -- everything about him is violence, warranted or not.
Tyrion's not a character I generally lump in with the other Lannisters, as he's an outcast and at odds with everyone in his family.
Joffrey is the one I have the biggest problem with. It's a lot of fun to hate him (God, I do love those videos where Tyrion slaps him around again and again :P), but I'm disappointed that he's such an unrelenting little jerk. (It'd be more interesting, and open up new story avenues, if he was more the abusive-husband type, especially with the elder Stark girl -- ie, unrelentingly charming when he wants to be, but otherwise cruel and brutal).
Nah, he's a little shit and that's it. His mum says so, too.
Before this last episode, when he literally said that Arya reminded him of his daughter, that subtext was plenty there (even if Arya hardly reminds of current-age Cersei). He didn't have to give two shits about this girl as his cup bearer, but something in her impressed him, and not in a way he could exploit or condescend to. It was something he could genuinely appreciate and laud, within reason per their respective stations. In some ways, he confides in a little girl and tries to impart something of himself to her with regard to experiential wisdom. He's softly astounded to find a kind of distant, spiritual "equal" (heavy quotes) in a tiny girl servant. Considering he still doesn't know who she is, it's going to be interesting to see how this resolves itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish
Also, he's cold and authoritarian because he's Tywin Lannister fighting a war. It's expected of him, and it's probably all he really knows how to be, publicly. When he arrives at Harrenhal, he orders the man torturing everyone to stop, seeing it as useless when they could be used for better: labor (not exactly humanitarian, but at least their stomachs aren't being gnawed through by rats anymore).
EDIT: He also put Tyrion in his place as Hand and not, I suspect, just to get rid of him but because he figured his place was fighting the war and Tyrion would make for a good substitute. Shows some trust at least.
EDIT2: He's also made it clear once or twice that he values Jaime's life immensely. For his own reasons? Perhaps. But I wouldn't say it was cold.
Keep in mind this is still the same Tywin who had everyone in the kingsguard screw Tyrion's prostitute-turned-wife in front of him and pay her before making Tyrion go (that was the story he told Shae and whoever was with them when they played the drinking game last season). He is a cold-hearted bastard, but the show is tempering that with the Arya scenes. I don't mind it much since I agree those scenes are great, but I fear they're making him more sympathetic than he should be. It'll be interesting to see what direction they take him in. Oddly enough, Jaime is ultimately a far more sympathetic, well-rounded character in the books, but the show hasn't gotten around to his juicy parts yet (aside from when they're in Cersei).
Terrrrrrible. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
Guilty as charged. But if you can't make incest jokes about Game of Thrones, when can you!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryan
I dunno, you're nicer about it than I am. I read any kind of "you remind me of my daughter" stuff as slightly narcissistic (the idea being, if I like you, it's only because I perceive you to having the same qualities as me and my blood).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryan
I thought he made Tyrion the Hand because he didn't have anyone else (if Jaime were available, I doubt Tyrion would have gotten the job). These guys don't trust anyone outside their immediate circle, even to the point of displaying a certain murderous disdain towards their own cousins.
With Tywin, I thought the softening up this past episode was a ruse. I think this guy wouldnt hesitate to cut Arya's throat, hold her captive, or torture her if it served his immediate purpose. This was the first time he's shown anything more than a purely utilitarian outlook, but just the same I think he's playing her. He made a point of letting her story know he knew her "father" the stonemason was pure bull, and I think he's keeping her around until he finds out what her game is. He's too smart and too careful not to.
With Jaime, I think he only values Jaime's life as far as he's a tradeble asset. More than that, losing his eldest son would be deeply embarrassing, the Lannisters are hung up on appearances, especially Tywin (the Starks, on the other hand, are hung up on protocol).
This last episode was curious to me because we had two Lannisters get some shading, as you say, and I'm not sure whether to believe it just yet.
Good post. Thanks for the read.
Edit: @Derek :lol:
Thought this was the best episode of the season so far. Jaime's conversation with the squire was fantastic, likely earning Coster-Waldau a Cutty nomination ;)
Also, I had a huge smile on my face when Ygritte said, "You know nothing, Jon Snow" for the first time.
Yeah, glad to see them bring him back into things in a big way. But in terms of the most minor of all issues in potentially nominating him for a Cutty, even though he's technically second-billed out of the whole cast, this is only the second time he's appeared all season. Should we consider pushing him for Guest Star?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo
And I liked the episode a lot, at least all the way up until the final scene. I just felt the way they handled the last scene was just handled so strangely, both from the way the actors played it, the scripting of it (to spin it as a twist with so many of the in-between steps to understanding how it could have happened completely non-existent), and even the uncharacteristically cheap-sounding score that played it into the credits. I'm assuming it'll all be cleared up next week and we'll find out that the toasted bodies weren't in fact Bran and Rickon's, but even the way they made Theon look as confused as he did ended up playing very awkwardly and nonsensically to me.
Also can't believe that was already Episode 7 of the season. Time flies, but I also feel like this year they're building more towards the one big event (I'm assuming the inevitable battle) to happen in the last couple of episodes compared to last year where things seemed like they were kept on an evenly exciting scale while slowly elevating in stakes towards the end of the season.
Arya is the only one who is even remotely interesting. Slow is bland as hell, and the rest bore the shit out of me. Sometimes Catelyn does something interesting, I guess....eh.Quote:
Originally Posted by [ETM]
Edd Stark was good, but of course []Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish
As opposed to what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Qrazy
Charles Dance is fantastic on this show, btw. I know him best from one of my favorite 80s movies, The Golden Child.
Heh.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan
The Starks are intended to be boring by contrast to the other houses. They have a more rigid morality and earnestness and a lack of real political prowess that many of the other scheming houses do not. It is in fact their great downfall on more than one occasion.
If you can't even remember that detail, I don't have much hope for you as the series continues.Quote:
Ew.Quote:
Charles Dance is fantastic on this show, btw. I know him best from one of my favorite 80s movies, The Golden Child.
Yeah, I know, but that doesn't mean their characters have to be boring. Arya isn't boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
Eh, not really considering how many people have been killed on the show.Quote:
If you can't even remember that detail, I don't have much hope for you as the series continues.
My response to that is the following:Quote:
Ew.
[youtube]o50HHf9f_SQ[/youtube]
Which I still find really funny.
Except the other people killed in the first season weren't nearly as central as characters. Ned was literally in the middle of most of the major events of the first season and his death was a major cause of much of what has happened since. It's kinda like being 2/3 into Psycho and wondering where Janet Leigh is. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan
Face it, Derek. It's Madman,
I just imagine MadMan sitting there wondering where the hell Sean Bean is and why Robb Stark is fighting this war.
Wait, who's Robb? I thought Jon Snow was King of the North...is there another bearded Stark brother!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
[]
I'm not sure fans of Paul WS Anderson, and Resident Evil in particular, get to "ew" other people's favorites. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
:lol: You're on a roll lately with the good Game of Thrones humor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
(I can actually see forgetting who Robb Stark is, or being fuzzy on that name -- I thought it was strange that he didn't appear and wasn't mentioned for 2-3 episodes. As it stands, he's doesn't seem to be actively fighting a war. He's standing in a field making moony eyes at Lady Nursalot.)
You said Robb is ignoring the negative consequences of his war. So you would have him do what instead? Call off the war? He just said last episode that he wanted all of the wounded properly treated, so there you go he is not ignoring the consequences of his war.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan
Everyone keeps talking about how surprisingly good he was. I think they're even keeping count of his victories in the dialogue itself. Tywin Lannister mentioned Stark's gains at least twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish
I like that the show doesn't waste time showing the more minor battles since there are already more than enough characters and plot threads to deal with, but I can understand being confused about what exact Robb and his men are doing (ie, who exactly are these wounded men?) if you're not familiar with the books. The mentions of his significant victories are usually in passing, so it's not always made clear just how well the Northside have been doing in the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by [ETM]
Hmm, I thought it was clear that he's constantly advancing, causing lots of casualties for the Lannisters without losing too many men, while overextending himself, which is why Winterfell was left with little defense. There's almost no more room for prisoners, either.
The show doesn't depict any battles at all! (Mostly, I think, for budgetary reasons). I can understand why, but it's a bit of a shame, as the descriptions of fights I read in the first book were very well done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
The odd thing about Robb as a character is that his actions would seem to be massively important to the overall storyline, but we never see them. They also didn't, until very recently, produce any fallout for any other character (little to nothing has changed since Robb marched south). Unlike his sisters, he really doesn't have a personal story of his own. (This was also John Snow's problem, but at least Snow was placed in an interesting setting. Given Martin's tendency to introduce drama like a club to the head, it's not surprising that both Robb and John both recently got quasi-girlfriends).
Film and television often depict unimportant details and events offscreen. By choosing never to show Robb bravehearting around the Riverlands, they actually undercut him as a character in the audience's mind. They're telling us about his great strategies and numerous victories, without showing us.