Celeb (and Celeb SO's) Sexual Harassment Thread

Rose McGowan's saga seems to be getting weirder and sadder. Not sure if you guys heard about the bizarre blow-up she had at a Barnes & Noble last week, but yesterday her manager who she named as the one who set her up for Weinstein has committed suicide over the guilt and the manager's family is basically blaming McGowan.

And to add to the insanity, the trans woman who got into the shouting match with her at B&N is now being accused of preying on underage girls: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/201...ual-misconduct

I didn't find McGowan's 'blow-up' bizarre at all—she held her ground. The transwoman's tirade was woefully ill-timed, not to mention obnoxious and self-serving. Given what's come out about 'her', not a good look for the trans movement right now.

I meant the whole ordeal was bizarre, not just her, but her reaction in the aftermath was pretty odd. Rose is accusing the woman of being a paid plant and then accused her own managers and publicists of being complicit in Harvey Weinstein's conspiracy to either discredit or assassinate her.

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Originally Posted by Milky Joe

I didn't find McGowan's 'blow-up' bizarre at all—she held her ground. The transwoman's tirade was woefully ill-timed, not to mention obnoxious and self-serving. Given what's come out about 'her', not a good look for the trans movement right now.

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First of all, why are you putting "her" in quotation marks? Also, how does one person making a scene and being a perv discredit the trans movement as a whole? Isn't the whole point that everyone should have equal rights, unpleasant trans women included?

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Originally Posted by baby doll

First of all, why are you putting "her" in quotation marks? Also, how does one person making a scene and being a perv discredit the trans movement as a whole? Isn't the whole point that everyone should have equal rights, unpleasant trans women included?

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1) for obvious reasons 2) I didn't say it discredits it, just that it wasn't a good look.

The whole point of McGowan's publicity is to shed light on the abuses men commit against women, especially in Hollywood. And in the midst of that, here's a man with a proven track record of abusing women and girls, standing up and screeching about how he's a woman too and what has McGowan done for him? It's fucking insane.

Oh. You're one of those people.

I don't know why people always attack anyone with a cause saying "but what about this other cause? you do nothing for that!". Well, do it yourself since you're that worked up about it.

And yeah, I don't buy the paid plant angle either.

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Originally Posted by Milky Joe

1) for obvious reasons 2) I didn't say it discredits it, just that it wasn't a good look.

The whole point of McGowan's publicity is to shed light on the abuses men commit against women, especially in Hollywood. And in the midst of that, here's a man with a proven track record of abusing women and girls, standing up and screeching about how he's a woman too and what has McGowan done for him? It's fucking insane.

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Not to get all SJW about it, but even though this particular trans woman happens to be a predator, I still don't think it's cool to refer to trans women as men or put feminine pronouns in quotes, as the implication is that trans women aren't "real" women (which is precisely what she was calling McGowan out for at the book signing).

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Originally Posted by Grouchy

I don't know why people always attack anyone with a cause saying "but what about this other cause? you do nothing for that!". Well, do it yourself since you're that worked up about it.

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Clearly the reason he went after McGowan in particular is her history of making questionable statements about trans women.

Rose McGowan Makes 'Questionable Statements' about Men: news at 11.

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Originally Posted by Milky Joe

1) for obvious reasons

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Could you explain them? I find this attitude depressing and I'd like to understand the viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by Irish

Could you explain them? I find this attitude depressing and I'd like to understand the viewpoint.

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I don't think there's anything to understand. He's made it pretty clear he's transphobic.

Yeh even I find that post incredibly daft.

I've been trying to think how to respond to it since it posted. I got nothing.

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Originally Posted by Irish

Could you explain them? I find this attitude depressing and I'd like to understand the viewpoint.

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It's pretty simple. I don't believe in the ideology that promotes the idea that a man can just declare he is a woman. I find it just as outrageous and offensive as if a white person were to suddenly declare they are black (and deserving of affirmative action or minority protections fought for by black people). It's an insult to women and feminism. The second wave would be ashamed.

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Originally Posted by Milky Joe

It's pretty simple. I don't believe in the ideology that promotes the idea that a man can just declare he is a woman. I find it just as outrageous and offensive as if a white person were to suddenly declare they are black (and deserving of affirmative action or minority protections fought for by black people). It's an insult to women and feminism. The second wave would be ashamed.

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Thanks, Joe. I appreciate the direct response.

So, if I understand you correctly then---you believe that gender is absolutely fixed, doesn't exist on a spectrum, and isn't a social construct?

It’s very nice to see people being so calm and respectful when on two different sides of a very heated issue. Appreciate that it didn’t turn ugly.

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Originally Posted by Irish

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate the direct response.

So, if I understand you correctly then---you believe that gender is absolutely fixed, doesn't exist on a spectrum, and isn't a social construct?

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Actually, gender is entirely a social construct, to the point that it is essentially meaningless. Gender ≠ Sex.

'Patriarchy' is a sex-based hierarchy, not gender-based. The trans ideology actually reinforces stereotypical gender roles and tropes, harming pretty much everyone in the process. Especially gender non-conforming children. A boy who likes to play with dolls and wear pink in the past might have grown up to be a gay man, but now it's declared before he hits puberty that, because only women like dolls and pink dresses, he must be literally female, aka have 'ladybrain.' It's an absurdly reductive and regressive ideology.

I appreciate the non-jerkish or judgemental response, Irish (the exact opposite of number8's response). This is all basic gender critical feminism, I'm not some lone nut—it's just that we have somehow made it to a place in time where to question a man's right to declare himself a woman is considered anti-feminist.

Magdalen Burns' YT channel is a great resource to learn about this debate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-W2-Q0EOU

While I very much consider myself an ally of transgender people, it has never sat right with me when I hear of people pushing it on children.

A good friend of mine is a CIS gender straight man. As a kid his favorite toys were dolls and tea sets. I feel like today his parents would have felt great pressure to look at his assigned gender and whether it is “correct”.

But really, he was just a boy who liked doll houses and having tea parties.

I feel similarly about some of the more “fringe” parenting happening now where parents believe in not even acknowledging their child’s sex and leaving it up to the child to decide what they are. There are oodles of studies out there showing how important it is in a child’s development and emotional growth - it’s one of the first pieces of “identity” that they latch on to.

The whole thing retroactively makes Richard Jenkins "I always wanted to be a dinosaur" speech in Step-Brothers seem quaintly outdated.

Now, his parents would just say, "you're a dinosaur, you say? wow! hey everyone, I gave birth to a dinosaur!" and then go buy him his dinosaur suit.

I haven't seen Step Brothers, but if a guy wants to claim hes a dinosaur, if hes not hurting anyone, why the fuck crap should I give a flying fuck crap?

*adjusted to not seem so aggressive

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Originally Posted by Skitch

I haven't seen Step Brothers, but if a guy wants to claim hes a dinosaur, if hes not hurting anyone, why the fuck crap should I give a flying fuck crap?

*adjusted to not seem so aggressive

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Agreed.

That's a response to my joke response. I wouldn't care if anyone decided they were a dinosaur because there are no real dinosaurs who would be pushed to the side in favor of the fake dinosaurs, who actually claim to be MORE oppressed than real dinosaurs because they grew up being not-dinosaurs. The same cannot be said for transwomen.

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Originally Posted by Milky Joe

That's a response to my joke response. I wouldn't care if anyone decided they were a dinosaur because there are no real dinosaurs who would be pushed to the side in favor of the fake dinosaurs, who actually claim to be MORE oppressed than real dinosaurs because they grew up being not-dinosaurs. The same cannot be said for transwomen.

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Whether or not one group is more oppressed than the other, or some guy on the internet considers trans women "fake" women, it's indisputable that trans women are more likely to be raped, murdered, or commit suicide than the general population.

Also, all this talk about gender reassignment surgery being foisted unnecessarily upon children in order to satisfy some liberal agenda strikes me as Jordan Peterson-level hysteria. It's far more often the case that people who need the surgery can't access it.

Regarding this big can of worms we've just opened, my stance is that the gender identity you choose to go through your life with is your fucking choice, same as your hair style, your favorite band, or your drug addiction. Whatever you're doing that seemingly makes you happy and doesn't harm others is your choice and kudos to you on that.

I once made a very close lesbian friend of mine laugh and after she was done laughing, she said "never repeat this in front of my trans friends". My point was that when you feel that you're a woman trapped in a man's body and you craft your trans identity, you always choose to be the most attractive woman you can become. You don't choose to be a Jewish Orthodox lady or the Bolivian woman who works at the grocery store or the laundry place. You choose to be a hot chick. In a way, you choose to be a straight man's idea of what a woman is like.

That being said, yeah, of course, most trans women are in a position of danger. It's not like you can work at a bank or even at the neighborhood pharmacy, even though you could work that job (theoretically) with a svastika tattooed on your forehead. I'm Argentinian so I live in another reality from you guys except for Beau. And it's not like I'm so deep into the gay lifestyle that I know a lot of trans people - I have a friend who runs a theater company made entirely of trans actors, though. They did a version of The House of Bernarda Alba, which is a famous play by GarcÃ*a Lorca where the entire cast is female. But the ones I see walking the street (and, in fact, most of my friend's actresses) are either prostitutes or drug dealers or both.