Orange is the New Black (Season 4)

Holy crap, has anyone here seen this yet?

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Originally Posted by DavidSeven, commenting on Season 3

I definitely felt they got back to some of the light-heartedness that made Season 1 so good.

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Piper is no longer the "lead"; she's now just part of the ensemble, and so much the better. The writing on this show mirrors current events like no other show on television. It's definitely darker and more harrowing (and no longer a "comedy" by the way). As a fan of the first three seasons, it's hard to describe how the last two episodes of this season have affected me.

This season is fucking special.

Oh, and Lori Petty, you will richly deserve the Emmy that you are likely to receive.

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...pscnxeg0ib.jpg

Do NOT read this until you've seen all of Season 4. If you have finished Season 4, then read it because it is so awesome.

Only a couple eps left, but I'm kind of done with this show. Its not bad, I just find myself completely losing interest. Lori Petty does deserve attention.

This season really grabbed me after being underwhelmed by seasons 2 & 3. I felt a strong sense of direction and purpose. Cutting down focus on Piper was a wise move, as was limiting flashbacks to episodes where they are narratively useful.

I also feel like they weren't pulling their punches. This season had some real stakes, and both the physically and psychological violence hit hard. (Baby mouse... brrrrrrr.

The penultimate episode knocked me on my butt. The last episode kicked me when I was down. But the last five seconds made me yell "STOP. STOP IT." And then I cried for several minutes and I honestly can't remember the last time a show brought me to tears.

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Originally Posted by Mara

The penultimate episode knocked me on my butt. The last episode kicked me when I was down. But the last five seconds made me yell "STOP. STOP IT." And then I cried for several minutes and I honestly can't remember the last time a show brought me to tears.

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Same here. Those last two episodes felt like the big payoff, not just for this season, but for the series as a whole. Particularly after having come to know the characters so well.

Oh, and about those last 5 seconds? [

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The close-up in NYC, right? The entire flashback was a thing of beauty and a great sendoff. Indulgent, yes, but deservedly so. I think we needed that closure. And it makes sense given who wrote the penultimate episode.

]

Read the link I posted in my previous post. And have the tissues handy.

I'll have to finish this season they way you guys are talking about it. Who knows, maybe it can snag me again.

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Originally Posted by Skitch

I'll have to finish this season they way you guys are talking about it. Who knows, maybe it can snag me again.

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Believe me, you are going to want to watch the entirety of Season 4 of Orange is the New Black. Simply because those last two episodes are game-changers. I would put those up against the last two episodes of Game of Thrones (apples and oranges, I know). As phenomenal as those last two episodes of GoT were, I have to give the slight edge to Orange. All I know is, we're in a new Golden Age of television, and it's real and it's spectacular.

WOW, okay I will. (He said as though he had a choice, because wife is still into it.) :)

I hung around for THAT? That carried zero emotional weight. If she fell against a wall it wouldve been more impactful but that?? Man that felt cheap and exploitive. I felt nothing off of that moment. Nothing. Maybe just anger at weak writing. Sorry, but there are half a dozen better angles they couldve easily gone.

I'm 3 episodes into Season 4. I didn't watch any of Season 3. Why doesn't anyone care that one of the guards is missing? I know he was just a hitman or whatever, but he still worked there. Isn't anyone wondering why he isn't showing up for shifts?

Also, I don't think Lori Petty is giving a good performance. I think Lori Petty is just acting like herself.

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Originally Posted by amberlita

I'm 3 episodes into Season 4. I didn't watch any of Season 3. Why doesn't anyone care that one of the guards is missing? I know he was just a hitman or whatever, but he still worked there. Isn't anyone wondering why he isn't showing up for shifts?

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In the last episode of Season 3, most of the guards staged a walkout en masse. As far as anyone knew, he was part of that walkout.

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Originally Posted by Skitch

I hung around for THAT? That carried zero emotional weight. If she fell against a wall it wouldve been more impactful but that?? Man that felt cheap and exploitive. I felt nothing off of that moment. Nothing. Maybe just anger at weak writing. Sorry, but there are half a dozen better angles they couldve easily gone.

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Skitch, I appreciate your feedback and I think I understand your reaction.

The entire season was so obviously highly politicized that it couldn't help but be divided on certain drawn lines. What I don't understand is when you say "that carried zero emotional weight'.

Use spoilers if you have to, but could you explain that reaction for me?

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Originally Posted by Russ

Skitch, I appreciate your feedback and I think I understand your reaction.

The entire season was so obviously highly politicized that it couldn't help but be divided on certain drawn lines. What I don't understand is when you say "that carried zero emotional weight'.

Use spoilers if you have to, but could you explain that reaction for me?

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[

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I felt there were plenty of candidates to be killed off, so for it to be Poussey (sp?) was bad enough, but for it to be in such an nonsensical matter just made it feel ridiculous and a stupid "gotcha!" type moment. I felt abused by the writing. If she had to go, it would've been far less obnoxious if during the fracas she had fallen and hit her head or something. She just laid there while he barely held her with one hand...and died? Stopped breathing? She didn't even struggle.

It carried no weight with me because there were more than a few other characters that could've been killed that would've had an emotional impact on the arc of the season. Red, Crazy Eyes, Alex, Sophia, Nicky, Healy...the bastard new guard...I felt they all had more going on this season than Poussey. It just felt like a random selection for surprise and nothing more.

]

But thats just me. Maybe I'm all wrong and it was meaningful.

Thanks, Skitch, I really appreciate your feedback. I'll add some thoughts to follow.

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Originally Posted by Russ

In the last episode of Season 3, most of the guards staged a walkout en masse. As far as anyone knew, he was part of that walkout.

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Oh ok. That makes sense. That's been alluded to a few times.

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Originally Posted by Russ

Thanks, Skitch, I really appreciate your feedback. I'll add some thoughts to follow.

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In talking with my neighbor, we've come to conclusion I havent finished yet. I guess I was mistaken thinking that was last ep. I will finish this season, and I'll back off emotion a bit because I sincerely thought that was how they were ending it :D.

For me, the "event" was the culmination of the themes of the season, but I will wait on my thoughts until you watch the last episode.

amberlita, have you seen Lori Petty's flashback episode? The actress who played the young version of Lolly, Christina Brucato, absolutely nailed Petty's character's mannerisms to a tee. It was a truly amazing thing to see!

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...psxgpdoelc.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mara

For me, the "event" was the culmination of the themes of the season, but I will wait on my thoughts until you watch the last episode.

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Agree 100%.

For me, the two big themes were:

[

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1. How would you "fix" things if you could go back in time, and...
2. Everybody deserves respect (Hey! I'm a person!)

]

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Originally Posted by Russ

amberlita, have you seen Lori Petty's flashback episode? The actress who played the young version of Lolly, Christina Brucato, absolutely nailed Petty's character's mannerisms to a tee. It was a truly amazing thing to see!

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...psxgpdoelc.jpg

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We had to look up who she was because we were convinced she was Pettys daughter or something. Scary good performance.

See and I thought [

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the event you guys were alluding to was Poussays death. I was like "how did that bring the season together??"

]

See my confusion? Well dont worry, dumb dumb here will finish the season and reevaluate. I stand by my thoughts on that other event though :p

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Originally Posted by Skitch

See and I thought [

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the event you guys were alluding to was Poussays death. I was like "how did that bring the season together??"

]

See my confusion? Well dont worry, dumb dumb here will finish the season and reevaluate. I stand by my thoughts on that other event though :p

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[

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By "the event" I did mean Poussey's death, but we can talk about it once you're done.

]

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Originally Posted by Russ

amberlita, have you seen Lori Petty's flashback episode? The actress who played the young version of Lolly, Christina Brucato, absolutely nailed Petty's character's mannerisms to a tee. It was a truly amazing thing to see!

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Oh yeah she was fantastic. I actually thought at first blush that it was Lori Petty with a wig on and a hella good make-up job. She definitely nailed it.

I finished the season. It's hard to say how good it is in the entire scope of four seasons because I became so disillusioned with it in season 2, completely skipping season 3, but I thought it was extremely watchable. I suspect, though, that I wouldn't have found it as well-done as I did if a friend hadn't sent me this link a few weeks ago:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...tigation-bauer

Moreso than anything this season seemed to be an indictment on the privatization of prisons, which I knew very little about until reading that extremely long but incredibly fascinating article. While I understand Skitch's perspective to a point [

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I was never really all that take with Poussey

], I think it was a poignant move to highlight the degradation of the system by making its two "victims" be two of the most decent people on the show. Any of the others that you mentioned, Skitch...they are all players. They want to upend the system or exploit it, whatever. These two, though? Just caught up in it to tragic end.

Now that Ive actually watched the real season ender, I agree amberlita. The really sent her off well and painfully touching, makes me feel much better about everything. Again, my outrage was fully in the mindset that previous ep was season ender, so it felt just so damn cold.

Glad the last episode mitigated it for you a little bit. My thoughts:

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This season was obsessed with systems of power and corruption, and I was really interested in how it played out. There's this trickle-down dehumanization coming from the privatization of Litchfield, and eventually someone was going to get hurt.

That is was Poussey made sense. She's one of the few reliably compassionate, involved inmates and we've seen her protect Suzanne over the last several years. She's middle class and clever and thinks that everyone should be able to talk things out. She's also tiny, small enough that she could never fight off a grown man. She's small enough to get crushed.

And I thought it was brilliant to have poor Bayley be the accidental aggressor, since he is innocuous to a fault. He's dumb and cheery and panics when too much happens at once. If it was Hannibal-Lector-Guard or Sometimes-you-have-to-rape-an-Iraqi-Guard it would have felt like a murder, instead of what it was: a failure of the system. Poor management by MCC led to the walk-out of serviceable guards and the employment of PTSD-ridden guards who see the inmates as enemy combatants. Overcrowding led to violence and unrest. Peaceful protests turned into psychological warfare. Lack of training and oversight led to Suzanne being so deeply traumatized that she throws a fit that distracts an entire room from the fact that a woman is being suffocated in front of them.

And the fallout in the final episode-- SHEESH. I thought Poussey's flashback was great, showing us so much of who she was before she was locked up. And the utter dehumanization of her poor body, just leaving her on the floor like trash while men in suits try to smear her name... I can't. I just can't.

And then in that final shot she breaks the fourth wall and grins at us like:
https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/upl...to=format&q=70

And I'm in tears. It totally, totally hit me.

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Side note: how freaking great was Beth Dover this year? I was disappointed she only had a couple lines last year and thought it was a total waste, but she brought it. Oh, Linda from Purchasing, you're nuts.

I agree with just about everything you said, but [

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still feel a little jaded that theyve burned (arguably) the two most "rootable" character from either side in one swoop.

]

Granted, we dont know where its headed, but I hope we have someone really sympathetic in season 5.

Edit : also, tears for me too. Could bearly handle the retrospective aspects.