Should re-post this article that Wats posted a few days ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watashi
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Should re-post this article that Wats posted a few days ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watashi
Just to clarify this is what I meant when I said "feminist extremists". While I don't know any in person, Jen does quite a bit of reading on feminist blogs and the like, and people with the attitude of "all men are scum and rapists" are angering, and actually more damaging to the cause than helpful. But, like I said, I disagree with extremism of any cause. These are the people who give the genuine forward-thinkers a bad reputation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mara
Yes you should! I would love to read some of your work.Quote:
Actually, I never talk about it on these boards, but I'm actually deeply involved with a magazine specifically geared towards feminists of my religious faith (I write for them, plus read the submissions and do some editing.)
Maybe I should talk about some of that stuff more.
These guys are loaded. Whether it's self-righteousness or PCP, their mutual demeanors make me very nervous.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
The quality of the video is not the point. Let's say every single thing in the video is factually wrong, and that every opinion she uttered was the worst, most wrong thing to ever be uttered in the history of humankind. Even if these things were true, she still wouldn't deserve the kind of treatment she is receiving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
However, she's receiving that treatment because she is a women encroaching and invading a boys' club, a club that perceives there to be some kind of secret, liberal agenda out to destroy them and taint their hobby.
Curious if you'd like to expound on this? Anita's videos are critical theory 101. I always find them interesting. I'm not seeing "misguided" uses of "background decoration."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
I've largely stopped gaming. There's some aspects of the culture I really enjoyed. I have to admit I got a kick out of the laconic, cynical, hyper-macho culture around PvP related gameplay. Although I never understood why that meant it also had to be homophobic and misogynistic, too.
Also: Huge +1 to Watashi.
I dont think anyone here is arguing the treatment she is getting is bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
I think we are just attacking my post on hating feminists like I hate hipsters.
She shows a video of Dead Island where a woman is in a bikini tied to bed. It's a quick shot of it, because if you actually notice the environment, there's a lot of kinky stuff going on around the room. It's because she was doing some S&M with another male, (who is not shown and already dead) and the woman was infected and turned into a zombie so she stayed tied to the bed. So the quick shot doesn't put the scene into context and doesn't even reference the male in the room. Only the woman. And it's not even a woman to begin with. It's a zombie. And the game is called Dead Island, because it takes place on an Island, and everyone you encounter on the island is in a bathing suit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish
Most of her other examples using Assassins's Creed 2, Brotherhood and Revelations are historically accurate. So I don't know what that's such a big problem.
Well, I'm going to take a little bit of issue with your terminology, since it presumes that if a complaint is "legitimate" is it not feminist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
RE: the videos.
Again, I'm going to disclaim that I am not a gamer. I don't have anything against game-playing generally, but it's an expensive hobby and I never got really hooked on it. But I personally found those videos horrifying. Some of it I expected, like the "fridging" trope which is so common in games/television/films that I want to punch someone every time I see it. ("Fridging, by the way, is introducing a female character whose only job is to be brutally killed in order to motivate the male hero into fighting.)
But some of the stuff in those videos were fucking horrible. It was full of female characters, highly sexualized, who are only programed to come on to the hero, be beat up, be raped, and often be killed. There was one game where you got extra points if you hog-tied a woman, (a prostitute, of course) carried her to a train track (while she continued to proposition you) and then left her to get hit by a train. In one of the Grand Theft Autos there was a mini-game where you tried to feel up a stripper without the management noticing, and if you did, she would have sex with you.
In that way, this particular set of videos are actually calling out game developers, not gamers. It's so widely assumed that heterosexual men are the only people who play video games (although statistically, this is not even close to true) that games are catering to the lowest common denominator of that demographic. It's cheap, sloppy, and insulting.
Anita isn't casting around desperately trying to find something to be insulted about. She's a gamer. She loves games. She thinks that games should be able to incorporate women without making them weak, hypersexual stereotypes.
Anyway. My two cents.
Patrick Klepek, one of the industries brightest minds, gave a great TedX talk about discourse on the internet. Well worth the watch, and his blog and articles on Giant Bomb are always thoughtful and worth reading. He talks about the topic at hand frequently, and thoughtfully.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u01Qs4x1S_U
I think my last 2 posts cleared this up but if they haven't let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitty - formerly known as Goofy20202
I have not heard of this, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mara
Hope my statement in extreme/radical feminism didn't come across too ignorant.
Feminism is something I have taken to pretty whole-heartedly as of late. I'm really seeing more and more of modern societies follies as I learn more about it. In the Guardians of the Galaxy thread I mentioned how I am constantly seeing things I never noticed before.
Similar to what Wats said earlier, I feel that if you don't have an interest in bettering female treatment and representation in society, you're kind of a jerk.
It's weird how these anti-feminist/LGBT guys online use the phrase "Social Justice Warrior" as a negative. As if wanting equality for all is a bad thing. This very fact demonstrates what their true agenda is.
For reference, one of the last games that I bought and played was 2007 version of Overlord. I bought it for my PC because a friend of mine (female) raved about how fun it was to play the bad guy.
And it was fun!
And because I'm not a total innocent, I expected a bunch of objectification, and I got it. There are two possible love interests, the "good" girl and the "bad" girl, and they both want nothing else in life than to be sexed up by the main character. He chooses one or the other (and can actually choose to kill one if he gets tired of her.) Also all the background characters were programmed with 1-2 lines each, and most of the female ones would swoon and proposition the main guy if you got close.
Pretty standard stuff.
But after I had played the game through once I looked online for side quests I hadn't completed, and I found one that pumped up your power if you abducted and enslaved ten women. You could tell the women you were supposed to enslave because they were the prettiest and least dressed. You had to track them and attack them while they screamed and tried to get away.
You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRScS5rMi8c
I was wary, but kind of started playing it. Once the women are enslaved, they are then at your castle, even less dressed than before, and... that was it. They don't do anything. They just hang around the castle.
I found it really upsetting. I tried to take the girls back, but there wasn't an option for that.
I stopped playing the game.
Isn't it obvious? Only men should have any say in this world. Only men who wear trench coats and fedoras can have the final say on equality.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
m'lady.
I didn't finish this. Seemed like a lot of posturing and chest-beating.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
I know about Sarkeesian from a Facebook friend, who posts links to other videos tearing her down. His posts have grown more irritating as of late, full of flimsy-at-best arguments.
I've watched two of the tear-down videos of the handful he's posted. I don't remember much about the first one, aside from thinking the creator of the video was kind of a loser. I watched the second one, still never having watched any of Sarkeesian's videos, mind you, and listened as the creator spun off into wild conjecture about her "real" motivations. I decided to stop watching the videos he's posted.
But, sometimes he posts images, too. The last one was a simplification of the issue. And that's when I began thinking about unfriending him.
Duke, for the record, I am also a feminist. In fact, I'd say that many of the male members of this board, judging by their posts, would consider themselves feminists.
You mean you're Pro-feminism. You're not a feminist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa Fan
Uhm, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
No, he means feminist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
I'm becoming really kind of concerned that you might not know what feminist means.
As a refresher:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminist?s=t
Feminist
adjective
1. advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men.
noun
2. an advocate of such rights.
No, I am absolutely a feminist. I believe very strongly in and advocate for social, political, and economic equality for women. That makes me a feminist. That is the very definition of feminism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
Being a feminist is supporting the ideology of equal rights between men and women. But it also includes actively demonstrating, promoting,and supporting that idea. If you just sit back and agree with everything but don't do anything, that's just being pro feminism, not a feminist.
Yeh key word advocate. You can agree with things all you'd like, but if you're not doing anything then you're just passively being pro-feminism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mara
To advocate means to publicly support. Do I march on city hall? No, but that doesn't mean I'm not a feminist. That doesn't mean I don't advocate. I'm publicly arguing with you right now. :P