Random Thoughts

Yeah, this entire conversation is a bit ridiculous. You aren't lying to your kids. You're telling them a story. Until Syco, I wasn't aware of one kid who was affected in any way by finding out Santa isn't real. I don't mean to single you out, Syco. I hope it doesn't read that way. I had just never heard of it before.

My wife and I do things differently. Santa brings them three gifts each. The rest are from us. And they're usually just fun toys, nothing huge. We prep them before they visit Santa on what they're going to ask for (obviously it's always things they put on their list, we just make sure they ask for things we purchased for them). When they don't believe anymore, no big deal. We do it because it's fun for us and it's fun for them. I don't see any way that someone can look at the excitement in a child who can't wait to visit Santa and who jumps up and down and tries to stay up to see him on Christmas Eve and come to the conclusion that it's somehow a damaging practice.

Santa is real, dudes. I saw him at the mall yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Sycophant

You're telling them something you know isn't true with the intention of convincing them it's true. I call it lying.

I've considered an alternate where I tell them it's a myth and observe it anyway, just to enjoy the tradition, but that's probably not necessary.

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I'm very interested in what you'd say to your 8 year old when he asks you where babies come from.

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Originally Posted by Dukefrukem

I'm very interested in what you'd say to your 8 year old when he asks you where babies come from.

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No shit about a stork. That's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Sycophant

No shit about a stork. That's for sure.

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Well you sure as hell can't tell them the truth, so what's the alternative?

Either the truth, a somewhat simplified version of it, or that I'll tell them when they're older.

I will not tell my kids Santa is real. They will know damn well that their gifts come from good old St. Capitalism.

I think I'm coming down on the side of Santa.

I'd forgotten this one event when I was four. My mother had remarried that year and so my new step-dad was very excited to have a family Christmas with young children. It happened that Christmas was on a Sunday, so my parents told us that Santa would come while we were at church and we could open presents afterward, instead of trying to fit it all in early in the morning.

We lived in a small student apartment, and I looked longingly at the presents before we left.

When we came home, Santa had magically come and our presents had doubled, while we were away! And we didn't have a chimney or anything. Most magical of all, Santa had brought me a child-sized wooden Strawberry Shortcake table. That may not seem like much, but both my parents were in grad school at the time and we had no money. It was the biggest gift I'd ever received.

Years later, the table had broken and been mended, been sanded and repainted, and was finally thrown out when my parents left Michigan, when I was nineteen. So, I finally broke down and asked my mom how Santa had managed to get everything into our apartment. Mom laughed-- she didn't know I even remembered that-- and said Dad snuck out of church to assemble everything, and that he'd had it hiding at a neighbor's apartment who was out of town.

And, you know what? That's a great memory for me. It was magical when I was a kid, because of Santa, and it's sort of magical for me as an adult, too, because even that early on my step-dad loved me enough to give me that surprise. And I love the idea of him, newly a father of two, twenty-eight years old, sneaking home to make Christmas for us.

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Originally Posted by Barty

I will not tell my kids Santa is real. They will know damn well that their gifts come from good old St. Capitalism.

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Damn right they do.

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Originally Posted by Irish

Well you sure as hell can't tell them the truth, so what's the alternative?

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My mother and father never lied to me about sex, or where all those siblings kept coming from. They just gave it to me simplified, like Syco said. And explained further as I understood more. ("If the baby is in your belly, where does your food go?" "The baby has its own special place in my body to grow.")

That's a great story Mara, and it's exactly why my wife and I do it. Moments from Christmas have made a lasting impression, both as a child and now as a parent, and to have those moments never happen because I'm worried that telling my child about Santa will emotionally damage them would have been a tragic mistake. I'm sure I'll find plenty of ways to emotionally damage my kids before all is said and done. Santa will probably be low on their list.

And for the record, I haven't lied to my son (only the oldest has inquired) about sex either. I told him as tactfully and simply as I could. I don't think it's necessary to lie to kids about that, but I made sure he understood that this was a discussion for him only, and that he under no circumstances was tell his brother or his friends, that it's a discussion that takes place between parents and kids.

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Originally Posted by Barty

I will not tell my kids Santa is real. They will know damn well that their gifts come from good old St. Capitalism.

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But gifts are given in non-Capitalist countries, too. Also, there is no real requirement that a gift needs to be bought with federal capital. I could write a poem, for instance.

I gotta say Syco, I'm a little saddened for your future children. No Santa, no Easter Bunny, no Tooth Fairy (a great tool to have children willingly get rid of the nasty baby teeth); thrown into the world from age 3 with the realization that magic and fairy tales aren't real. I hope you also take the hard stance that it is very likely they cannot be whatever they want to be and need to be realistic about their own limitations, whatever those may be. And if they go for a sport or instrument and aren't very good that you give them the cold hard truth that they should be better or move on.

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Originally Posted by endingcredits

But gifts are given in non-Capitalist countries, too. Also, there is no real requirement that a gift needs to be bought with federal capital. I could write a poem, for instance.

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My in-laws have a billion Christmas traditions (seriously, they schedule the holiday like you wouldn't believe) and one of them is on Christmas Eve they all gather and give "gifts that can't be wrapped" to each other-- like a song or a poem or something.

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Originally Posted by endingcredits

But gifts are given in non-Capitalist countries, too. Also, there is no real requirement that a gift needs to be bought with federal capital. I could write a poem, for instance.

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Even giving a gift is Capitalist!

Besides, I was joking. :P

Wait, what's a "simplified version"?

Some hokey bit about "Well, when two people love each other very much they give each other a special hug and nine months later ... "?

Lying to your kids about sexual reproduction could have profound consequences in the future, so I guess I only advocate lying to children when there is no malicious intent and the repercussions of telling that falsehood are trivial.

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Originally Posted by Irish

Wait, what's a "simplified version"?

Some hokey bit about "Well, when two people love each other very much they give each other a special hug and nine months later ... "?

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I don't know exactly. Fortunately I've got quite a while to get this figured out and will have a partner to decide with me what's best. But it should be open, honest, and not as horrifyingly damaging as the way my mother explained it to me.

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Originally Posted by Raiders

I gotta say Syco, I'm a little saddened for your future children. No Santa, no Easter Bunny, no Tooth Fairy (a great tool to have children willingly get rid of the nasty baby teeth); thrown into the world from age 3 with the realization that magic and fairy tales aren't real. I hope you also take the hard stance that it is very likely they cannot be whatever they want to be and need to be realistic about their own limitations, whatever those may be. And if they go for a sport or instrument and aren't very good that you give them the cold hard truth that they should be better or move on.

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Just realized this is probably 10x harsher than I intended. I was trying to facetiously point out the sheer amount of things parents do for their children that could be constituted as "lying." If it was a personal torment for Syco then obviously he is right to handle it with his children as he wishes; but that situation is unique and most find out fairly organically through friends and their own inquiries once the cognitive development reaches a point they can deduce the unlikeliness of it.

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Originally Posted by Sycophant

... as horrifyingly damaging as the way my mother explained it to me.

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I must know.

Please tell your children there is a Santa Claus, then us Jews in the classroom can profit off of their ridiculous gullibility. Muahahahaha. MUAHAHHAHAHHAAHA!!!!

(Santa Claus: A Jewish invention to sell toys from our factories)

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Originally Posted by Barty

I will not tell my kids Santa is real. They will know damn well that their gifts come from good old St. Capitalism.

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You know, you could probably teach them a more profound lesson if you tell them that instead of bringing gifts, St. Fascist would be taking away 35% of their toys this year and giving them to other kids in the neighborhood. He's also taking over half your bedroom. Because he can.

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Originally Posted by DavidSeven

You know, you could probably teach them a more profound lesson if you tell them that instead of bringing gifts, St. Fascist would be taking away 35% of their toys this year and giving them to other kids in the neighborhood. He's also taking over half your bedroom. Because he can.

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Indeed.

Instead of an Angel on the top of the tree, it could be a government agent being impaled.

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Originally Posted by Sycophant

I don't know exactly. Fortunately I've got quite a while to get this figured out and will have a partner to decide with me what's best. But it should be open, honest, and not as horrifyingly damaging as the way my mother explained it to me.

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You're making it sound like torture... Did you not attend sex-ed?