Sweet. My confidence has been restored. I'll read the second one this summer.
Printable View
Sweet. My confidence has been restored. I'll read the second one this summer.
I love this show.
There are so many Powerful Dogs in this show.
Loved this episode. It was kind of like what "Justified" did last week - mostly people talking, but it did great at introducing new locations and major characters/events with just enough exposition to keep things interesting while going forward. I loved both what the old woman told Bran about the last long winter, and what the blind priest told Tyrion at the Wall - very colorful and convincing side characters are essential if something of this scope is going to work. Carcetti did great. I also loved how it all does indeed look epic enough. The use of real old structures on Malta for as much of King's Landing as possible really helps, as the extensions look that more convincing - except for a few obvious matte backgrounds, it very much looked real. LOVE the Wall. Love it.
The Wall is a fantastic setpiece, for sure.
I would disagree with you about the bit where they kept things moving forward, though. This last ep largely felt like treading water. Catelyn and Arya were the only characters who really moved the plot anywhere. Everyone else was too busy talking about what is going to happen or what happened years ago. Not that laying foundation like that is a bad thing, persay, just not a terribly interesting one.
Everything that was talked about was important and deepened the tapestry. I was thoroughly entertained. Several moments were among my favorite so far in the whole show.
The first example that pops into my head is the scene between The King, Tywin Lannister, and Jaime when they discuss their first kill. The only relevant piece of information to come out of that scene was that Jaime killed the former Targaryan king, which we already knew. That scene was probably four or five minutes long. Deepened the tapestry, sure, but moments like this cause the pace to stagnate.
I've seen reviewers long for more scenes like that. It tells more about the King as a character than any of the scenes from the three episodes, and it's not even from the book.
i thought daenerys stuff was the most intriguing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
this is my favorite episode thus far. it reminded me of the wire in it's construction. even though it dumped a bunch more characters and backstory on me and i'm confused again right when i thought i had the hang of things.
Loved the last two episodes. This is the kind of show that I wish I could stack up a season's worth and watch them all at once.
I'm still ambivalent. My biggest complaint is that I feel like the pace is actually moving too quickly on some of the subplots. For instance, Jon Snow is detested and assaulted at the Wall after training, and in that same episode, he's becoming buddy-buddy with those same guys. In the course of the novel, it felt like much more time was elapsing on these subplots because of how long it would take to read other sections before returning to Snow, Daenerys, Arya, etc., but in the show it's a matter of minutes before resolutions are emerging. It feels too fast, unearned for the most part.
Also, I think the use of "fuck" feels really forced. I don't remember having a problem with it as I was reading the novel, but hearing it out loud during the show, it feels really out of place most of the time.
Maybe this method would help capture more of my interest. I still find there is just too much going on in too many disparate locations. For instance, am I supposed to even understand where Daenerys is in relation to everyone else? I assume things such as why her brother believes he is a rightful king will come into play and be explained, so I can handle the confusion there (or is he just trying to use the Dothraki army to overthrow the throne?). I just can't shake the feeling that I've been thrown into the middle of the story and the show either expects me to find out the previous details or is going to very slowly explain them and in the mean time I have to just deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish
Where Daenerys is and why her brother wants to take back the throne has already been addressed. Their family name is Targaryen, and that is the king that Jamie Lannister killed in the last war. Viserys is trying to regain the throne that was taken from his family. They are both on the other side of the ocean from the island in which Winterfell and King's Landing reside. The King and Eddard Stark had that conversation in the first episode, when the King mentioned that Daenerys was to marry a Dothraki, and Eddard told him not to worry about her, that the Targaryen family wasn't a threat, and that the Dothraki didn't even have boats to cross the sea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
They move through these things quickly because to do otherwise would make each episode be bogged down in a ton of exposition. It'd be easier on you to do a quick investigation online, or just ask in here, if something is confusing you.
It's not that far fetched. In order of asking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
- the map is shown every time during credits, and tit takes special care to point out that Penthos and the Dothraki lands behind it are just across the Narrow Sea from King's Landing. The Targaryens were exiled, but not far, and news travels fast.
- as explained in the show, they are the sole surviving members of the Targaryen clan, because Baratheon, the current king, overthrew the Mad King, their grandfather, with the aid of Starks and Lannisters (Jaime Lannister has killed the previous king, and is now called "Kingslayer", as was pointed out several times by pretty much everyone). This wasn't in the show but is good to know - the Targaryens conquered Westeros with the aid of the last three dragons in the world, and there are none alive anymore. The dragon is the symbol of their family, and it's why Viserys refers to his temper as "waking the dragon". It's also why Daenerys was gifted petrified dragon eggs. Viserys claims the throne as the rightful heir of the Targaryen dinasty, and hopes to reclaim it with Dothraki aid, through his sister's marriage.
I feel that, save for few tiny details, the show has set these things up very nicely so far, but it does take a lot of attention.
KF beat me to it.:P
HBO's done really well with the official guide on their website, I think it lays these things out pretty well, and doesn't spoil or overburden with information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa Fan
Yeah, I almost didn't mention investigating online, because the odds of getting spoiled are pretty high. Good to know that HBO is taking care of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by [ETM]
Ok, I'm dumb, not paying attention, whatever. I have done research and do know these things, but my question is posed strictly from what the show has conveyed. She is across the sea? What sea? I have tried to follow the opening credits to better understand, but it is still somewhat confusing logistically. I honestly don't remember the show going through the preceding war to such a degree as you imply, it seems to me some of that information is not contained in the actual episodes but online and in the books. As I said, I have read all the extra material and do know what is going on; I simply posed my concerns from the viewpoint of what the show has explicitly conveyed and I find it to be muddled and confusingly presented. I am enjoying the series so far and am more complaining that at 9pm on Sunday night, it is asking me to process a lot of information after only three episodes. The plotlines as described could fill out a lot of space and time and it is compressed almost to afterthought.
Dude, chill. We're just saying it's there. I haven't read anything except for the stuff on the website, and I found everything in the show accessible. The way it's portrayed makes it more enjoyable for me, because it's there, and I'm not being spoon-fed data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
My comment was more self-depricating than aimed at anyone. I feel like I'm the only one not getting it from the episodes themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by [ETM]
It is subtle, for sure, so I don't think you should feel like you're the only one not getting it. But most of your questions were addressed, albeit quickly, in previous episodes. I have the distinct advantage of having read the first novel, so it's hard for me to know whether the show is doing a good enough job on its own because the data is already there for me, so I don't bother looking for it. I will say that, even though it's looked down upon, kicking the series off with a narrator giving details of the history of this world would have been beneficial to anyone who hasn't read the novel. It would have cleared up a lot of initial confusion.
Not at all, I've seen many similar comments. Some hardcore fans hate it, even more love it, others range from meh to omg...Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
But I've been thinking about this - I love the feeling of being thrown into the middle of a story because that's what the story is: the kingdoms od Westeros are at a turning point - the old world, the one that built the Wall, has been gone for thousands of years... dragons and other supernatural beings have long gone into bedtime stories and legends, and the men have turned to politics, intrigue and decadence. The Watch on the Wall is but a handful of conscripts lead by a few good men, running out of resources and fading out of everyone's mind. I doubt anyone but wide-eyed kids considers them more than a ceremonial function left over from the old times. But everything points to the old world coming back, with a vengeance. The White Walkers, the dragons (I have a feeling that Dany's eggs are not really petrified) etc. The politics and war are amusing to watch, but it's what's coming (personified in the ominous Stark motto) that really adds to the atmosphere and promises truly great stuff in the future... if the show lasts long enough.
Exactly. I think of The Fellowship of the Ring and how it quickly introduced you to the history. The first episode could have been half-dedicated to a quick re-telling of the war and events leading up to this and it would have been OK. I believe they genuinely just wanted to toss you into this and make the history be like history, written down and for the drama on screen to be the new events only. But, that does little for the uninitiated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa Fan
As someone who has not read the books nor read anything about it online, I didn't get which sea until the third episode but it did help that I just barely watched all 3 episodes in a row. I got it because on the third episode was when I paid attention to the map in the opening theme and that's where I understood the geography compared to what people in the show were saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders
Also I just have to say I had like 10-12 people all say this show had a lot of boobs, it was even said earlier in this thread, so I was expecting Spartacus level of boobs. I have since found that most likely all 10-12 of these people have not watched Spartacus. It was actually quite mild compared to pretty much everything else people say has "a lot of boobs".
I'm actually relieved at the overall lack of boobs. If I had to try and keep up with this stuff while there were boobs on screen, all hope would be lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdmango
An actress baring her boobs is like an actress bursting into tears-- used judiciously it can be very effective, but used all the time it gets really annoying fast.
Okay, I just caught up. This was the first episode where I didn't feel like I was doing homework but was actually sort of interested. I think that this show will make a big mistake if it holds too closely to the books-- what worked well in the books often feels awkward and forced on the show.
By the way, that scene with the drunken king was very well written and acted. I feel like I got to know him better in this episode than in reading the entire book.