I'm going to simply agree to disagree with all of this.
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I'm going to simply agree to disagree with all of this.
Totally agree with this. And I think this is part of the reason why they get so many things wrong. Elevators, In game economy, upgrades, no item inventory.... you can't consider ME an RPG at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
Or, the ME games would probably be better if they were more like Star Trek, with no to very little actual action. Why do we need to shoot stuff in a game?
There are threats that need to be dealt with. It's essentially Star Wars without lightsabersQuote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
I never got why you were so bent about whether or not the "ME" games can be classified as "true RPGS" (whatever that means - there are so many different types of RPG's out there).
I don't care what genre a game can be tucked into. If I like it, I like it.
I'm arguing they keep stripping things out of the first game that dilutes the classification of RPG. So you can customize your characters look, big deal...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
Ehhh...I'd argue that the RPG elements remaining in 2 (and I imagine 3) are more "true RPG" than like 99% of the JRPGs and even western style RPG video games out there.
Having decisions you make directly affect the story, characters and outcome feels more like I'm playing the role than just building up my stats while I am directed through a completely pre-determined story that I have no control over at all.
I see what you're getting at, Duke, I just can't agree because I think that view is, in itself, restrictive towards RPG games.
Hell, something like "Dark Souls" is considered an RPG, but I found while playing it that it was much more of a loot-based action game.
And I do completely agree with you that the gameplay in the "Mass Effect" games is lacking (though I argue that "ME2" is a huge improvement over the first game in just about every way). But it's one of the rare occurrences where the story itself kept me hooked.
I cannot overstate how intriguing I find the story and characters in the "Mass Effect" universe. I mean, there's an alien race comprised of hot blue females that are culturally obligated to bang everything that moves. How can you not love that.
That's actually one of the reasons why I didn't like it. It's forced sexuality, and reeked of juvenile male wish-fulfillment to me. Especially since, from what I saw, it didn't really add to the story - there was no point beyond an excuse for the game to include sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by megladon8
Now I could be wrong, because I never finished ME1 or 2. Is this culture ever addressed in a way that adds relevance? If so, please enlighten me! :)
For instance, I just finished reading a SF book called Quest of the DNA Cowboys. In the book, there are a class of people who's only purpose it is to serve their masters in any way, and this often turns to sexual favors. However, it's not in the store just for an excuse to have lots of sex. It plays an interesting part to the theme of the story, and it even has a great impact on the narrative arc of one of the characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
Yes, their race has a very meaningful purpose.
Won't spoil - you really should play the games, it would explain it better than I could :)
BTW - off topic, but I saw an SF book at the library yesterday that looked really interesting. It's called "The Chronoliths". Heard of it/anything about it?
Why do you need to slay enemies in Dark Souls?Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Davis
Myeh, even in the movies know it seems they're going for the big war angle each and every time when some of the TV episodes had some wonderfully dramatic angles sans overt action.
The Mass Effect games are really doing it about as right as this kind of thing can be done right now. Sure, they could have been point and click adventures, but who exactly are we kidding here? Some time ago they released that Steam game which was an indication of where games might be headed, but games aren't yet at the point where they can compete with the best of dramatic movies. In fact, the gap is still gigantic and perhaps it's for the best that that gap is never actually closed if you catch my drift. But we need forward momentum too! And big villains seem to provide that and you can't talk big villains to death.:)
This is what keeps me going. The scope and scale of the universe they first planned out for ME1, and carrying it over to a trilogy all within a 5 year period is impressive. And actually, I'd argue against Jafe, that's a fantastic way for a story to be told opposed to film. A trilogy in film would take 10 years to develop and trilogy in gaming takes 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by megladon8
I started playing ME3 and just made it to the Citadel. It plays and feels exactly like Mass Effect to me. Not sure what you guys are talking about with lack of dialogue trees I've only played a couple hours and I've had at least 50 of them.
I also played through Alan Wake: American Nightmare last night and I really enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun with the original game and it's DLC and I was worried about the talk of them focusing on action in this downloadable game but I didn't find it to be any more action-y then the original. It was on the short side especially since you're going through the same enviroments multiple times but still a worthwhile play if you dug the original.
Finished Demons' Souls. Good game. Don't like it enough to play through it multiple times, though.
I've played through a few more hours of Mass Effect 3 and it gets way better. The storyline is just what we asked for, there's multiple stories going on, and all the characters are interesting. The scanning system is nice, and when you add in the Reaper attack, it gets pretty intense instead of scanning system after system. So there's a significant improvement.
Could not agree more with D_Davis. You nailed everything perfectly.
There was a bunch of stuff about Bioware that bugged me (linear, rails driven games, juvenile "romance"), but watching the Jaffe video a couple of weeks ago kinda pushed me over the edge.
I'm keeping my SWTOR subscription, but I've gone from being a diehard Bioware fanboy (Baldur's Gate, KOTOR) to really kinda hating them. :lol:
What annoys me most is they've fallen in love with their own process. They ended up shoveling heals of story, romance, and NPC interactions onto their games at the expense of the actual gameplay.
There's a place for story in games, but the touch should be light. John Carmack at Id and Gabe Newell at Valve seem to understand this. I think on a fundamental level, as videogames, Quake and Portal are far superior to anything Bioware could ever hope to do.
You know they're doing something right when I get emotional over a scripted NPC death that plays out over a cutscene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezee E
It helped that the NPC in question is one of my two or three favorites in the trilogy, but the voice acting in it was stellar and the scene itself was impressively directed/created.
"Quake" had a story?
Funny. After all this Bioware hate, I'm going to check out Dragon Age 2 (starting it again, after a false start a few months ago). I'm doing it as part of a game swap. There's this girl Laura Krigger from the Gamers With Jobs podcast, and DA2 is her all time favorite game. She's played it like 10 times. I was talking to her about the game on their forums, and she convinced me to give it a try. Under one condition - she has to play Dark Souls.
Bought Half-Life 2 for five bucks. At first I was like "What's the big deal?" Then Water Hazard happened. Cool game. I'm excited to see where it goes. Never played the original.
Shadow Complex is pretty bland and the writing is horrible. Only about an hour in, so maybe it'll get better. It and Trine 2 are definitely my least favorite xbla games so far.
Beat Limbo and it was beautiful and challenging. Not sure what to do with it now.
I took a minute to get used to Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, but it's really good. I agree with D that it's similar to Dark Souls. The Doppleganger has been the hardest fight for me thus far.
HL2 is a masterpiece. By the time you reach the end, you'll be amazed at the journey. It's the only game I've ever played that really made me feel like I had traveled a great distance. The use of geography in it is superb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idioteque Stalker
Shadow Complex is great, as well. However, I can't remember any writing in it at all. :) It opens up a lot as you progress. Definitely can't judge it on the first hour.
Yeah, Shadow Complex has a weak story but it's a great Metroid type game, if you like those type of games you'll like it through to the end. Just ignore the story and explore the map.
Some guy on Reddit is making a 3D map of Dark Souls.
http://i.imgur.com/Tp4tLh.png
http://imgur.com/a/2nZTo
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by megladon8
One of the few games in history that change the way you approach gameplay as you progress. Also look out for how the sun moves across the sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idioteque Stalker