Video Games...Discuss Them

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Originally Posted by megladon8

I'm surprised by this, Syco. "Heavy Rain" sounded like the kind of game you'd really dig.

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Yeah, Davis said this a little while ago, too, when I was expressing my skepticism. Maybe my tastes have changed, or maybe what I post here presents an obscured picture of what I value in video games. Heavy Rain, though, seems to try to make a movie video game and in doing so misses the point of both mediums. That the movie it tries to make into a video game seems like a bad, cliché-ridden movie doesn't help, but I think the very concept here is somewhat flawed.

I think a couple years ago, I think I may have wanted something like Heavy Rain, but it's now pretty much the antithesis of what I value in games.

So I quit the demo and played some more Bayonetta, which I can't get enough of. Now there's a fucking video game.

I'm looking forward to watching my friend play Heavy Rain, just as I enjoyed watching him play the Metal Gear Solid games.

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Originally Posted by Sycophant

I played the demos of both Heavy Rain and Dante's Inferno over the weekend. Heavy Rain is probably the most annoyiong shit I think I've ever played. Dante's Inferno was boring.

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Why was annoying about it?

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Originally Posted by Scar

Tried the Heavy Rain demo today, and wasn't feeling it.

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Did you play the FBI agent part? Or only the first Detective PI part? The PI part sucks...

The FBI Agent part was what sold me.

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Originally Posted by Dukefrukem

Why was annoying about it?

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So many long, seemingly arbitrary sequences of button-pressing, the majority of which halt the progression of the story just to make you push said buttons (or shake the controller). Story seems cliché and dull (at least from every video I've seen and what was delivered in the demo).

I thought it was stupid too, Sycophant. That damn asthma inhaler bit..

Voice acting seemed rubbish too, which is weird.

I'm blown away by how good the facial animations in "Heavy Rain" are.

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Originally Posted by Winston*

Voice acting seemed rubbish too, which is weird.

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Truly.

As I said before, I don't know if I'd consider Heavy Rain a video game—and I don't think Heavy Rain seem all that great either—but I am intrigued in the exploration of interactive choose-your-own-adventures movies, if only for the cultural investigation of its popularity.

Sadly, it's a limited medium, because there's no way we would ever get one of those that expands beyond the action/thriller/horror genre. A Heavy Rain-like game about a Kore-eda family would be interesting to play, but no one would buy it.

There are things I'm definitely intrigued by. For instance, when one of the characters dies, you continue to play through the game with the other surviving characters, thus never seeing a game over screen because of a death, and also losing out on some of the story.

Stemming from a facebook discussion meg and I were having...

Over x-mas break last year, I played a bunch of CoD5 on my nephew's PS3, and I was shocked by how different the community was. I played for a couple of days before someone was called a fag, or a nigger, or some other disgusting word. I've read claims by some people that the PS3 online community is, in fact, a more mature group, and based upon my limited anecdotal experience I'd say those claims are correct.

I don't ever play online, but I've heard that too. From what I understand, teenagers typically prefer the 360.

There are a lot of idiots on XBL, but again, like I said on FaceBook, the 360 makes muting people very, very easy.

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Originally Posted by number8

I don't ever play online, but I've heard that too. From what I understand, teenagers typically prefer the 360.

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I also tend to notice the racial and sexual hate speech on the 360 coming more from people with southern American accents, and there seemed to be fewer of those people on the PS3, at least when I was playing. I don't know if this is true or not, but I wonder if the the PS3 has skewed more to an "upper-class" or more "educated" demographic, while the 360 may be more "rural," or "Wal-Mart."

I have no idea if this is true, just something I was thinking about.

For what it's worth, I have a 360, but no PS3.

These kinds of things are interesting to me - I remember reading a report by the MIT Media Lab about the kind of stereotyping that goes on when people see where your e-mail is from. In general, people tend to think that users with gmail accounts are more educated than people with AOL or hotmail addresses.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Davis

There are things I'm definitely intrigued by. For instance, when one of the characters dies, you continue to play through the game with the other surviving characters, thus never seeing a game over screen because of a death, and also losing out on some of the story.

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That's certainly the most intriguing part of it. See, this is why it would be so interesting to play a family drama. What if you mess up and the character you're playing dies, and then you switch over to control a different family member, and you have to play through the grief, making sure this one doesn't go into depression? Something like that.

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Originally Posted by number8

That's certainly the most intriguing part of it. See, this is why it would be so interesting to play a family drama. What if you mess up and the character you're playing dies, and then you switch over to control a different family member, and you have to play through the grief, making sure this one doesn't go into depression? Something like that.

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Eh...I've dealt with things like this in real life.

I'd rather not have video games - a purely escapist medium of entertainment, if there ever was one - start to emulate the pains and depression of reality.

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Originally Posted by megladon8

I'd rather not have video games - a purely escapist medium of entertainment, if there ever was one - start to emulate the pains and depression of reality.

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But should video games only be "a purely escapist medium of entertainment?"

Can't we have both?

Some people say the same things about "depressing" films, or books.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Davis

Stemming from a facebook discussion meg and I were having...

Over x-mas break last year, I played a bunch of CoD5 on my nephew's PS3, and I was shocked by how different the community was. I played for a couple of days before someone was called a fag, or a nigger, or some other disgusting word. I've read claims by some people that the PS3 online community is, in fact, a more mature group, and based upon my limited anecdotal experience I'd say those claims are correct.

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On the contrary, I was at a friend's house playing COD4 when it first came out, and within minutes of going online, there was some spanish guy repeating My Dick in your mouth ad nauseum. It was so pathetic, it was actually kinda funny.

I think the main reason you get more assholes on XBL is mainly due to the fact that more people own XBoxes than do PS3s.

On a personal level, meg, I agree with you - I play games largely for escapist reasons. The deepest level I play on is to slightly simulate an RPG-like feel of exploring a new world. I couldn't care less about story in games - I've never once been legitimately intrigued by a video game's narrative. For a good story, I'll turn to a book first, then a movie.

However, there are people out there who do want more from their games in terms of narrative and emotional connection, and I think that games like Heavy Rain might be a step in this direction.

Again, though, if the best a game can do in terms of narrative impact is to poorly emulate another medium - cinema - then the industry is in trouble. Games need to celebrate the things that make them games, the things that make them different than books and films. This is the same argument I have against grouping graphic novels in with traditional prose novels. The two are different, and should be celebrated equally, but separately.

Video games need to find and celebrate their own unique voice and vision, and so on this point I side with Syco regarding Heavy Rain's lame attempt at being an interactive movie.

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Originally Posted by bac0n

On the contrary, I was at a friend's house playing COD4 when it first came out, and within minutes of going online, there was some spanish guy repeating My Dick in your mouth ad nauseum. It was so pathetic, it was actually kinda funny.

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Heh....

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Originally Posted by Daniel Davis

I don't know if this is true or not, but I wonder if the the PS3 has skewed more to an "upper-class" or more "educated" demographic, while the 360 may be more "rural," or "Wal-Mart."

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I don't mean this quite the way it came out. I simply wonder of there is a perceived stereotype between the two, like there is with gmail/AOL email accounts? And if so, is this stereotype unfounded? Do I notice it simply because more people on XBL have microphones? Or is there something more to it? Are people in certain regions more apt to own and use a certain console?

I completely understand people who want more from the narratives in their games, and I would too. Like you, D, I'm pretty much completely uninterested in the stories in video games - this may be why stuff like JRPGs have never really done it for me, since the epic, interconnecting storylines often take precedence over interesting gameplay.

The fact is, games are still a very, very new medium. And it's only really been about 30 years (give or take) that they've even attempted to tell stories with them. Stuff like "Pong" and "Pac-Man" was never narrative-minded.

I think the next 10-15 years will be pivotal for video games, not only in terms of the technology but also in companies spending more time exploring the way games can tell stories in their own way. Like you and Syco were saying, though "Heavy Rain" is trying to attempt storytelling from a different angle, it's still just trying to emulate the experience of a movie.

Funny enough, I'm currently playing through "Half Life 2" again. Now THIS is a game that knows how to tell its story. You never stop to watch some overly-expository cinematic, or poorly scripted quick time events. The story and the gameplay form a symbiotic relationship - THIS is where I hope game companies will venture more towards. So far it seems only VALVe and a very small handful of others have understood how very effective this technique is.

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Originally Posted by megladon8

I'd rather not have video games - a purely escapist medium of entertainment, if there ever was one - start to emulate the pains and depression of reality.

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This is a longstanding argument for the rejection of film as art too ("When I go see a movie, I want to escape reality and be entertained, not see real people problems!") and I find saying the same to video games to be no more or no less dismissive.

Many people have touted video games as an artform of the new era, but I find it so ridiculous to say such a thing if the medium is limited to only a number of storytelling genres. I want to see games that challenge and affect its players intellectually and emotionally in a variety of manners.

If someone can make a compelling (non-sport) video game without any weapons, aliens, monsters, gangsters or any of that, I am absolutely interested.

By the way, I just realized, but doesn't in Heavy Rain, you play a father losing his son?

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Originally Posted by number8

This is a longstanding argument for the rejection of film as art too ("When I go see a movie, I want to escape reality and be entertained, not see real people problems!") and I find saying the same to video games to be no more or no less dismissive.

Many people have touted video games as an artform of the new era, but I find it so ridiculous to say such a thing if the medium is limited to only a number of storytelling genres. I want to see games that challenge and affect its players intellectually and emotionally in a variety of manners.

If someone can make a compelling (non-sport) video game without any weapons, aliens, monsters, gangsters or any of that, I am absolutely interested.

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I'd agree, but with video games and that ever-looming idea of "virtual reality" that I'm sure will happen at some point, are these really the things you'd want to experience as if you were there?

A film or a book still has a level of detachment. A video game calls you into the actual role. At the point of virtual reality it could be so real you'd really think you were there, experiencing those things.

I personally would have no interest at all in experiencing something like Funny Games as a hyper-realistic video game.

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Originally Posted by megladon8

I personally would have no interest at all in experiencing something like Funny Games as a hyper-realistic video game.

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I would. Not as a regular thing, but as a one-time experience something like that would be kind of cool.

Reminds me of a board game called Train.

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Show Spoiler

The game is a pretty simple exercise in "worker" placement and hand management. As players, you are trying to get people onto a train as efficiently as possible. The winner is the person who gets the most people on the train. However, at the end of the game you reveal the train's destination - a Nazi Concentration camp. So the winner is actually the person who sent the most Jews to their death.

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I wouldn't want to play something like that all the time, but it does show that through some careful manipulation something like a board game can really have an impact.

I'd like to see something like this in a video game.