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10-22-2012, 03:37 AM
EyesWideOpen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acapelli

should've been the final words on this stupid argument

I assumed people would have learned by now but I guess I was mistaken.
10-22-2012, 03:45 AM
Spinal

All I know is that if I have to listen to another conversation about which person would be in which Hogwart's House, I'm gonna punch somebody.
10-22-2012, 03:53 AM
MadMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinal

All I know is that if I have to listen to another conversation about which person would be in which Hogwart's House, I'm gonna punch somebody.

Hufflepuff FTW! *Runs like hell*
10-22-2012, 03:54 AM
Winston*
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acapelli

wish more people recognized how good winston's posts were on the previous page

should've been the final words on this stupid argument

:)

Currently attempting to write a long essay on Mervyn Peake
1. An author I first read as a young adult.
2. One of the great literary geniuses of the 20th Century.
10-22-2012, 03:58 AM
number8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinal

All I know is that if I have to listen to another conversation about which person would be in which Hogwart's House, I'm gonna punch somebody.

Yo mama so fat, the sorting hat put her in all four houses.
10-22-2012, 04:18 AM
Sycophant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acapelli

wish more people recognized how good winston's posts were on the previous page

should've been the final words on this stupid argument

They were the best. I was on a train when I read them and I laughed out loud and agreed most strongly.
10-22-2012, 05:19 AM
Dead & Messed Up

I kinda feel bad for Hufflepuff. Always assumed that was the House of Total Mediocrity. Where the students listen to Matchbox 20 and too often default to pancakes for dinner.
10-22-2012, 05:24 AM
Winston*

The Hogwarts peeps don't really hold much of a moral high ground against Voldemort when their school already practices segregation.
10-22-2012, 05:33 AM
Dead & Messed Up

All students are equal. Some are just more equal than others.

...oh wait, that's from a book for kids. Forget I mentioned it. Useless.
10-22-2012, 05:44 AM
MadMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead & Messed Up

I kinda feel bad for Hufflepuff. Always assumed that was the House of Total Mediocrity. Where the students listen to Matchbox 20 and too often default to pancakes for dinner.

Those quizzes that decide which house you would end up in, suck, btw. Too many different answers. They might as well be those political quizzes one takes to find out which candidate they most identify with.
10-22-2012, 05:56 AM
Qrazy

My Big Beat electronic mix is up.

http://www.mixcloud.com/DJQrazy/big-...cing-feet-mix/
10-22-2012, 06:12 AM
Irish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acapelli

should've been the final words on this stupid argument

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyesWideOpen

I assumed people would have learned by now but I guess I was mistaken.

Wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead & Messed Up

All students are equal. Some are just more equal than others.

...oh wait, that's from a book for kids. Forget I mentioned it. Useless.

Someone responsible for your education failed you on a very deep level if you actually think Animal Farm, an anti-Soviet political allegory, was written for children.
10-22-2012, 06:41 AM
Dead & Messed Up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brude

Someone responsible for your education failed you on a very deep level if you actually think Animal Farm, an anti-Soviet political allegory, was written for children.

It might've been intended for adults, but it was purposefully written for most ages, with an image system that appeals to the younger set and vocabulary that, apart from a couple of key Russian terms (e.g. comrade), is relatively simple. Most teachers place it somewhere between grades 5 and 8 in terms of its readability, which fits snugly into the "young adult" market. In truth, it's the book's unassuming presentation and accessibility that makes it such an exemplary form of allegory. Similar in a way to how you can read Gulliver's Travels to a child, and they can appreciate its whimsy and humor and imagination, and if they come to it as an adult, they can appreciate it a whole lot more.
10-22-2012, 06:42 AM
Watashi

Is Huck Finn considered a kid's book? That's some thematic shit right there.
10-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Kurosawa Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watashi

Is Huck Finn considered a kid's book? That's some thematic shit right there.

Tom Sawyer would definitely fall under that category.
10-22-2012, 01:09 PM
number8

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Maus.jpg

Again, I ask.

Quote:

What's considered YA anyway? Aren't LOTR, Brave New World and Lord of the Flies considered teen reading? Also, what is not appropriate in PKD shorts for teens?

And why aren't we similarly infantilizing the simplified ideas and prose in Dan Brown or James Patterson novels?
10-22-2012, 01:20 PM
Mara

Quote:

Originally Posted by number8

Ehh, the Narnia books are written in VERY simplistic, almost fairy tale-like prose. Which is why I've never been a Lewis fan.

The prose is certainly child-like, but I would argue that it presents and examines some very complex ideas.

I like Lewis' adult fiction and non-fiction better, but I'll always have a soft spot for Narnia.

Not the films. Those were pretty silly.

As for picture books, it has been practically months since I extolled Maurice Sendak (whose art I am sporting in my avatar) but I would argue that his children's books are as thought-provoking and intellectually valuable as they are beautiful.
10-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Irish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead & Messed Up

It might've been intended for adults, but it was purposefully written for most ages, with an image system that appeals to the younger set and vocabulary that, apart from a couple of key Russian terms (e.g. comrade), is relatively simple. Most teachers place it somewhere between grades 5 and 8 in terms of its readability, which fits snugly into the "young adult" market. In truth, it's the book's unassuming presentation and accessibility that makes it such an exemplary form of allegory. Similar in a way to how you can read Gulliver's Travels to a child, and they can appreciate its whimsy and humor and imagination, and if they come to it as an adult, they can appreciate it a whole lot more.

There's a few different reasons why Animal Farm utilitizes the language it does, and none of them have anything to do with children.

One, it's part of the satire. Using simpler language to describe Soviet politics and framing the story as a fairy tale makes Stalin appear more foolish. Two, Orwell had pointed political goals. This book was published at the end of WWII and contrary to today, not everyone had a college or even high school education. Simpler language makes the book's contents more accessible to a larger group of people, at all education levels. Three, since you can't travel 1,000 miles in Europe without tripping over a half dozen languages, clear, direct prose allows for easier translation. The novel was translated into multiple languages almost directly after its UK publication.

I think you (and 8) are making the mistake of thinking that, because a work is taught in modern American highschools, that somehow transforms it into a work for younger readers, solely based on the accessibility of its prose.

In my highschool we read A Farewell to Arms, Caesar's Gallic Wars, Romeo and Juliet, Babbit, Gargantua and Pantagruel, The Great Gatsby, and Sartre's The Wall.

Are you next going to argue those are all YA works?
10-22-2012, 02:18 PM
Mr. McGibblets

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Davis

Sometimes quality and success do match up - I'll grant that to A Game of Thrones, even though I don't like the books.

I'm surprised by this mention. The SoIaF books have some of the worst prose I've ever read, focusing obsessively on patterns and repetition and with over a dozen characters who all think with one voice.
10-22-2012, 02:21 PM
ledfloyd

young adult fiction sucks. except for the young adult fiction that doesn't suck which actually isn't young adult fiction BECAUSE it doesn't suck, and young adult fiction sucks.

am i getting the gist here?
10-22-2012, 02:32 PM
Mara

I'm actually working on a young adult novel.

I hope it doesn't suck.

It might, though.
10-22-2012, 03:20 PM
number8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brude

Are you next going to argue those are all YA works?

The other way around. I'm arguing that trying to discern the author's intent versus ability in regards to their book being considered appropriate for a younger age is a fool's errand. Especially when a lot of people are quick to deem something YA and market it as such just because it has teenage protagonists, even though the author supposedly never intended them as such.

A bunch of Stephen King's stories, for example, have been classified as YA. Any of us feel like judging adults reading them as being infantile?

Many authors write simplistically because that's just their style. Give a 13 year old an Elmore Leonard novel, see if they can't make heads or tails of it.
10-22-2012, 03:31 PM
Fezzik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brude

@Fezzik [I]
It will never contain a new thought or take your kind in a different direction or change the way you look at the world. The most it will do, at the end, is make you feel good and placate you. There's nothing terribly wrong with that, again, as a one off event. But I think it has a detrimental effect, both on the individual level and on the culture long term, if that's the limit of your media consumption.

I learned to cook (and learned to LOVE it) because of Ratatouille. I got back into theatre again after watching Beauty and the Beast (for the umpteenth time) last year.

Wall-E re-affirmed my love for art. Period. And re-ignited my desire to be around PEOPLE again, not just interact with them from behind a computer.

So, I disagree with your assessment, obviously.
10-22-2012, 03:44 PM
D_Davis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. McGibblets

I'm surprised by this mention. The SoIaF books have some of the worst prose I've ever read, focusing obsessively on patterns and repetition and with over a dozen characters who all think with one voice.

Maybe so, I was mainly assuming since so many of my constant-reader friends love them for form and function.

It's just not my kind of fantasy - I like things a bit more weird and otherworldly.
10-22-2012, 03:47 PM
D_Davis

I love how many pages of discussion your article generated, Wats.

Well done! Superb trolling. A++++. Would read again. Dream of seller.