Directors Consensus - Samuel Fuller

[dreamdead]

Alrighty, so we're on to week 13 of the consensus. PLEASE review the rules and information contained in the main thread:


Results and Rules
(http://match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=426)

Week Thirteen: Samuel Fuller
http://deepseven.com/images/H144.bmp

[dreamdead]

The Steel Helmet -- 8.5
Pickup on South Street -- 8.5
Shock Corridor -- 9
The Naked Kiss -- 6
The Big Red One -- 9.5

[Boner M]

The Steel Helmet - 6.5
Pickup on South Street - 8.5
Forty Guns - 7
Shock Corridor - 8
The Naked Kiss - 6.5
The Big Red One - 9
White Dog - 8.5

All the lower-rated ones need second viewings, I think. Man, I'd kill to see Park Row.

[SirNewt]

The Steel Helmet - 7

[Raiders]

I Shot Jesse James (1949) - 9.0
Fixed Bayonets! (1951) - 8.0
The Steel Helmet (1951) - 8.5
Park Row (1952) - 10.0
Pickup on South Street (1953) - 9.5
House of Bamboo (1955) - 7.0
Forty Guns (1957) - 8.5
Shock Corridor (1963) - 10.0
The Naked Kiss (1964) - 9.5
The Big Red One (1980) - 9.5
White Dog (1982) - 10.0

[Melville]

Shock Corridor - 8
The Naked Kiss - 9

[Mysterious Dude]

Pickup on South Street - 9.0
Shock Corridor - 6.0
The Naked Kiss - 6.0

[Philosophe_rouge]

Shock Corridor 9

[Grouchy]

The Big Red One - 9

I started watching White Dog on my school's library once, but the DVD was a VHS transfer and it looked like ass. And I had class anyway, I think.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

Pickup on SOuth Street - 7.5
Run of the Arrow - 5.5
Shock Corridor - 8.5
The Naked Kiss - 9

[Qrazy]

I Shot Jesse James -- 7
The Steel Helmet -- 7.5
Pickup on South Street -- 9
Shock Corridor -- 6.5
The Naked Kiss -- 6
The Big Red One -- 8

[Ezee E]

Plan on seeing The Big Red One and Shock Corridor this week.

Pickup on South Street is great though.

[Qrazy]

Pickup on South Street is great though.

Yeah, it really is.

[Eleven]

I Shot Jesse James - 8
The Baron of Arizona - 8
Fixed Bayonets! - 7
The Steel Helmet - 8.5
Pickup on South Street - 9.5
Run of the Arrow - 6.5
Underworld USA - 8
Shock Corridor - 8
The Naked Kiss - 9
White Dog - 8.5

[Derek]

I Shot Jesse James - 8.0
The Steel Helmet - 6.5
Park Row - 7.5
Pickup on South Street - 9.0
Forty Guns - 7.0
Underworld U.S.A. - 8.0
Shock Corridor - 8.5
The Naked Kiss - 6.5
The Big Red One - only seen shorter cut, so I'll hold off rating
White Dog - 8.5

[Raiders]

I really must see Underworld USA. It is just about the only remaining Fuller film I am really anxious to see. Of course, I plan to eventually see them all, but this one seems like the surest bet on being another masterful film.

[Derek]

I really must see Underworld USA. It is just about the only remaining Fuller film I am really anxious to see. Of course, I plan to eventually see them all, but this one seems like the surest bet on being another masterful film.

It's great and I have no doubt you'll love it. TCM played it a couple months ago, so keep your eye out for another showing there.

[Duncan]

The Steel Helmet - 7.5
Pickup on South Street - 4.0
The Big Red One - 8.0

[Bosco B Thug]

Pickup on South Street - 7.5/10
Shock Corridor - 8/10
The Big Red One - 8.5/10

[soitgoes...]

I Shot Jesse James (1949) - 9.0
Fixed Bayonets! (1951) - 6.0
The Steel Helmet (1951) - 6.5
Park Row (1952) - 8.5
Pickup on South Street (1953) - 9.0
Hell and High Water (1954) - 5.0
Forty Guns (1957) - 7.5
Verboten! (1959) - 3.0
Shock Corridor (1963) - 9.0
The Naked Kiss (1964) - 5.0
The Big Red One (1980) - 8.5

He always seems to pop out something great, so that keeps me coming back to him again and again.

[Yxklyx]

I Shot Jesse James - 8
The Steel Helmet - 8
Fixed Bayonets! - 5
Pickup on South Street - 7
Forty Guns - 8
Shock Corridor - 5
The Naked Kiss - 6
The Big Red One - 7

[Spinal]

Shock Corridor - 5

[Yxklyx]

The Big Red One - only seen shorter cut, so I'll hold off rating


I've only seen the longer cut. I think I'd like the shorter cut more - as long as the great scenes are still there.

[BirdsAteMyFace]

Shock Corridor - 4

[baby doll]

Pickup on South Street (1953) [9]
Shock Corridor (1963) [8]
The Naked Kiss (1964) [7]

I need to rewatch The Big Red One before giving it a grade.

[Qrazy]

Shock Corridor (1963) [8]
The Naked Kiss (1964) [7]


Jigga wa? Didn't you give these 2's and 3's on RT back in the day? I thought I remembered seeing that in your sig... rewatch or?

[baby doll]

Jigga wa? Didn't you give these 2's and 3's on RT back in the day? I thought I remembered seeing that in your sig... rewatch or?Rewatch on Shock Corridor, but I've only seen The Naked Kiss the once and probably underestimated it as well.

[Ezee E]

Pickup on South Street - 9.5
Shock Corridor - 5

[Raiders]

Shock Corridor - 5

Another one bites the dust.

[Ezee E]

Another one bites the dust.
The scores for htat one are very consistent. They either seem to really like it (8-9) range or think of it as completely meh.

I really can't find any good or bad in it.

[Raiders]

I really can't find any good or bad in it.

Actually, I assumed most middling ratings were similar to Spinal's feelings, which if I remember correctly were favorable on the film's intent and ideas and not so hot on its pulpy, over-the-top delivery. It actually seems to me a pretty hard film to be completely "meh" about.

[Ezee E]

Actually, I assumed most middling ratings were similar to Spinal's feelings, which if I remember correctly were favorable on the film's intent and ideas and not so hot on its pulpy, over-the-top delivery. It actually seems to me a pretty hard film to be completely "meh" about.
I found a way.

[Ezee E]

Unfortunately I'm having to break up The Big Red One.

but thus far:
:eek:

[Qrazy]

Someone watch these already so I know whether or not they're worth my time.

# Street of No Return (1989)
# Voleurs de la nuit, Les (1984)
... aka Thieves After Dark
# Shark! (1969)
# The Meanest Men in the West (1967) (TV)
# Merrill's Marauders (1962)
# The Crimson Kimono (1959)
# China Gate (1957)

[balmakboor]

The Big Red One - only seen shorter cut, so I'll hold off rating.

Isn't the short one the most appropriate one to rate? I'm always a bit suspicious when a critic takes it upon himself to assemble a "better" cut of a film. (A critic's cut?) I felt the same about the new cut of Touch of Evil.

(I do think the critic's cuts of both films are fantastic though.)

[Duncan]

Isn't the short one the most appropriate one to rate? I'm always a bit suspicious when a critic takes it upon himself to assemble a "better" cut of a film. (A critic's cut?) I felt the same about the new cut of Touch of Evil.

(I do think the critic's cuts of both films are fantastic though.) I think with the Touch of Evil one there were about 50 pages of Welles' personal notes to work from. Don't know the case here.

[balmakboor]

I think with the Touch of Evil one there were about 50 pages of Welles' personal notes to work from. Don't know the case here.

I know. It sort of makes it a posthumus director/critic cut. Still, without Welles' involvement, it seems a bit spurious to me. I jot down notes all the time and then ignore them -- or at least greatly modify them -- while working through the project. I imagine Welles did the same. I've never worried about it much though because the new cut turned out great.

[Philosophe_rouge]

I know. It sort of makes it a posthumus director/critic cut. Still, without Welles' involvement, it seems a bit spurious to me. I jot down notes all the time and then ignore them -- or at least greatly modify them -- while working through the project. I imagine Welles did the same. I've never worried about it much though because the new cut turned out great.
In Welles case though, he had seen the edit the studios had made then proceeded to write the notes explaining the mentality behind his choices and why they should have kept his edit of the film.

[Raiders]

Isn't the short one the most appropriate one to rate? I'm always a bit suspicious when a critic takes it upon himself to assemble a "better" cut of a film. (A critic's cut?) I felt the same about the new cut of Touch of Evil.

(I do think the critic's cuts of both films are fantastic though.)

Wait, so you think a studio's hacking of the film is a more honest version than one Richard Schickel (a film author and DGA-card-holding-documentarian) attempted to reconstruct based on footage shot by Fuller and Fuller's shooting script? Neither is what Fuller himself likely would have released, but I can only assume Schickel's is closer. In either case, I consider it the better of the two.

[Raiders]

And hey, where the heck are iosos' and trans' votes? I know both are moderate fans of the man. I demand all get involved in this most important of weeks.

[Derek]

Wait, so you think a studio's hacking of the film is a more honest version than one Richard Schickel (a film author and DGA-card-holding-documentarian) attempted to reconstruct based on footage shot by Fuller and Fuller's shooting script? Neither is what Fuller himself likely would have released, but I can only assume Schickel's is closer. In either case, I consider it the better of the two.

My point exactly. I'm withholding a rating because 1) it was a studio butchered version, 2) critics and scholars have almost unanimously proclaimed the reconstruction to be the definitive version and 3) I saw it in Pan & Scan since I caught it on tv when it was otherwise unavailable. But if you want a rating, it's 6.0 for now.

[dreamdead]

K. I'll add Derek's rating shortly. I'll close this in the evening and get results up then, though I don't know how to do Fuller's overall rating so I might ask for help from someone for that part...

[balmakboor]

Wait, so you think a studio's hacking of the film is a more honest version than one Richard Schickel (a film author and DGA-card-holding-documentarian) attempted to reconstruct based on footage shot by Fuller and Fuller's shooting script? Neither is what Fuller himself likely would have released, but I can only assume Schickel's is closer. In either case, I consider it the better of the two.

I agree that the Schickel cut is terrific. I've never seen the shorter version and know nothing about its history. If it is a studio hacking then I guess we don't really have a true Fuller cut and may as well go with the better one that is also truer to Fuller's shooting script.

[Sven]

Pickup on South Street - 7.5
House of Bamboo - 7
Shock Corridor - 10
The Big Red One - 8.5
White Dog - 7.5

I have his first three from Eclipse, but like I have time to watch anything these days. A few of those ratings are ancient.

[Raiders]

K. I'll add Derek's rating shortly.

:|

[Derek]

:|

Yeah, please don't since I said I'm withholding an official rating.

[Ezee E]

I only take the Directors Result from the Qualified Films. If you need more help, just PM me.

[Qrazy]

Pickup on South Street - 4.0


Why?

[Qrazy]

I only take the Directors Result from the Qualified Films. If you need more help, just PM me.

Added I Shot Jesse James.

[Derek]

Added I Shot Jesse James.

How good is John Ireland? Such an underappreciated actor and while I'm sure he's okay with it, it'd be nice if he was remembered more for his great acting talents than his large member.

[Duncan]

Why?Here. (http://matchcut.org/viewtopic.php?t=9712)

[Qrazy]

Here. (http://matchcut.org/viewtopic.php?t=9712)

Ah, well I just thought Fuller was at his formal peak both here and I guess in The Big Red One. But it's good to know you probably side with me on the Ford/Renoir argument in the film discussion thread (I'm guessing?).

[Qrazy]

How good is John Ireland? Such an underappreciated actor and while I'm sure he's okay with it, it'd be nice if he was remembered more for his great acting talents than his large member.

Yeah, he was very good. The film really rides on his performance. I found I actually appreciated The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford more after watching this film... not because this one was bad or anything... but just because of the differing approaches to the telling of the story and character psychologies.

[Duncan]

Ah, well I just thought Fuller was at his formal peak both here and I guess in The Big Red One. But it's good to know you probably side with me on the Ford/Renoir argument in the film discussion thread (I'm guessing?).
To be honest, I've been so busy lately that I have been only cursorily skimming much of the discussion here. But from what I read I think you were maybe oversimplifying Ford statements and work. In Stagecoach, for example, there's this scene near the beginning where a couple of white people (I forget who...not John Wayne) are talking in the foreground. They exit the frame and revealed behind them are two aboriginals sitting against a building. I think they're begging. I forget. Anyway, it's not as pointed as something like the immigrant beggar woman in Code Unknown, but Ford certainly doesn't have to linger on that otherwise empty frame. It's at least an acknowledgment of their marginalized presence. I haven't really visited his work in a while so I can't give much of a defense beyond that.

Don't think I read the part where Renoir came in.

[Qrazy]

To be honest, I've been so busy lately that I have been only cursorily skimming much of the discussion here. But from what I read I think you were maybe oversimplifying Ford statements and work. In Stagecoach, for example, there's this scene near the beginning where a couple of white people (I forget who...not John Wayne) are talking in the foreground. They exit the frame and revealed behind them are two aboriginals sitting against a building. I think they're begging. I forget. Anyway, it's not as pointed as something like the immigrant beggar woman in Code Unknown, but Ford certainly doesn't have to linger on that otherwise empty frame. It's at least an acknowledgment of their marginalized presence. I haven't really visited his work in a while so I can't give much of a defense beyond that.

Don't think I read the part where Renoir came in.

Yeah... next time don't skim. I was referring to whether or not you agree with the sexist issues I raised (primarily in relation to Renoir's A Day in the Country) but also other cases where the woman is exposed to unwanted sexual advances and those advances turn out to be 'just what she needed'. Rouge brought The Quiet Man (which I haven't seen) into the discussion so that's how Ford got brought in.

[dreamdead]

RESULTS

1. White Dog – 8.6 (5)
2. The Big Red One - 8.55 (10)
3. I Shot Jesse James - 8.4 (5)
4. Pickup on South Street - 8.27 (15)
5. Forty Guns - 7.6 (5)
6. Shock Corridor 7.53 (18)
7. The Steel Helmet - 7.45 (10)
8. The Naked Kiss - 7.13 (12)
9. Fixed Bayonets! – 6.5 (4)
= 7.78

Did not qualify:
Park Row – 8.667 (3)
Underworld U.S.A. – 8 (2)
The Baron of Arizona – 8 (1)
House of Bamboo – 7 (2)
Run of the Arrow – 6 (2)
Hell and High Water – 5 (1)
Verboten! – 3 (1)

Biggest Watcher: soitgoes
Biggest Fan: Raiders
Biggest Hater: BirdsAteMyFace

[Duncan]

It's my party and I'll skim if I want to.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Happens pretty frequently.