Cowboy Bebop (Netflix, 2021)

[Skitch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq2N-9EmedA

So far so good!

[StuSmallz]

Well, it certainly looks nearly identical to the anime so far, but so what? I mean, the original was already as close as possible to being perfect in capturing that particular story, so what's the point in just doing a live-action trace job? I mean, even Wantanabe himself couldn't come close to recapturing the same magic with the movie, so I definitely can't get very excited for this one; I'd much rather they just use the energy for a new story, instead of Hollywood just taking yet another exploitable IP, and whoring it out just like the rest.

[Skitch]

I can't disagree with you if that's what you want. It just could be a whole lot worse. Whitewashed, American boy band theme song...you know the drill...

[Idioteque Stalker]

I’m with Stu on this. It’s unclear to me if/how this is different than the Disney live action remakes.

[Skitch]

I cannot argue.

[[ETM]]

I don't think it will be identical at all. The opening is iconic, and there are shots that are so perfect in several episodes that I'm sure most would riot if they were omitted but it seems that they will change things up a bit throughout.

[StuSmallz]

;645752']I don't think it will be identical at all. The opening is iconic, and there are shots that are so perfect in several episodes that I'm sure most would riot if they were omitted but it seems that they will change things up a bit throughout.It's obviously not going to be 100% "identical" to the original, but it sure looks as close as possible from this video:


https://youtu.be/mZNGW-sMx_U

I mean, they're supposed to be doing ten episodes in total for this remake, and assuming this video is accurate, it looks like they'll be doing "Asteroid Blues", "Gateway Shuffle", "Ballad Of Fallen Angels", "Jupiter Jazz", "Mushroom Samba", "Pierrot le Fou", "Boogie Woogie Feng Shui", "Cowboy Funk", and "Brain Scratch". And, I have to assume that they'll be doing "The Real Folk Blues" for the finale, so that's all ten episodes right there. Plus, every ep is supposed to be a full hour long, so as far as I can guess, that means they're either going to cram two eps of the anime together into a multi-part episode (and they're just keeping the identities of the other eps they're adapting a secret at the moment), or they're just going to pad out the original stories out to be twice as long, so again I must ask, what on Mars is the point? Why spend this much time and energy creating something that will never, ever be as good as what it's remaking?

[Skitch]

Because a great many people will never watch an animated show?

[StuSmallz]

Because a great many people will never watch an animated show?That's their loss, though, and I see little reason why I should be interested in what will almost certainly be an inferior rehash just so Netflix can pander to some aniphobes, when that time and energy could go to something more worthwhile instead.

[DFA1979]

The lack of Ed probably means they are saving them for later or whatever, I hope. If they get rid of that character I'm gonna be pretty mad.

[Skitch]

The lack of Ed probably means they are saving them for later or whatever, I hope. If they get rid of that character I'm gonna be pretty mad.

I agree with everything said. There was a tiny slice of the trailer that made me think it was a hint to Ed...0:48 seconds.

Google image "cowboy bebop ed remote", theres a bunch of pictures of controllers and stuff.

[StuSmallz]

No idea what the fuck is this is supposed to be exactly, but whatever:


https://youtu.be/_JDWm1f6-M0

[StuSmallz]

Netflix's Cowboy Bebop Just Can't Move on From "Tank" (https://gizmodo.com/netflixs-cowboy-bebop-just-cant-move-on-from-tank-1847915144)

[Dukefrukem]

No idea what the fuck is this is supposed to be exactly, but whatever:


https://youtu.be/_JDWm1f6-M0

Why did they film it like a 70s action TV show and make it with the same frames as a comic book and have dialog from an Edgar Wright movie?

[StuSmallz]

Why did they film it like a 70s action TV show and make it with the same frames as a comic book and have dialog from an Edgar Wright movie?Because Netflix apparently has little idea how to market this thing besides forcing it to be "hip", like actually having Spike say "What in the actual fuck?" here:


https://youtu.be/Z6SSISUJR2k

[StuSmallz]

Netflix's Cowboy Bebop Needs Some Damn Color (https://kotaku.com/netflixs-cowboy-bebop-live-action-series-needs-some-dam-1848047158)

[StuSmallz]

Netflix’s Cowboy Bebop is a bloodless substitute for the real thing (https://www.avclub.com/netflix-s-cowboy-bebop-is-a-bloodless-substitute-for-th-1848040283)

Gee, what a surprise.

[Skitch]

Joblo gave it a 9/10. *shrug* We will see...

[StuSmallz]

Joblo gave it a 9/10. *shrug* We will see...That seems like an outlier compared to the other critics though, since the show overall is sitting at a meh 5.5 critical average over on RT at the moment...

[StuSmallz]

Ugh:


https://youtu.be/u2JhUjR39Kw

[Ivan Drago]

Really don't get the hate people have for that clip when that’s exactly how Ed would look in live action. That said, she was going to go either way with audiences no matter what, but this looks faithful enough to the anime for me to not have an issue.

[Skitch]

Seems the people that hate Ed in the anime have same reaction to live action.

[StuSmallz]

Seems the people that hate Ed in the anime have same reaction to live action.I loved Ed in the Anime, but I disliked him in this clip because what worked in animated form can easily become obnoxious in live-action, and this is definitely one of those instances they should've done something besides just automatically doing a 1:1 translation.

[Skitch]

I finished it today, and this was far from a 1:1 translation.

[StuSmallz]

I finished it today, and this was far from a 1:1 translation.I don't think I'm going to even watch it, because I don't want to unintentionally encourage Netflix to make any more of it...

https://i.ibb.co/S3TrHXJ/theyareontome.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

Just out of curiosity though, do you mean it was different in a good, or bad way? Or somewhere in-between?

[Skitch]

I don't think I'm going to even watch it, because I don't want to unintentionally encourage Netflix to make any more of it...

https://i.ibb.co/S3TrHXJ/theyareontome.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

Just out of curiosity though, do you mean it was different in a good, or bad way? Or somewhere in-between?

In a good way. It kept the spirit of each of the characters, expanded heavily on backstories, and really only recreated an episode or two of the original show. It touched on several of the fan favorite plots without just straight remaking them. In the anime Vicious was in, what, 3 of almost 30 episodes? He's in damn near every one here, for better or worse, up to the viewer, but this show was definitely not a straight through remake, imo.

Spike and Jet and Faye were so well cast, I absolutely want more.

[Skitch]

Also, I'm not trying to sell it to you. I doubt you would like it. I'm only saying it's not an attempted shot for shot remake.

[Ivan Drago]

In a good way. It kept the spirit of each of the characters, expanded heavily on backstories, and really only recreated an episode or two of the original show. It touched on several of the fan favorite plots without just straight remaking them. In the anime Vicious was in, what, 3 of almost 30 episodes? He's in damn near every one here, for better or worse, up to the viewer, but this show was definitely not a straight through remake, imo.

Spike and Jet and Faye were so well cast, I absolutely want more.

I had a friend tell me it felt like an original idea but with the Cowboy Bebop name cynically slapped on it because people want to see IP they're familiar with. I DO need to see more of the live action version, but from what I've seen of it, there's more effort put into getting the characters right than a certain mouse-eared conglomerate does with its live action remakes.

[StuSmallz]

https://youtu.be/1KMlm0TVJKA

[Skitch]

I can't figure out what you want, Stu. You say it's pointless to remake it if you're just remaking and not adding anything new, then post a video that whines that it's not a straight remake lol

[Idioteque Stalker]

Stu is drunk with hatred!

[DFA1979]

I don't like how Ed looks in the life action version currently. I'll get to this at some point amongst the oh 60 other shows I'm also watching haha.

[Skitch]

I didn't love live action Ed either. But maybe it's a Fellowship Gollum, and round 2 will improve.

[StuSmallz]

I can't figure out what you want, Stu. You say it's pointless to remake it if you're just remaking and not adding anything new, then post a video that whines that it's not a straight remake lolIt's not a contradiction for me to have not been interested in this Bebop back when it looked like a beat-for-beat remake, while also thinking that these changes sound like bad ideas. I mean, how can any Bebopper not think that the characters calling him "Fearless" instead of Spike sounds like an incredibly stupid, pointless change?

[Skitch]

They do call him Spike. He changed his name when he left the Syndicate. So?

[StuSmallz]

They do call him Spike. He changed his name when he left the Syndicate. So?Wait, so his real name in the Netflix version was actually "Fearless", and his nickname is Spike? Geez, that's even stupider!

[StuSmallz]

HEAR US OUT: 5 THINGS COWBOY BEBOP GETS RIGHT (AND 2 IT GETS WRONG) (https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/hear-us-out-5-things-cowboy-bebop-gets-right-and-2-it-gets-wrong/)

[Idioteque Stalker]

Viewership underwhelming, not renewed.

[StuSmallz]

Viewership underwhelming, not renewed.
https://i.ibb.co/zsmsS6j/sister-act-gif-1450365032-1492181312.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[Skitch]

Celebrating any show being cancelled is so bizarre to me.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Stu is celebrating his successful smear campaign.

[Skitch]

Stu is celebrating hundreds of people losing a job.

[transmogrifier]

Stu is celebrating making some piece of media so important to his life that any other attempt to approach that media by others in any way that does not match his standards represents a personal attack.

I'm only half joking; I will never really understand how anyone can get so wound up about someone remaking or reimagining or spinning something off something you love. No matter what anyone else does, the original thing that you loved is still there. What is there to get angry about? The Wild Bunch is my favorite movie of all time. How many fucks do I give about the proposed remake? Zero. If it is good, I will watch it, if it isn't, I won't. The original is still there, being awesome.

[Skitch]

Once I had that realization (back in the RT days), I never was bothered by remakes again. Besides, occasionally they turn out either decent or an interesting reinterpretation.

And sure, sometimes they're Point Break. But you know what? I laughed at it, and moved on. Original Point Break didn't change. It's still awesome. Heck, the remake could be a useful tool as film study to show how doing pretty much the opposite of everything of the heart of the original is a bad idea.

[DFA1979]

I've seen as many bad sequels as I have remakes. At least I feel so anyways. It happens.

[Irish]

No matter what anyone else does, the original thing that you loved is still there.

https://i.imgur.com/TwiDmFV.jpg

[Irish]

Stu's expression may be a little off, but he's got the right spirit. I think you guys are dunking on him just to dunk.

I have zero attachment to the original "Bebop" (it was cool 20 years ago, but c'mon) and I could only make it through about 10 minutes of the live action remake. The visuals were sorta aesthetically vulgar, and the whole exercise felt extremely cynical in the worst way. So good riddance to bad rubbish and all that.

I disagree with trans on a fundamental point, though, because I think remakes and recuts can occasionally supplant their original sources.

Cf: "Scarface," "The Maltese Falcon," "The Magnificent Seven," "A Fistful of Dollars," "Oceans 11," "The Thomas Crowne Affair," "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," "Heaven Can Wait," "The Thing," "Cape Fear," "The Birdcage," "Insomnia," "The Departed," "The Hills Have Eyes," "True Grit."

Then there's "Star Wars" special editions and various "director's cuts." Cf: "Blade Runner," "Terminator 2: Judgement Day," and the entire "Alien" franchise, etc. Some of these recuts are radically different than their sources, but they still become the de facto version in the popular imagination. Theatrical cuts are then relegated to the status of second disc extras in "ultimate" edition box sets, if they're commercially available at all.

Sure, the original films may still technically exist somewhere, but they're not part of the cultural conversation in a meaningful way. Like, I see someone talking on social media about "True Grit," I already know they're not talking about John Wayne. Someone else talks about "Blade Runner," and it's a good guess they've never heard Harrison Ford's shitty voiceover. This matters because without public interest there will be less incentive for streaming companies to host those original films and original cuts.

If you love older work, this system --- that only values what's newest and what's still commercial --- really sucks.

[transmogrifier]

I disagree with trans on a fundamental point, though, because I think remakes and recuts can occasionally supplant their original sources.

Cf: "Scarface," "The Maltese Falcon," "The Magnificent Seven," "A Fistful of Dollars," "Oceans 11," "The Thomas Crowne Affair," "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," "Heaven Can Wait," "The Thing," "Cape Fear," "The Birdcage," "Insomnia," "The Departed," "The Hills Have Eyes," "True Grit."

Then there's "Star Wars" special editions and various "director's cuts." Cf: "Blade Runner," "Terminator 2: Judgement Day," and the entire "Alien" franchise, etc. Some of these recuts are radically different than their sources. The originals are then relegated to the status of second disc extras in "ultimate" edition box sets, if they're commercially available at all.

Sure, the originals still technically exist somewhere, but they're not part of the cultural conversation in a meaningful way. Like, I see someone talking on social media about "True Grit," I already know they're not talking about John Wayne. This matters because without public interest there will be less incentive for streaming companies to host those original films.

If you love older work, this system --- that only values what's newest and what's still commercial --- really sucks.

But, from my perspective, it doesn't matter to me whether The Wild Bunch gets streamed or not. It has been made, I own it, I can watch it whenever I want. In that context, whether there is a remake or not makes no difference to me. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the film one bit. If future generations prefer to talk about the new True Grit....so what, really? Is it fundamentally any different from people talking more about Free Guy today than they are about, say, The Truman Show? Eventually, as with all movies forever, the one that stands the test of time will last out; on an individual level, we still get to watch and love the one we prefer until we shuffle off into the beyond.

Now, from the other perspective, I do bemoan remakes, spin-offs, the 1 trillionth MCU crossover event if it means that fewer decent original films are going to be made in the future. But to my mind, that is a separate conversation.

[transmogrifier]

https://i.imgur.com/TwiDmFV.jpg

If I was talking about recuts/director's cuts, you may have a point. But I expressly wasn't. And neither was Stu. Original Star Wars forever, by the way!

[Irish]

But, from my perspective, it doesn't matter to me whether The Wild Bunch gets streamed or not. It has been made, I own it, I can watch it whenever I want. In that context, whether there is a remake or not makes no difference to me. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the film one bit. If future generations prefer to talk about the new True Grit....so what, really? Is it fundamentally any different from people talking more about Free Guy today than they are about, say, The Truman Show? Eventually, as with all movies forever, the one that stands the test of time will last out; on an individual level, we still get to watch and love the one we prefer until we shuffle off into the beyond.

I dunno. I think this shit should be widely available to anyone at anytime, because that's better for everyone. (I mean, libraries, right?)

We shouldn't be required to hoard dead formats just to ensure access to old movies. (For one, that option isn't available to everyone. For two, it isn't a viable solution longer term. For three, it quickly becomes flat out crazy.)


If I was talking about recuts/director's cuts, you may have a point. But I expressly wasn't. And neither was Stu.

Yeah, I added to the existing argument. I'm saying recuts are often functionally the same as remakes. The difference between versions of "Blade Runner" and "Alien 3" are probably the best examples of this.

I mentioned it because a couple of years ago, I tried like hell to find the "Alien 3" theatrical cut online and couldn't. Not even in bootleg form. I don't care enough about the movie to want to own it and keep it forever, but I did want to see it again, and the fact that it went MIA troubled me.

[Skitch]

Now, from the other perspective, I do bemoan remakes, spin-offs, the 1 trillionth MCU crossover event if it means that fewer decent original films are going to be made in the future. But to my mind, that is a separate conversation.

I agree, separate conversation. As is recuts, because that is physically altering the original version...in my mind, that's wholly different than what we were discussing in remakes. The remakes we were discussing were entirely different entities from the original, that is something that can be compartmentalized. Alterations such as Irish mentioned are different animal altogether.

[transmogrifier]

I dunno. I think this shit should be widely available to anyone at anytime, because that's better for everyone. (I mean, libraries, right?)

We shouldn't be required to hoard dead formats just to ensure access to old movies. (For one, that option isn't available to everyone. For two, it isn't a viable solution longer term. For three, it quickly becomes flat out crazy.)



This is true; I guess I fundamentally disagree with the premise that a remake will specifically block the original from being streamed; to me, it is more of a problem with a loss of rights/a loss of interest in presenting older films in general. One of the weakest things about Netflix is their complete lack of interest in older films. I agree that is a problem. But I don't think that is the same thing as believing their upcoming remake (sequel? who knows) of Texas Chain Saw Massacre is what will eventually prevent the original from being streamed/cared about. The problem is more general than that. And being angry at the TCSM remake would be misdirected as a result.