The Wire

[Kurosawa Fan]

It's the best show on television. Just admit it.

[Sycophant]

I'm glad season four is being released on DVD at a significantly lower SRP. I hope HBO sees good returns on this and learns from it.

I've been thinking I need to blitz through all four seasons again before season five debuts in... what, February?

It's the greatest show there ever was. Cue number8 saying Homicide was better in...

[Kurosawa Fan]

He hasn't even finished The Wire, so his opinion isn't valid. I don't say that The Wire is better than Homicide because I haven't seen the latter.

February can't come soon enough.

[number8]

Homicide is better.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Homicide is better.

If we ever get rep, expect some negative.

[Sycophant]

I think I'll watch Homicide soon. It really makes no sense that I haven't watched it at all yet.

[number8]

Well, how do you gauge? Homicide has more seasons than The Wire. Do I wait until The Wire hits 7 seasons to be fair?

I've seen the first 3 seasons of The Wire. If I compare it to the first 3 of Homicide, then Homicide is better. If Season 4 is as godly as everyone say (which I'm not doubting), then even if it has the possibility of eclipsing any season of Homicide, I'd still tout Homicide as the better series because it's more consistent and has more characters that I like.

[DSNT]

Well, how do you gauge? Homicide has more seasons than The Wire. Do I wait until The Wire hits 7 seasons to be fair?
The Wire's next season, the 5th, will be its last.

I can't speak for Homicide, having only seen a few episodes (which were okay), but I've never seen a show that develops from season to season as The Wire did.

[Ezee E]

I'm rewatching The Wire while my friend sees it for the first time.

Second time around makes me appreciate the first season more now that I know all the characters pretty well.

[Lucky]

I'm halfway through Season 2 but I got sidetracked when I borrowed The Office UK from a friend. Now that I have burned through that series in a couple days, I'm ready to finish this up.

[Torgo]

Spectacular show! Up there with The Office (UK) as one of my very favorites.

The season 4 DVDs will be released on December 4. Can't wait!

[Morris Schæffer]

The "villains" are so memorable and exceptionally written as well. I can't believe one wonderful character has exited the show via season three. That was a shocking moment especiallysince it was the first time that fear was clearly visible in the man's face.

[DSNT]

Season 4 is amazing. You'll love it.

Last I heard, Season 5 was going live in January. Does anyone know if the episodes have already been shot, or could they become WGA strike collateral damage?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Season 4 is amazing. You'll love it.

Last I heard, Season 5 was going live in January. Does anyone know if the episodes have already been shot, or could they become WGA strike collateral damage?

Someone I know personally said that the show was safe, but I have no evidence to back that up. I'm just praying it's true.

[Sycophant]

I'm almost positive it's all in the can by now. At the very least, the writing portion is well behind them, as is the production phase. I think photography wrapped in September or something.

[number8]

I believe HBO shows work differently than network shows. I think they shoot early.

[Ezee E]

HBO shoots all of its season together because of its larger then normal budget. Its probably near the end of its editing phase by now. It's safe.

The dude's next show in Orleans may take a while to come.

[DSNT]

Definitely safe. I just watched my TiVo'd CYE last night and there was a Wire commercial beforehand saying January 2008.

[Lucky]

I forgot to drop by here when I finished Season 2. Without stating the obvious that it's fantastic television, I think certain aspects of the season felt undercooked. I felt like half of the police squad really took a backseat just so we can feel comfortable seeing familiar faces once and awhile. Greggs, Daniels, and Prez were all power players the first year, but faded into the background during the second. The same can be said about characters from the drug dealer side, but their storyline was significantly diminished as a whole this year. I really enjoyed the port cast, though, so it's give and take I suppose.

Still great and I'm not even going to say it's a step down, just that I prefer Season 1.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I feel exactly the same way. I still thought season 2 was great, but I prefer season 1. Still, seasons 3 and 4 are progressively better than season 1, with season 4 being the best season of any television show I've ever seen. I can't wait for next year.

[DSNT]

Season 2 was my least favorite, but I came to appreciate it more in time, because the show builds on it, like they do everything else.

One thing I love about The Wire is that, with the exception of McNulty, there are no major characters, and even he fades into the background on occasion. Characters will appear based on the story's need, not popularity or contractual obligation. This makes the show even more closer to reality, as there are always a revolving cast of characters within any institution.

Seasons 3 and 4 will blow you away.

[DSNT]

In case you guys didn't know, Season 4 is pretty cheap to pre-order at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Wire-Complete-Fourth-Season/dp/B000QXDJLI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1196034264&sr=8-1). That may be a Black Friday/Cyber Monday price, so it might change quick.

We got the first three seasons for $70 the other day. :pritch:

[MadMan]

I need to rent this show and see what KF is so damn excited about. And then if he's wrong I'll negatively rep him :P

If he's right though? I'll agree with him. What did you expect more rep KF? You'll have to try harder than that ;)

[Ezee E]

I need to rent this show and see what KF is so damn excited about. And then if he's wrong I'll negatively rep him :P

If he's right though? I'll agree with him. What did you expect more rep KF? You'll have to try harder than that ;)
You won't disagree with him too much. Season 4 is as good as TV can get really. The only shows that have compared are a few Sopranos seasons, and probably the first season of Oz.

[Ezee E]

$27.49 right away for a HBO TV Series? Done.

[Sycophant]

In case you guys didn't know, Season 4 is pretty cheap to pre-order at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Wire-Complete-Fourth-Season/dp/B000QXDJLI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1196034264&sr=8-1). That may be a Black Friday/Cyber Monday price, so it might change quick.

We got the first three seasons for $70 the other day. :pritch:

God bless Amazon and their willingness to reduce the prices on preorders if they lower the price after you purchase it. :pritch:

[Boner M]

Season 1 was great. It takes a lot of energy for me to take a break from movies and watch an entire season of a TV show, so that's the only thing holding me back from checking out any subsequent seasons. I'll get to it one day.

[ledfloyd]

i just watched the first three episodes. the first episode didn't wow me, as i was expecting 'the best show on television' to. at first i found it slightly derivative. but after awhile, i realized with the first episode, they weren't trying to impress anybody, they were just doing what they do. and by the end of the second episode i could tell i was hooked. episode three capped it off. the scene with d'angelo teaching those kids how to play chess was great. d'angelo appears to be the most sympathetic character to me. which is unique. though mcnulty is good too. netflix can't get disc 2 to me soon enough.

[Saya]

Here are some new short promos for season 5:

Carcetti:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIsYWcHbwLU

McNulty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVB-d7tWIII

Bubbles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uMd2HCcQ_c

Marlo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPflEzVBSq0

Omar: (this one has some minor spoilers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwhryZsvU6E

Awesome stuff!

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm torn. Do I watch those, or do I go into the new season fresh? The temptation will likely get the better of me down the line, but for now I'll hold off.

[Saya]

I couldn't resist watching them. If you've seen the older promo of season 5, then you'd know what the McNulty one is about. ;)

This season is gonna be fantastic.

[Ezee E]

I'll bet that Bubbles will be the first actor to get nominated from the Wire for what he'll go through this season.

It'll be well-deserved, but overlooked at the same time because many other performances should've been nominated already, especially last season with Carcetti and the boys.

[ledfloyd]

i just finished watching season 1. without a doubt the greatest season of any television show i've ever seen. every aspect of the show is absolutely top notch. this season would hang with most great movies i've seen this decade. something i couldn't think of saying about any other show. and it actually changed the way i look at the world. which i think is as big a compliment as you can pay to any work of art.

[Sycophant]

Before, I'd seen the next three seasons, ledfloyd, I was saying the same thing. It's really quite phenomenal, isn't it?

[Ezee E]

Watching Season 4 again. So good. Oh, so good.

[ledfloyd]

i'm a few episodes into season 2. it's definitely slightly less intense. of course it's still early. i dunno if the dock stuff is as exciting as the pit was. but ziggy is funny as hell. the only thing that i kinda felt negative about was how the "team" miraculously got reunited. seemed like too many strings had to be pulled plotwise. first thing in the show that hasn't felt natural IMO.

[Ezee E]

Man, I wonder if the kids are going to drop out for Season 5. It would be a shame to see them go.

[Sycophant]

So, Amazon's got some The Wire prequels up. Three short vignettes, adding some extra back story to four characters.

Right here, everyone (http://www.amazon.com/Wire-Complete-Fourth-Season/dp/B000QXDJLI/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1196890719&sr=8-1).

I guess they'll be on HBO OnDemand soon enough and will be airing after episodes, as well.

The only one I really liked was the Omar one.

[Ezee E]

So, Amazon's got some The Wire prequels up. Three short vignettes, adding some extra back story to four characters.

Right here, everyone (http://www.amazon.com/Wire-Complete-Fourth-Season/dp/B000QXDJLI/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1196890719&sr=8-1).

I guess they'll be on HBO OnDemand soon enough and will be airing after episodes, as well.

The only one I really liked was the Omar one.
Omar and McNulty's seemed true. Prop Joe was pretty dumb.

[Ezee E]

Finishing up Season 4 for the second time and just wanted to make a few comments. Spoilers abound, so don't read if you haven't watched the season:





-The children's story is one of the best filmed. This is something that movies could never do, and fully uses the medium of television. We are exposed to all four characters, see how they appear to the general public, but then we start digging deep into their layers and see who they really are, and their inevitable future catches up to them because of what they are exposed to. Most interesting to me was the one that appears the most innocent at first. Michael goes from being the one that rejects money from Marlo and staying out of trouble, by learning boxing on his own, to becoming a Corner boy because of the return of his abusive father. By the end, there is so much anger, that he's the most dangerous of them all.

-Chris, despite being a man of few words, is quickly becoming my favorite character. Snoop gets most of the credit, but this guy is terrifying. He's practically a Grim Reaper, and he seems to have the same past as Michael, only we haven't seen anything from his past. He keeps it protected, but when he meets up with Michael's father, something comes out.

-One question, why do people even follow former Mayor Clarence Royce? Is it just because he looked great in the numbers games? I love seeing Carcetti playing the Political Racial game. It seems ridiculous, but I can fully believe it as firing one person, he has to fire another to please a set of people.

--

Can't wait for Season 5.

Any predictions?

[Saya]

Promo image:

http://i4.tinypic.com/6x8qgjq.jpg

[Sycophant]

This is less than four weeks away. I am just about giddy with anticipation.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Holy crap, I'm nearly peeing myself.

[Saya]

The trailer for the final season:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O7HoWd7mY8E

Wow :cool:

[Qrazy]

Fuck yes.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Fuck yes.

My thoughts exactly. January 6th can't come soon enough.

[krazed]

Man, I can't believe it's almost here. I'm coming back to school early so I can watch this.

And KF: those are just like little 30 second commercials for the show that air on HBO. They're nifty, I don't think there's anything too spoilery in them.

[Kurosawa Fan]

And KF: those are just like little 30 second commercials for the show that air on HBO. They're nifty, I don't think there's anything too spoilery in them.

Alright. I'll take a gander. Thanks.

[DSNT]

I'm so tempted to watch the trailer and those clips but I want to go in totally spoiler free. I don't think I've ever been this excited for a TV season.

[Qrazy]

I'm so tempted to watch the trailer and those clips but I want to go in totally spoiler free. I don't think I've ever been this excited for a TV season.

OMAR KILLS DUMBLEDORE!!!

[Winston*]

So, apparently Warner Bros isn't going to be releasing seasons 3 and 4 on region 4 at all. :evil:

[Acapelli]

I really, really can't fucking wait.

[ledfloyd]

i just finished season 3. this show is un fucking real. seriously it's too good to exist. i can't fathom a show coming anywhere close to it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I bought the first two seasons with my Best Buy gift cards (I got one for Christmas and one when I bought my wife's iPod, plus my wife had a few old ones she didn't care to spend). Cost me $6 for both sets. I'll pick up seasons 3 and 4 online somewhere when my fantasy football money comes in. The show is just too good not to own. I can't wait to watch it all again with my wife.

[krazed]

It's really frustrating trying to get your friends into this show because they aren't used to investing so much time into something. Now that I've got all the seasons, I think I'll try and force them to sit and watch the first 3 eps and they'll be hooked, haha.

[Ezee E]

It's really frustrating trying to get your friends into this show because they aren't used to investing so much time into something. Now that I've got all the seasons, I think I'll try and force them to sit and watch the first 3 eps and they'll be hooked, haha.
It worked on my roommates. one of them pumped out Seasons 2-3 in a week.

[Kurosawa Fan]

It's really frustrating trying to get your friends into this show because they aren't used to investing so much time into something. Now that I've got all the seasons, I think I'll try and force them to sit and watch the first 3 eps and they'll be hooked, haha.

Yeah, I'll be forcing my wife to sit down and watch season one with me as soon as it's delivered to my house.

[Lucky]

Just got Season 3 today for Christmas. I'm slowly catching up.

[ledfloyd]

It's really frustrating trying to get your friends into this show because they aren't used to investing so much time into something. Now that I've got all the seasons, I think I'll try and force them to sit and watch the first 3 eps and they'll be hooked, haha.
i've gotten 3 friends hooked. it wasn't too hard. i just had to warn them the pilot wouldn't sell them immediately.

[Ezee E]

Season 5 predictions?

[transmogrifier]

Season 5 predictions?


It'll rock?

[Ezee E]

It'll rock?
That's not a prediction. We already know it.

[ledfloyd]

That's not a prediction. We already know it.
what if it completely jumped the shark?

[Sycophant]

what if it completely jumped the shark?

*imagines Omar jumping over a shark on his motorcycle*

[Qrazy]

I've decided to force feed my girlfriend seasons 1-4 in the next week so she can watch season 5 with me. :P

[Ezee E]

what if it completely jumped the shark?
That would be horrible, but since the creators have had this in mind since its creation, it'll be in good hands. Plus, it's focusing on where they're best at, the journalism.

They had the idea of doing a sixth season and bringing in the Mexican gangs, that's where it could've jumped, but they decided to stop it early, and move on to other projects.

Brother Mouzone is the closest to jumping the shark. What an annoying character.


Anyway, predictions:

-Omar falls behind the game and eventually gets killed after nearly taking down Marlo's entire gang.

-Bubbles finally goes straight, but also gets eaten up by the gang when he's exposed as a cop on the streets.

-Michael becomes a pawn for Marlo, and falls into a few traps.

-As a result of all this, a new gang emerges and takes West Baltimore. Perhaps a Mexican gang?

[ledfloyd]

Brother Mouzone is the closest to jumping the shark. What an annoying character.
good point. he's the only character that breaks the impressive realism whenever he shows up. it's like an urkel assassin.

[Qrazy]

-Bubbles finally goes straight, but also gets eaten up by the gang when he's exposed as a cop on the streets.

I dunno, I kind of see Bubs just finally OD'ing, unable to escape the cycle.

[Ezee E]

I dunno, I kind of see Bubs just finally OD'ing, unable to escape the cycle.
That man has such immunity, he'd have to take the amount of drugs to kill 10 people just to get a buzz at this point.

[Saya]

The first couple episodes have leaked already.

I've watched the first one and it's just as great as ever. It takes place about a year after season 4.

Major things happened in the first episode:

- The precredit scene with Bunk and the 'lie detector test' was hilarious.
- Cops not getting paid for overtime. Mayor Carcetti in big trouble.
- The Marlo investigation getting killed.
- The council president and the drugs / property connection.
- McNulty and Greggs back at Homicide.
- Bubbles is looking great! That'll probably change later in the season.
- Carver had one hell of a character development over the last seasons.

Edit:

- I forgot about Michael, Bug and Dookie. It seems he's risen in rank quite fast in Marlo's crew. Running some corners and making lots of money.
- No sign of Randy yet or that kid from Wee-Bey.

[Ezee E]

The first couple episodes have leaked already.

I've watched the first one and it's just as great as ever. It takes place about a year after season 4.

Major things happened in the first episode:

- The precredit scene with Bunk and the 'lie detector test' was hilarious.
- Cops not getting paid for overtime. Mayor Carcetti in big trouble.
- The Marlo investigation getting killed.
- The council president and the drugs / property connection.
- McNulty and Greggs back at Homicide.
- Bubbles is looking great! That'll probably change later in the season.
- Carver had one hell of a character development over the last seasons.

Edit:

- I forgot about Michael, Bug and Dookie. It seems he's risen in rank quite fast in Marlo's crew. Running some corners and making lots of money.
- No sign of Randy yet or that kid from Wee-Bey.
Yeah. I ain't reading that.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm not watching the leaked episodes either. I don't want to wait 3 weeks for a new episode after starting a new season. That pisses me off with network shows, and it's one of the reasons I'm so willing to check out a series on HBO or Showtime.

[Ezee E]

I'm not watching the leaked episodes either. I don't want to wait 3 weeks for a new episode after starting a new season. That pisses me off with network shows, and it's one of the reasons I'm so willing to check out a series on HBO or Showtime.
It's basically the second reason why I don't watch network television. The first being the quality of 90% of the shows being horrible.

Rescue Me is one show that never has reruns, and almost feels like an HBO show.

[DSNT]

For those with HBO On Demand, the first episode is already there. Debating whether to watch it early or wait for HD.

[krazed]

Saya: stop fucking tempting me.
:cry:

[Saya]

Saya: stop fucking tempting me.
:cry:

Sorry. :P

I watched the second episode just now and it's even better. The ending is disturbing :eek::eek::eek:.

Also, the return of Avon and the Boris from season 2 is awesome. Glad to see he still has power inside the prison. He hasn't lost everything just yet. It also seems Michael doesn't agree with Marlo's methods. I wonder what that'll lead to, I don't see Michael taking over Marlo's place though. You have to be ruthless to rule those streets and Michael is too soft for that I think.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Fucking hell Saya. You're killing me. I'm going to have to avoid this thread until the show catches up with you.

[Saya]

I'm sorry. But it's over now. I'll have to wait until the third episode gets aired, because I don't have that one. :)

This season is shaping up to be a classic. Too bad there's only 10 episodes instead of 13.

[Kurosawa Fan]

This season is shaping up to be a classic. Too bad there's only 10 episodes instead of 13.

What!?! I hadn't heard this yet! :cry:

You just ruined my day.

[Ezee E]

What!?! I hadn't heard this yet! :cry:

You just ruined my day.
That's been well known for a while though.

Unfortunate it is.

[Sycophant]

That's been well known for a while though.

Unfortunate it is.Was this imposed on them by HBO or is it what the creative team decided best? If it's the former, it's a problem. If it's the latter, then whatevs.

[Saya]

Was this imposed on them by HBO or is it what the creative team decided best? If it's the former, it's a problem. If it's the latter, then whatevs.

I think it was David Simon who cut the season to ten episodes. Maybe it was someone else but I vaguely remember an interview in which David Simon said he needed only 10 episodes to tell the story.

The good news is that they're working on a new series about the war in iraq called Generation Kill.

[Ezee E]

I think it was David Simon who cut the season to ten episodes. Maybe it was someone else but I vaguely remember an interview in which David Simon said he needed only 10 episodes to tell the story.

The good news is that they're working on a new series about the war in iraq called Generation Kill.
That and a series about musicians in New Orleans.

[Sycophant]

That and a series about musicians in New Orleans.
Simon is striving to become God.

[transmogrifier]

What!?! I hadn't heard this yet! :cry:

You just ruined my day.

I did read somewhere though that the last episode would be movie length, or something. Can't confirm that, however.

[Sycophant]

I did read somewhere though that the last episode would be movie length, or something. Can't confirm that, however.I heard that as well. I think all the previous season finales (at least since season 2) ran slightly over an hour, as well, with the fourth season running at 78 minutes.

[Saya]

The first episodes of the seasons tend to be a bit longer than the rest too.

[Sycophant]

TheAtlantic's Mark Bowden has a great article (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/bowden-wire) on the worldview of David Simon's The Wire, especially pertaining to his journalistic background and his intentions in this new media-focused season.

[krazed]

It's almost here....

[Ezee E]

It's here, and it's as good as ever.


--


Lots of stuff going down. I love the heat among all the cops. Seeing Carver blow up was great, he has had the best character arc over all the seasons amongst the regulars. He's improved tremendously as an actor from his time in Oz as well.

The newspaper angle looks like it'll work out great. The head editor reminds me of my father a lot. Some of the same quotes he's had come right from my dad, only my dad is in sports. I'm curious to see where that'll go.

And Herc? Jees... Didn't see that coming.

Looks like this season might have more bodies then the rest I'm thinking.

[Sycophant]

My friends and I have decided season 5 is going to be marathoned after it finishes airing. We don't want to kill ourselves with anxiety.

[DSNT]

Very strong first ep. The newspaper thing looks like it'll work great, and I expect things will blow up in Carcetti's face quick.

[krazed]

Lots of stuff going down. I love the heat among all the cops. Seeing Carver blow up was great, he has had the best character arc over all the seasons amongst the regulars. He's improved tremendously as an actor from his time in Oz as well.

The newspaper angle looks like it'll work out great. The head editor reminds me of my father a lot. Some of the same quotes he's had come right from my dad, only my dad is in sports. I'm curious to see where that'll go.

And Herc? Jees... Didn't see that coming.

Looks like this season might have more bodies then the rest I'm thinking.

Agreed on all accounts. It really seems like this year everything's hanging by a thread. There's a real tension on all sides of the game, and I think everything is about to explode.

I'm really excited to see what Marlo's up to, also.

[ledfloyd]

so far so good.

[DSNT]

I'm really excited to see what Marlo's up to, also.
Yeah, looks like a possible turf war coming up soon. Can't tell if he's trying to play Prop Joe, or if he's preparing to go for the East side.

[transmogrifier]

Well fuck.

McNulty, McNulty, McNulty

[krazed]

Well fuck.

McNulty, McNulty, McNulty

Yeah. That scene was so :eek:

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I don't understand that still.

The scene with Mike being behind the house while the shooting went on was great though.

Some good comedic moments in this episode.

[ledfloyd]

Yeah, I don't understand that still.

he's trying to create a need for a major crimes unit.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I was going to say this before the season started, but forgot to post it. It seems a little limp-dicked now, but I'll post it anyway. My prediction this season:

McNulty dies. I see no other resolution to his character. His self-destructive behavior has only one other direction to go and that's death. Oh, and I found his latest exploit fairly ridiculous. If he was going to do something like that, why not do it with no one around? Why implicate Bunk? He can catch a body by himself, he did so earlier in the episode. I also think it's a bit above and beyond his character. He's still good police, no matter how insubordinate he may be. That seemed like a stretch.

[Ezee E]

I was going to say this before the season started, but forgot to post it. It seems a little limp-dicked now, but I'll post it anyway. My prediction this season:

McNulty dies. I see no other resolution to his character. His self-destructive behavior has only one other direction to go and that's death. Oh, and I found his latest exploit fairly ridiculous. If he was going to do something like that, why not do it with no one around? Why implicate Bunk? He can catch a body by himself, he did so earlier in the episode. I also think it's a bit above and beyond his character. He's still good police, no matter how insubordinate he may be. That seemed like a stretch.
agreed.

How will he die though? It'd be tragic, but I don't really see him being killed by gangsters at this point, unless he goes right after Marlo while his bodyguards are around, which isn't out of the question since his drinking is back.

[Kurosawa Fan]

agreed.

How will he die though? It'd be tragic, but I don't really see him being killed by gangsters at this point, unless he goes right after Marlo while his bodyguards are around, which isn't out of the question since his drinking is back.


Oh I think he gets killed by Marlo's crew, no question. His drinking is already out of control two episodes into the season. It'll reach a breaking point and he'll make a terrible mistake.

[transmogrifier]

I was going to say this before the season started, but forgot to post it. It seems a little limp-dicked now, but I'll post it anyway. My prediction this season:

McNulty dies. I see no other resolution to his character. His self-destructive behavior has only one other direction to go and that's death. Oh, and I found his latest exploit fairly ridiculous. If he was going to do something like that, why not do it with no one around? Why implicate Bunk? He can catch a body by himself, he did so earlier in the episode. I also think it's a bit above and beyond his character. He's still good police, no matter how insubordinate he may be. That seemed like a stretch.

Actually, I like that Bunk was there. It adds a new wrinkle to a relationship that has been pretty consistent for 4 seasons.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Actually, I like that Bunk was there. It adds a new wrinkle to a relationship that has been pretty consistent for 4 seasons.

Sure it's an interesting angle, but I can't see him doing that for the first time in front of him. They could have brought it up later when he's done it a time or two. Would have made it a tad more believable.

[transmogrifier]

I think McNulty is so sure of his "cause" that he expects everyone else to fall into line, no matter what crazy shit he gets up to. Being drunk wouldn't help either.

I think the success or not of this little stunt for the show relies heavily on what happens in the next couple of episodes. Could go either way.

[Kurosawa Fan]

One thing I need to have cleared up: that wasn't a murder, was it? Just a junky who fell from the upper floor and died?

[Ezee E]

One thing I need to have cleared up: that wasn't a murder, was it? Just a junky who fell from the upper floor and died?

That's what I figured. I'm not sure why Homicide why called though. It seems like someone else would be called to determine the death, then homicide, but I don't know much about policework.

[transmogrifier]

Earlier in the episode we saw McNulty called to the scene of the old woman in bed because the cop at the scene had suspicions about it. I suspect it was a similar situation. If in doubt, bring homicide out.

[ledfloyd]

typically if a body turns up homicide is called, unless there is absolutely no doubt it was natural causes. like a sick person dying in their home with family around. a junkie found in a vacant? no question homicide is the first person called.

[transmogrifier]

Episode Three...great episode, the pieces are slowly falling into place. Some great acting by West, even if his character's subplot seems somewhat contrived. It's great to see threads from earlier seasons weaving their way into season 5.

Omar back!
Good to see Michael and Dukie are still kids at heart.
Not sure about Lester getting involved in the McNulty thing. Obsession, huh?

[Saya]

The third episode was fantastic. I think some of the acting by Jamie Hector (Marlo) is not that good though. Maybe because he gets more screentime, it's more noticable than in previous episodes.

The Butchie torture scene was gruesome. Really sad to see him go. He was one of my favorite characters.

Glad to see Omar back though.

[Ezee E]

Is it just me or do the stories with McNulty and Omar this season seem "too movielike?" It doesn't feel like The Wire we've seen before. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but when compared to what we've seen before, it's just a little odd.

With that said, the newsroom scenes are the best thing this show has got right now. I'm absolutely loving it.

I hope Cutty isn't completely gone either.

[transmogrifier]

McNulty's seems movie-like, but Omar's is too early to tell. I'm enjoying it, because it's part of Marlo's birthing pains towards trying to become a kingpin - he's still not smart enough to leave the bad shit alone. (And, in a more functional sense, it makes sense that it's conventiently happening now in the time line because he was under surveiilance up until recently)

Can't wait to see how it plays out. Can see Prop Joe getting whacked.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, the Prop Joe story is one where I have no idea where it'll go. I can see where Vondis will bring it up to Prop Joe that Marlo is trying to move in simply because he knows he can trust Joe more.

Cheese doesn't seem to like Marlo, and I can see him becoming buds with Snoop and Chris, and taking over the Westside.

No idea.

[krazed]

Oh man, best episode.

I'm loving Marlo's progression. His ignorance is looking like it's going to overtake his arrogance and empty confidence; you take him out of the streets and he drowns.

Butchie, oh man. Most devastating thing I've seen since Bodie got shot down.

Omar's reaction to Butchie. So powerful.

Prop Joe could go either way at this point, he just feels like a sort of omnipresent force watching over the streets, Marlo may get desperate and off him. We'll see.

Lester agreeing with McNulty was fantastic.

Awesome episode.

[ledfloyd]

shit. i said in jest i thought the show might jump the shark in the fifth season. i had no such fears, but it is dangerously close. the thing i've always liked about the wire is it's realism. for the first time in over 50 episodes, i'm asked to suspend my disbelief. this might not seem like a big deal, but in the context of the wire, it could be termed jumping the shark.

simply put, there is absolutely no way freamon goes in with mcnulty on this. the idea that mcnulty would go that far in the first place, drunk or not, is questionable.

also, the newsroom stuff is the first time i've felt the wire was explaining itself to me. characters telling each other things they more or less know for the benefit of the audience.

i hope i'm wrong, but i sense this season is a few steps away from going off the deep end.

that said, the street level stuff with prop joe, marlo, avon et al is as good as ever. the political stuff is top notch as well.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, agreed about Freamon. The setup for that was pure Entourage-writing. Set up as something obvious, only for it to turn around with comedic relief. Kinda blegh.

[transmogrifier]

simply put, there is absolutely no way freamon goes in with mcnulty on this. the idea that mcnulty would go that far in the first place, drunk or not, is questionable.
.

I don't know, we saw in episode 2 Freamon sitting in his car off-duty, still checking out Marlo. He's just as obsessed.

[krazed]

I don't know, we saw in episode 2 Freamon sitting in his car off-duty, still checking out Marlo. He's just as obsessed.

I totally buy it.

He's obsessed with the case, as indicated by episode 2; bbut do you guys forget why he ended up in Major Crimes in the first place? They put him there because of his extreme police work; he's a good officer, he's jsut going off the cuff of the system because that's the only thing he can do to get the case back. Don't forget these people have spent years following this, it's very tough for them to just give it up. The reason Bunk doesn't understand why they're doing this is because he never worked the case like Lester and McNulty; this took so much out of them, there's no way they will let it slip by if there's anything they can do to stop it. S5 is full of desperation, it's the water boiling over the edge, these guys aren't doing anything out of character; they're doing what they absolutely have to do.

[Saya]

Did anyone else watch episode 4 yet? It's insane! :eek:

[krazed]

Did anyone else watch episode 4 yet? It's insane! :eek:

I cannot wait for Sunday.

[transmogrifier]

Did anyone else watch episode 4 yet? It's insane! :eek:

Don't say a word. Come on, Sunday, get your arse over here.

[transmogrifier]

I've now seen Episodes 4, 5 and 6.

:P

[Saya]

I've now seen Episodes 4, 5 and 6.

:P

Hehe, couldn't wait for sunday? ;)

I'm gonna watch 5,6,7 tonight! Can't wait!

[Ezee E]

Hehe, couldn't wait for sunday? ;)

I'm gonna watch 5,6,7 tonight! Can't wait!
Well I've seen Season 6, so fuck you all!

[krazed]

I'm refraining and waiting for Sunday.

God this is tough.

[transmogrifier]

Brilliant so far. Some very interesting moves, though I fear those who dislike the serial killer angle are not going to be much impressed with where it goes.

Episode 4, 5, 6 Spoilers

I saw it coming for Prop Joe. Thing is, now it really throws into doubt Marlo being taken down at the end. As long as Prop Joe was around, it was easy to see him being the last one standing due to his neutrality. Now, who the hell knows?

One interesting suggestion I read somewhere was the final shot being Avon coming out of prison, ready to pick up where he left off. I think that would be a perfect cap, but who knows what is in store?

A lot of progress in Marlo's character, showing him outwit (but not defeat) Omar and showing him totally destroy the co-op in a single meeting. I can really see Slim becoming an important part in taking him down if it comes to that.

Brilliant move to have Templeton become a major fabricator in the serial killer case, it really dovetails nicely.

The best part is having Bunk police the right way, get somewhere, and have him come up against the shitstorm McNulty has brought down on the department. It is a brilliant twist.

[ledfloyd]

where are you guys getting eps 5, 6 and 7?

[transmogrifier]

where are you guys getting eps 5, 6 and 7?

isohunt for me.

[krazed]

I feel like this Wire discussion is so ahead of me because I'm watching it week by week.

[Saya]

Episode 4,5,6,7 spoilers


Omar is Batman.

Did anyone else notice that one of the bums under the highway was a character from season two? He was one of the dockworkers. The one that snatched the cars with Ziggy.

The McNulty and Templeton storyline is so interesting. Even if Templeton eventually finds out that McNulty made the serial killer story up, he can't tell anyone about it since he lied as well.

As evil as Marlo is, I hate Cheese more now. After everything Prop Joe did for him...

Clay Davis in the courtroom was awesome. Sheee-ee-eeeet.



I wonder how they'll wrap up all the current storylines in 3 episodes. There's just so much going on.

[transmogrifier]

I assume Gus is going to trap Templeton and find out he made up the original call, and this will lead its way back to McNulty. At least, that's what I hope happens. And I would fucking love if Bunk is the one who cracks the case, making the whole made-up serial killer thing irrelevant in the end. I think that would be a perfect way to deal with the whole thing.

[krazed]

So uh, anybody just wanna talk about episode 4? I mean, I called it, but still :eek:

[transmogrifier]

So uh, anybody just wanna talk about episode 4? I mean, I called it, but still :eek:


Ah, they all run together to me, into one great big ball of awesome.

[Ezee E]

I would talk about it, but wherever you guys talk about it, you also talk about the next two episodes, and I don't want to read those.

[transmogrifier]

I would talk about it, but wherever you guys talk about it, you also talk about the next two episodes, and I don't want to read those.


Three. ;)

If it makes you feel any better, I think Episode 5 is probably the best of the series so far.

[krazed]

Ep 5:

So I dled it and I think it's missing a part. In the preview for ep 5, it shows a shootout between Chris, Snoop & Omar and also Michael training Dookie on how to shoot. This wasn't there. How did Omar get the limp? I assume he was shot in the altercation, but it was missing from my copy of ep5. Ugh.

[transmogrifier]

Ep 5:

So I dled it and I think it's missing a part. In the preview for ep 5, it shows a shootout between Chris, Snoop & Omar and also Michael training Dookie on how to shoot. This wasn't there. How did Omar get the limp? I assume he was shot in the altercation, but it was missing from my copy of ep5. Ugh.


I think you downloaded Episode 6 by mistake. How you describe Omar definitely only comes up in Episode 6.

[krazed]

UGH.

Luckily I was so drunk I really don't remember much of it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm through episode 4, and while I still have some misgivings about McNulty and Lester's activities, this season has been flat-out fantastic. Can't wait to see how things end.

[Sycophant]

I'm through episode 4, and while I still have some misgivings about McNulty and Lester's activities, this season has been flat-out fantastic. Can't wait to see how things end.I caught up to episode 4 today (started the season last night). I've got a few issues with how the season started out. Eleven may be a weird number, but if they'd been able to draw out the exposition with the Sun people a bit more, I'd've really appreciated it. Perhaps memory doesn't serve me well, but I don't remember being given this much of a crutch to the jargon when entering the worlds of the drug dealers, the cops, or the dock workers.

And dear God, I hope we get a little more rounding of the--what is his position, editor-in-chief? The old white guy who looks a little like Martin Sheen. I know Simon writes with a streak of vendetta, but the only character I can remember who is so vilified is perhaps Valcheck, but even that doesn't strike me as so cut and dry, 'cause at least we spent a lot of time with Valcheck. Our editor merely shows up to ruin good journalism and walk away.

Loving the newsroom angle in general though. Clark Johnson, Michelle Paress, and Tom McCarthy are giving great performances and their characters are spectacularly written.

I contest that the serial killer angle isn't the first time (nor the worst offense) that the show has asked us to suspend disbelief. Brother Mouzon stuck out much worse and did more damage to the show than this has thus far. My initial shock to Jimmy's action was soothed on contemplation, and I can actually accept that he and Lester would go where they do.

EDIT: And don't forget Hamsterdam, simultaneously one of the show's most outlandish concepts and one of my favorite movements.

I'm actually recounting in my head the ground episode 4 covers and it really does amaze me the way that The Wire runs so much information through without being very jarring.

My favorite shot in episode 4?

Clay Davis quitting the room from grand jury testimony, pausing, and passing Snydor and Freamon. The political thread in this is stellar stuff.

Also... am I wrong in reading that the one Omar's planning to bang on next is Michael? The video I watched was of pretty poor quality and I couldn't tell.

[Sycophant]

By the way, I love Carver's arc throughout this whole series, one of my favorites. Looking forward to where it leads now.

[Kurosawa Fan]

In answer to your spoiler, yes, that was him.

[transmogrifier]

In answer to your spoiler, yes, that was him.

No, it's not. I thought it was at first, but......it's not.

[Kurosawa Fan]

No, it's not. I thought it was at first, but......it's not.

Really? That's surprising. They even referred to him as "the young'un".

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I'm loving the journalism stuff. I'm still curious how it's going to all come together in the end.

Looks like a Drug War might be in the works with no clear leader, and most likely everyone knowing it's Marlo. Although he could get the reign simply due to intimidation. I still anticipate a new force coming in at the end when Omar gets in the mix.

[ledfloyd]

i agree with syncophant on the newsroom stuff. it does seem like we're being given more of a crutch for the jargon. it's a tactic that seems more west wing than the wire. and i also agree some of the newsroom villains are less shaded than the other ones. especially the guy that fakes a quote.

the street level and political level stuff is as strong as ever. i think this season will be worthwhile if only for the end of marlo's story. and the clay davis/carcetti situation. i wish simon's newsroom displayed more of the restraint he's shown in his portrayal of the schools, streets, docks and police.

my biggest problem with the serial killer thread is i don't see how it gets them any closer to marlo. won't it just have them open a major case unit to track down the serial killer?

[Saya]

my biggest problem with the serial killer thread is i don't see how it gets them any closer to marlo. won't it just have them open a major case unit to track down the serial killer?

Keep watching, this will be explained in the next couple episodes.

[Kurosawa Fan]

my biggest problem with the serial killer thread is i don't see how it gets them any closer to marlo. won't it just have them open a major case unit to track down the serial killer?

I thought McNulty already connected the red ribbon to one of the bodies in the vacants that are connected to Marlo. I thought that was part of the significance of the red ribbon, no?

[Saya]

I thought McNulty already connected the red ribbon to one of the bodies in the vacants that are connected to Marlo. I thought that was part of the significance of the red ribbon, no?

I believe the red ribbons had a different purpose. McNulty needed to give the serial killer his 'signature'. He wanted it to appear that the serial killer used red ribbons on his victims.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I believe the red ribbons had a different purpose. McNulty needed to give the serial killer his 'signature'. He wanted it to appear that the serial killer used red ribbons on his victims.

That I knew, but I thought he made an off-hand remark that the original red ribbon was on a vic that came out of the Marlo killings. I could be mistaken, but I remember thinking that was the connection while watching the episode.

[Ezee E]

That I knew, but I thought he made an off-hand remark that the original red ribbon was on a vic that came out of the Marlo killings. I could be mistaken, but I remember thinking that was the connection while watching the episode.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's right, because that's why McNulty was trying so hard to get the one detective to connect it to his previous murder.

[Sycophant]

By the way, has anyone mentioned yet how good this season's opening is? It's ragged, it's tired, it's resigned, it's desperate, and it's a bit fatalistic. It's not my favorite version of the song (those would be seasons 4 and 1, yes even above Waits's original), but it's expressive and it's got great corresponding visuals.

[Sycophant]

I just watched six and it made me fucking suck.
There's some real world gravity at play in the serial killer angle now. Everybody's tensing up and realizing this is not going to go on swimmingly. Jimmy's actions at the end of the episode literally had me squirming in my seat. I can't believe this is over halfway through the season. There's a lot that's going to remain unresolved at the end, I'm sure of it.

The whole Templeton thing is pretty good, but I wish he had a counterpoint (Gus Haynes) that wasn't so ruggedly, charmingly squeaky clean and morally straight. A little too easy. That this thread is coming off as black-and-white as it is is probably going to be the entire series's biggest misstep.

Wonderful, by the way, to see Nick Sobatka again, even if just for a minute.

[Kurosawa Fan]

By the way, has anyone mentioned yet how good this season's opening is? It's ragged, it's tired, it's resigned, it's desperate, and it's a bit fatalistic. It's not my favorite version of the song (those would be seasons 4 and 1, yes even above Waits's original), but it's expressive and it's got great corresponding visuals.

It's actually my least favorite version of the song, but I agree that the visuals are great.

[Ezee E]

It's actually my least favorite version of the song, but I agree that the visuals are great.
Yeah. It's my least favorite of the songs, but I dig the analysis by Sycophant.

[Ezee E]

Ooh. Great episode.

It's all coming together now. I have a feeling that it will only end poorly for most of the people involved because it's becoming too tough to back up the lies. The scene with McNulty and Templeton was pretty damn amazing to watch.

And Omar. Did not see that happening. Perfect.

Next Sunday can't be here soon enough.

[transmogrifier]

I assume you're talking about Episode 5, which is still my favorite of the season. (I've seen up to seven)

[Sycophant]

I've been following Jeff Goldberg and David Plotz's conversation (http://www.slate.com/id/2181449/entry/2183535) about the show over at Slate. They've really nailed what I think is the problem with this season: it's preachy. Much preachier than before.

It's also suffering from the most crystallized grudge David Simon possesses--against the Baltimore Sun. In the other venues the show has explored, corruption, ambition, self-interest and everything manifest themselves in ways that reveal problems in their institutions and all institutions at large. But how many Scott Templetons are there? Is a fabricating journalist what's really wrong with the modern day media? Or is it one of David Simon's favorite anecdotes to pull out when bashing his old employers?

And it's more than Plotz and Goldberg who have noticed that the newsroom stuff feels very anachronistic, which is strange considering how 2008 everything else feels.

I'm still enjoying the show but I'm finding it much less insightful and moving than previous seasons, particularly in the stuff directly involving the Sun and McNulty. Love Bubs, Carver, Greggs, Michael and Dukie, Davis, and Carcetti, though. The whole thing, by the way, feels much more like "television" than previous seasons have.

[Ezee E]

I've been following Jeff Goldberg and David Plotz's conversation (http://www.slate.com/id/2181449/entry/2183535) about the show over at Slate. They've really nailed what I think is the problem with this season: it's preachy. Much preachier than before.

It's also suffering from the most crystallized grudge David Simon possesses--against the Baltimore Sun. In the other venues the show has explored, corruption, ambition, self-interest and everything manifest themselves in ways that reveal problems in their institutions and all institutions at large. But how many Scott Templetons are there? Is a fabricating journalist what's really wrong with the modern day media? Or is it one of David Simon's favorite anecdotes to pull out when bashing his old employers?

And it's more than Plotz and Goldberg who have noticed that the newsroom stuff feels very anachronistic, which is strange considering how 2008 everything else feels.

I'm still enjoying the show but I'm finding it much less insightful and moving than previous seasons, particularly in the stuff directly involving the Sun and McNulty. Love Bubs, Carver, Greggs, Michael and Dukie, Davis, and Carcetti, though. The whole thing, by the way, feels much more like "television" than previous seasons have.
My dad, a sports editor for one of the Colorado papers, says everything's about right in that press room. He's seen all of it happening, and it is still happening. The papers are all in trouble. Hell, they remade their paper to look like a magazine, with more polls and pictures, in hopes of getting a younger demographic.

[ledfloyd]

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119888435168956541.html?mod= blog


Last winter, when HBO first committed to seeing the series through, it ordered eight episodes. Mr. Simon lobbied for 13; they finally settled on 10. "It's not a lot of time to tell the fifth season story and to wrap up all the story lines," says executive producer Nina K. Noble. "The story is somewhat accelerated, and you'll feel that in every episode."

eek.

i agree with the press room not feeling like the wire, and the mcnulty plot seeming more "TV" than "HBO." the rest of the show is still awesome though. basically, i agree with sync.

[Sycophant]

Well, there we go. I had thought that the ten-episode thing was a specific choice by the production team. It does feel really compressed and it's hurting the show. Maybe they should've just padded each episode to run over an hour. :P

Or better yet, have made those disappointingly impotent Wire prequels fill in something about the newsroom characters than bizarrely cutesy gee-that-Prop-Joe-always-was-a-playa anecdotes.

[EvilShoe]

I finished the fourth season yesterday.
Indeed the best season so far. I especially liked Prez' involvement. I thought we had seen the last of him.

How's the final season so far?

[ledfloyd]

just watched 6 & 7. wow...

i agree about mcnulty's actions at the end of 6 making me sick. you could see mcnulty coming to grips with how low he's sunk in that last shot.

and i can't believe clay fuckin davis. i hate that guy. you couldn't have thrown us a bone simon?

[Sycophant]

How's the final season so far?Weaker, rushed, still good, but a lot more like other television shows than any of the prior seasons.

[Sycophant]

Watched ep 7. God, this season has me conflicted.

I think once it's all done, I'm going to watch the whole series from the beginning to see how season 5 works in context of the bigger picture. I caught seasons one through four in one clean run in the span of about six weeks over a year ago, if I remember correctly.

Simon and other writers have repeatedly said season five is supposed to be more satirical in tone, and it certainly is. But intent doesn't justify something that doesn't work, and I'm not sure the show is wearing it so well, as a tonal shift over 80% of the way through the series is just too jarring.

[Kurosawa Fan]

My wife and I are watching the whole series (she'd never seen it before). We've been at it for about 4 weeks or so. We just finished season 3, and I have to say, when I take time to watch the episodes from season 5, I'm never terribly impressed. It's been a disappointment for me, I just can't deny it. I feel like I want it to be better than it is. At this point, I'm just hoping the last two or three episodes makes me forget the first half of this season.

[Sycophant]

Again, though, I'll echo that I think both this season and last season's opening credits sequences are absolute powerhouses and a testament to the power of montage, with this season's being perhaps as expressive as the show itself.

[Sycophant]

I have to say, when I take time to watch the episodes from season 5, I'm never terribly impressed. It's been a disappointment for me, I just can't deny it. I feel like I want it to be better than it is. At this point, I'm just hoping the last two or three episodes makes me forget the first half of this season.Yeah, I sometimes feel like I'm fighting my inner fanboy, that I'm overcompensating one way or the other. But there are certain qualities just missing this season.

One problem is that for the first time, I really feel like black-and-white elements have been introduced to the show. Gus Haynes? Good. The higher-ups? Bad. Scott Templeton is nearly beyond redemption and I think any believability and sympathy that Tom McCarthy is breathing into the role is actually at odds with the text.

Okay, Marlo could probably be argued as a force of evil. However, he's revealed some naivete in his dealings with Levy and Vondas that has injected a weird and muted kind of sympathy into his portrayal.

I've read some argument that this season the show is turning one of its central themes around for examination in putting Freamon and McNulty in the position of failing the institution (to what is surely to be a detriment to all causes, I think) instead of vice versa, but if this is what's going on, I'm not sure it's been expertly handled.

[ledfloyd]

I think once it's all done, I'm going to watch the whole series from the beginning to see how season 5 works in context of the bigger picture. I caught seasons one through four in one clean run in the span of about six weeks over a year ago, if I remember correctly.
i watched season one through four in a whirlwind starting at thanksgiving and i saw ep 1 of season 5 on time. i am in effect seeing it in context and i'm still just as conflicted as you are. maybe because i was watching 3-4 episodes at a go made the other seasons work better? dvd will tell.

[Sycophant]

See, I watched the first five episodes of season five in a batch and they didn't sit well with me either.

I've been following a lot of commentary across various blogs and only Slate's back-and-forth between Plotz and Goldberg has been really enlightening in its willingness to take the show to task for elements (though their commentary tends to be a little too glib and short for my tastes). I've been a little disappointed in the seeming passes that Andrew and Matt are giving the show over at the House Next Door.

The chiefest problem is the inorganic quality a lot of this had. We got a good deal of exposition to the dock workers and the political realm when those were introduced, and we had a character leave the police force to take us to school (is Prez not showing up this season? not that I'd want them to wedge him in just to wedge him in, of course). It's been very abrupt trying to surrender attention to the transparently moral universe of the newsroom. I also just don't think we were guided into the decisions made by McNulty and Freamon with very deft hands.

Bunk, however, this season is solid as a rock.

Hamsterdam was disbelief-suspending speculative fiction, sure, but it arose in the narrative in a way that really made sense. Before this season started, I would have told you that the one place the show faltered was introducing Brother Mouzone, a character that would feel more at home in the Marvel universe than The Wire. Ultimately, once they had introduced him, I think his handling towards the end of his appearances fit as best they could at the end of season 3.

This season (and, truthfully, at some moments over the last couple years), Omar has very nearly attained Mouzone's level of unbelievability. I've read fan droolings about how "reality is distorted" around Omar, that he's the one reprieve and sense of justice and morality from the oppressive nihilism in the show. Fucking fuck that. His persistence and coolness reflects a concept of myth and legend that doesn't seem to really exist anywhere else in the show. It's one thing for Omar to have this rep, it's another to watch him do it. God bless Michael K. Williams for playing the character so straight so far, but his continued survival has begun to reek of fan service. Maybe I'm missing the point of it, but it's increasingly becoming a stretch.

[ledfloyd]

Salon's commentary has been pretty good as well. I was with Omar, but it would've taken a huge stroke of luck for him to survive that fall. Still I'm willing to go with it. I wonder if the newsroom would've done better if Simon'd been given the 13 episodes he asked for. Possibly been introduced more thoroughly, relied on less West Wingish explanation and have more nuanced characters? I mean it's possible I guess. I didn't think there was any way I wouldn't love this season, and it's still great by TV standards, just not by Wire standards.

[Sycophant]

What I really would have loved would have been some kind of build-up to this newsroom stuff in the third or fourth season. We started getting City Hall/Carcetti stuff before that became a major, major thread, so even tying someone from outside into all this would have been nice.

And you're right, ledfloyd, about this still holding up well to TV standards. But The Wire has always felt to me somehow above normal television standards, in a class of its own. It just feels more TV-like, which is no compliment coming from me.

[Ezee E]

While not on par with the previous seasons, it's easily better then any other show on television right now.

And I have no idea how it's all going to end. It could really go in ten different directions.

The Templeton character finally showed a little good side the past episode, as we see that he has legit talent as a writer. I really liked that scene where he was told how good of an article he wrote.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, I'm not with you guys on Omar. I don't think he would have had any problem surviving that fall. It was only the third floor, which with most apartments is like 2 1/2 stories. He was falling into bushes and grass. I haven't seen 6 or 7 yet, so I don't know exactly what type of shape he'd be in, but surviving would have been pretty likely. I've jumped off my parents roof, which is a high 2 stories, many times in my youth. Yes, we were idiots. A friend broke his leg once, but aside from a few minor ankle injuries we were fine.

[Sycophant]

It's not the one leap that got to me, it's his seeming invulnerability. I may not be able to back this up when pressed.

[ledfloyd]

And you're right, ledfloyd, about this still holding up well to TV standards. But The Wire has always felt to me somehow above normal television standards, in a class of its own. It just feels more TV-like, which is no compliment coming from me.
seeing as how i can count all the TV dramas i've enjoyed on one hand it's not much of a compliment from me either.

[Ezee E]

I bought the Omar jump all the way. He was obviously very injured after it, nursing himself for several days, probably splinting his own broken ankle. It won't be good for him in the long run if he doesn't get treatment, but it's been done before.

[Kurosawa Fan]

It's not the one leap that got to me, it's his seeming invulnerability. I may not be able to back this up when pressed.

As someone who's going back through the series, there have been very few moments where he made a mistake and put himself in harms way. In fact, the only moment I can recall from the first three seasons is the shootout in the streets in season three. His survival to me has always been about his great instincts, not his invulnerability to physical harm.

[Sycophant]

As someone who's going back through the series, there have been very few moments where he made a mistake and put himself in harms way. In fact, the only moment I can recall from the first three seasons is the shootout in the streets in season three. His survival to me has always been about his great instincts, not his invulnerability to physical harm.I'll have to do just that one of these days. I may be responding more to the idiotic ramblings of some fans, talking about him more like a superhero than a character that fits in the universe of the show.

This is why the Internet is the worst thing ever.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I just finished episode 6 and didn't like it at all. The only angle I'm enjoying right now is Bunk doing old-fashioned police work, and Chris stressing about Omar. The rest is boring me, particularly McNulty and Freamon. I never thought this would happen with this show. I'm almost depressed about it.

[Ezee E]

Chris is my favorite character now. There's a lot of mystery to him still, and I even have a feeling that he doesn't like Marlo that much. Why he continues to work for him, I'm not all that sure, but there have been a few moments that make me think he'll turn on him.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Chris is my favorite character now. There's a lot of mystery to him still, and I even have a feeling that he doesn't like Marlo that much. Why he continues to work for him, I'm not all that sure, but there have been a few moments that make me think he'll turn on him.

Hm. I'm not sure about that. Again, from the perspective of someone who's going back through the series, they're much... chumier, for lack of a better word, than they are now, but I don't get a feeling from him that he'll turn. He hasn't shown any sign that he'd like to be on top, and there'd be no other reason to turn on him.

[Ezee E]

Disappointing episode. Things are too lost in the scamming field that they're losing track of the casework.

Anyways, here's a prediction based off the last shot of yesterday's episode.

Kima will be killed.

[ledfloyd]

Episode 8 :eek:

Fuckin Omar! RIP Was that Kenard?

When the FBI agent described the serial killer and the description matched McNulty almost exactly I lost it.

I didn't quite understand what the last shot was all about.

[Ezee E]

Weird. I didn't know Dennis Lehane has written two previous episodes, as well as this upcoming episode. Sweet.

[Sycophant]

Episode 8 :eek:

Fuckin Omar! RIP Was that Kenard?

When the FBI agent described the serial killer and the description matched McNulty almost exactly I lost it.

I didn't quite understand what the last shot was all about.
I could see the Omar thing coming. It had no choice but to happen at that point and the way it was drawn out was painful, but good.

But there. Is too much. Goddamn. Speechifying. I might not mind so much if they didn't stand out in such contrast to previous seasons or even the other dialogue in this season. Too clean, too rehearsed. Even Sydnor's realization was too pronounced. I swear this show used to be more nuanced and benefited for it.

I feel like we're maybe 20% of the way through the Templeton story which scares the hell out of my considering there's maybe 2.5 hours left of material.

Despite my resistance to the stories this season, movements in it still manage to affect me. Jimmy had my sympathies this episode.

Wondering how this all goes down.Oh, and...
FBI director walk-on? WTF?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yeah, episode 8 was the best episode of the season. That's not saying as much as it should, but at least we could be headed for a fantastic finale. I'm starting to feel excited again.

[krazed]

Yeah, episode 8 was the best episode of the season. That's not saying as much as it should, but at least we could be headed for a fantastic finale. I'm starting to feel excited again.

Yessss. So tempted to DL #9, I heard it's even better.

[Ezee E]

Wow. Great episode. I honestly did not see it coming.

Then, when Sydnor was sitting inthe car, they made you wait and wait, giving you the same feeling you had earlier in the episode. Way to make something out of nothing. Impressive.

[Sycophant]

If the fifth season of this show has been what it's been, I pretty much couldn't ask for a better episode 9.

Still hated the Pulitzer talk, but I'm letting it slide.

[ledfloyd]

God episode 9 was good. It almost felt like old times. The end was hard to watch. With Bug and Dukie. You understand what Mike is doing and why he's doing it but it doesn't make things any easier. Damn was that sad. And Kima...

One episode left, I think I might actually wait til this one airs instead of watching it ondemand.

[Sycophant]

I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but unless something really amazing happens in episode 10, I've really not liked the newspaper angle. Everything else though is shaping up in a way that might redeem some of my earlier misgivings.

By the way, some respect needs to be thrown Jamie Hector's way for his portrayal of Marlo. His fierce intensity and monstrosity is amazing, since in another show I would have no problem buying him as the soulful, introspective type on a first glance. Episode 9 gives him some real shining moments.

[ledfloyd]

I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but unless something really amazing happens in episode 10, I've really not liked the newspaper angle. Everything else though is shaping up in a way that might redeem some of my earlier misgivings.

By the way, some respect needs to be thrown Jamie Hector's way for his portrayal of Marlo. His fierce intensity and monstrosity is amazing, since in another show I would have no problem buying him as the soulful, introspective type on a first glance. Episode 9 gives him some real shining moments.
agreed on both counts. the newspaper parts have been the weakest of the entire series. and i wouldn't say they're weak just by wire standards. they're weak period.

i forgot to mention how awesome hector was in marlo's key scene this episode (you know the one). "my name IS my name!" he's so laid back most of the time that when he gets pissed it's twice as powerful.

[Sycophant]

One episode left, I think I might actually wait til this one airs instead of watching it ondemand.

Word on the net has it that it won't even be OnDemand next week and we'll have to wait for it to air. Dammit.

I think I might just rewatch 59 next week then.

[ledfloyd]

heh, good call, i've heard the last episode is going to be 93 minutes.

[ledfloyd]

decent article but simon gets indignant when the reporter questions the serial killer plot or the newsroom stuff.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/114438/page/1

[Ezee E]

Has anyone watched the miniseries by David Simon called The Corner? If you're a fan of The Wire you MUST check it out. It happened a year or two before the show, and focuses on Baltimore, but more on the consequences of drug use. Each episode focuses on one character, and after two of the six episodes, I'm stunned. It definitely focuses more on bleak, hopeless, and frustrated idea of Baltimore. It has half of the cast, only in reverse roles. Freamon is a junkie here. Who would've thought?

Check it out.

[ledfloyd]

It has half of the cast, only in reverse roles. Freamon is a junkie here. Who would've thought?

Check it out.
that's somewhat intentional. simon said when he was recasting actors his rule was to swap "good" and "bad" guys. i've always been a little wary of watching it cause i've heard it's one of the bleakest things on earth.

[Ezee E]

that's somewhat intentional. simon said when he was recasting actors his rule was to swap "good" and "bad" guys. i've always been a little wary of watching it cause i've heard it's one of the bleakest things on earth.
It's bleaker than bleak thus far.

Right from the getgo too as the director "interviews" the focus character in the city. It's rough.

[Saya]

The promo for the final episode:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oGXWUniLCZc

[ledfloyd]

i'm salivating.

[Sycophant]

Simon talks to some people at USC (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/03/the-wire-david.html). He says that the tightening of the fifth season to ten episodes actually works to the story's benefit and that if it wasn't, HBO would've funded more. The story actually is a reminder as to why I think it's best for me if I don't read a lot of Simon interviews and let his work stand for itself. But I'm linking it anyway.

[Ezee E]

Simon talks to some people at USC (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/03/the-wire-david.html). He says that the tightening of the fifth season to ten episodes actually works to the story's benefit and that if it wasn't, HBO would've funded more. The story actually is a reminder as to why I think it's best for me if I don't read a lot of Simon interviews and let his work stand for itself. But I'm linking it anyway.
He can say that it was for the show's benefit all he wanted, but he could very well be lying about that as well.

[Kurosawa Fan]

He's probably saying that in order to stay in HBO's good graces. If he goes out there saying they screwed him and his series, how likely is it they give him another show, especially since this one didn't exactly rule the ratings? He's doing PR, simple as that.

[ledfloyd]

he's going to be on fresh air tomorrow afternoon.

[Sycophant]

he's going to be on fresh air tomorrow afternoon.And I'll listen. :P

[Ezee E]

When does his miniseries air anyway?

[ledfloyd]

i'm listening to teh fresh air interview.

link (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87940925)

terry gross just spoiled omar. ruining a 5 year build up for anyone waiting for dvd who was tempted to listen today. the interview is quite good though.

[Ezee E]

Finished The Corner. It might be one of the most affecting things I've seen period. By the end, you're washed. Jees.

Great stuff.

[Qrazy]

He's probably saying that in order to stay in HBO's good graces. If he goes out there saying they screwed him and his series, how likely is it they give him another show, especially since this one didn't exactly rule the ratings? He's doing PR, simple as that.

More power to him. What happens if you don't do PR? Orson Welles, case example. I hope he sucks everyone in Hollywood's dick if it helps him keep making quality programming.

[Sycophant]

Terry Gross mostly avoided talking about the newspaper stuff, which I appreciated, because it allowed me to enjoy the interview a lot more.

I kind of love her.

[Sycophant]

Generation Kill is set to air in July, FYI.

[DSNT]

*cries*

You will be missed!

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, I was almost right.

McNulty ended up on the green felt. That was the scene I pictured in my head, only in my vision he was really dead.

Overall, a very solid send-off. Some of it was tied up a bit too tidy, but I absolutely loved the last scene with Marlo. Overall, the newspaper stuff was weak, Simon was just too biased, but the rest of the season came together nicely, and I'm pretty content with the season as a whole.

[transmogrifier]

Well, I was almost right.

McNulty ended up on the green felt. That was the scene I pictured in my head, only in my vision he was really dead.

Overall, a very solid send-off. Some of it was tied up a bit too tidy, but I absolutely loved the last scene with Marlo. Overall, the newspaper stuff was weak, Simon was just too biased, but the rest of the season came together nicely, and I'm pretty content with the season as a whole.

The last scene with Marlo was superb, I thought.

One thing I thought strange in the episode was that Marlo ordered Cheese to get muscle and go find Michael, and............nothing happens at all on that front.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The last scene with Marlo was superb, I thought.

One thing I thought strange in the episode was that Marlo ordered Cheese to get muscle and go find Michael, and............nothing happens at all on that front.

I kept waiting for that as well, but Cheese didn't have much time to do anything after his release. Seems to me that meeting would have taken place pretty quickly there-after.

[ledfloyd]

ARGH, i didn't see this. i went and hung out with my friends that are moving to arizona tomorrow. i guess they're more important than the wire. but only barely.

[ledfloyd]

thanks to some quick pirates i got to check this out.

i'll probably type up some more thoughts later. but i really liked how the serial killer plotline was wrapped up. sadly enough, i think that's probably how it would go if it happened for real. of all the guys that fell i felt worst for daniels. carcetti fucked him and the city over so he could be governor. the shot at the end of dukie tying off almost made me cry. absolutely fucking brutal. i would feel so bad if i was prezbo too, seeing he wasn't enrolled and knowing where the money went. goddammit. i'm way overdue for sleep, i have to be up in about 4 hours.

[Ezee E]

I was surprised at how well they wrapped up the series. Basically it'll all start over again too. Interesting as we were discussing that last week, only for an all-out montage of it.

I liked it a ton actually. I just wish the season had a bit more time to get there, because it was hurt a bit by it. It had some of the same flaws as Season 2 now that I think of it.

And now... I'm done with TV for a while.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'll put this in spoilers just in case someone wanders in here, but

you guys realize that McNulty and Freemon are likely headed to prison, right? No way does Marlo stay off the streets, as evidenced by his brilliant last scene. Come November, they're probably throwing both of them under the bus to try to boost crime stats again for Narice.

[Ezee E]

I'll put this in spoilers just in case someone wanders in here, but

you guys realize that McNulty and Freemon are likely headed to prison, right? No way does Marlo stay off the streets, as evidenced by his brilliant last scene. Come November, they're probably throwing both of them under the bus to try to boost crime stats again for Narice.
I'll have to watch it again to figure that out. I'm pretty sure they both could probably avoid prison in the end, even after being proven guilty.

The neat thing about Marlo's ending is that he was Barksdale and Bell mixed into one.

Now if this were on NBC... It'd be funny to see how they would've ended it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'll have to watch it again to figure that out. I'm pretty sure they both could probably avoid prison in the end, even after being proven guilty.

The neat thing about Marlo's ending is that he was Barksdale and Bell mixed into one.

Now if this were on NBC... It'd be funny to see how they would've ended it.

I see absolutely no Stringer Bell in Marlo. None.

[Ezee E]

I was still hoping to see at least someone new coming into town to take over. I remember the mention of the Mexican gangs if there were a sixth season, so that's what I was thinking may have happened.

But that's just being picky. It's one of the best series finales as far as wrapping up the essentials of what the show was all about.

[Ezee E]

I see absolutely no Stringer Bell in Marlo. None.
That business aspect at the end was completely Bell. Granted, he's more Avon in the end, but being there, in that situation, was very Bell. In the similar suit, it seemed obvious to me.

[ledfloyd]

That business aspect at the end was completely Bell. Granted, he's more Avon in the end, but being there, in that situation, was very Bell. In the similar suit, it seemed obvious to me.
The whole point of that scene, to me at least, was that Marlo couldn't hang in that environment. He ducked out and headed back to the streets.

I thought the scene with Cheese was amazing he was going on about how there's no nostalgia it's just the game the themes of the show over five seasons and boom. Brilliant.

Stan fucking Valchek?

The serial killer ultimately worked for me. Still think the newsroom felt somewhat out of place. Even if reading Simon's interview on Salon elucidated some of what he was getting at. How the newspaper doesn't tell the story of the city. All the shit that was on the Wire, they missed chasing pulitzer prizes.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That business aspect at the end was completely Bell. Granted, he's more Avon in the end, but being there, in that situation, was very Bell. In the similar suit, it seemed obvious to me.

He couldn't stomach even one meeting. He was only there to try to stay out of jail, and he immediately went back to the corner, even facing that prison time. That's not Stringer Bell. Not even close. Stringer played the businessman game for years. Marlo and String couldn't be more different.

[Sycophant]

Yeah. Stringer attempted to better the system by revolutionizing it. Marlo did everything he could to tear down those improvements for his own gain. There isn't an ounce of String in him.

[ledfloyd]

did anyone else read the david simon piece on salon? i really enjoyed it, and he did make a pretty decent defense of the newsroom stuff. even though i think he overlooks the main problem with it.

[Sycophant]

did anyone else read the david simon piece on salon? i really enjoyed it, and he did make a pretty decent defense of the newsroom stuff. even though i think he overlooks the main problem with it.The newsroom angle's biggest problem is how anemic it is. It's telling to me that I don't believe it actually pops up in episode 60 until about twenty-plus minutes in. It just didn't have that much substance, its focus was simultaneously too broad in its characters and too narrow in its plot. Forget the mustache-twirling editors; Templeton is painted far too unsympathetically and his counterpoint Gus Haynes is far too saintly. If I'm going to spend this much time with a character, I want to be given the opportunity to peer into him more.

But it was a good interview, there on Salon. He didn't get super-defensive and I can't stand defensive Simon.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I agree with you on all points except on Gus. To me, he wasn't a saint. He was somewhat cowardly. He wouldn't stand up to his bosses in the face of what he knew was true, and when he did, and the results were the exact opposite of his intentions, he did nothing but go back to work as usual (even after one of his best writers is demoted). His heart may have been in the right place at all times, but I never saw him as a saint.

[ledfloyd]

i'm with syc on this. i think the editors and templeton having everything but a cat on their laps and gus being perfect made the newsroom scenes interminably dull.

the point he tried to make, that the paper misses all the real things going on in the city, is a great point. there just had to be a better way to make it, the paper scenes felt wedged in to an already rushed season. and if he truly felt he needed to go this route to get that point across he could've at least made the day to day life in the newsroom as dramatically engaging as everything else on the wire.

at the end of the day though, it is a small blemish on what is surely one of the best sagas ever told with moving images despite being the best tv show ever. the only thing that i worry about when thinking of how future generations will receive the wire is that it seems extremely contemporary. it addresses the problems of our time and may not seem so poignant to future generations dealing with different problems.

it's not very often i can say this about a work of art, but i truly feel the wire has made me a better person. i'm now empathetic towards people that i previously never thought about or looked down upon. when i'm driving through the city and i see a bubs or a bodie i think twice about them, i have a deeper understanding of why they are who they are. hell, when i see police or politicians i have less disrespect for them and see them as being driven by forces out of their control. which i'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. but it has definitely deepened my empathy towards the dukies and d'angelos of the world.

oh, this is worth reading

http://www.hbo.com/thewire/finaleletter/

letter from david simon to us.

[Sycophant]

Amen, ledfloyd.

It's of course impossible to tell what The Wire's legacy will be. It's hard to tell with a contemporary work whether or not it will achieve classic status or simply be celebrated and forgotten. However, I suspect it has enough value of a snapshot of where America (specifically Baltimore and the major American city) was at the turn of the century to prove at the very least an interesting cultural artifact, and furthermore, I expect its value as fine drama will also assist its long term status, but prognosticating is really hard to do, especially with as critically understudied a medium as television.

[[ETM]]

I've seen the first episode of Season 1 today, and it rocked beyond description. I'm so gonna watch this.:pritch:

[ledfloyd]

;45922']I've seen the first episode of Season 1 today, and it rocked beyond description. I'm so gonna watch this.:pritch:
i envy you.

[[ETM]]

i envy you.

I've seen three now, and I can see why. Goddamn. It's fantastic.

[[ETM]]

First season over - outstanding. A punch-in-the-gut final episode, but it's the only possible way it could ever end. All in the game. Can't wait to continue.

[Morris Schæffer]

Just started season four and I love it so damn much already. Without wanting this to sound bad, but it's so damn funny the way them African-American people speak. Cool and funny at the same time. I saw episode two today and there's a scene where Senator Clay Davis utters the longest "Shaeeeeeet" I've ever heard in my life. Me and my brother were just on the floor laughing. I think I rewound that shit seven times. Prop Joe has some competition in the "shaeeet" department!

@ETM: Join the club bro!

[Ezee E]

Just started season four and I love it so damn much already. Without wanting this to sound bad, but it's so damn funny the way them African-American people speak. Cool and funny at the same time. I saw episode two today and there's a scene where Senator Clay Davis utters the longest "Shaeeeeeet" I've ever heard in my life. Me and my brother were just on the floor laughing. I think I rewound that shit seven times. Prop Joe has some competition in the "shaeeet" department!

@ETM: Join the club bro!
I like how you say them African-American people.

[[ETM]]

I now have seasons 2-4 in front of me. Can't wait.

[Morris Schæffer]

I can see how Prez's story will develop into something great. Poor chap. He's got his work cut out for him.

[Marley]

I finally broke down and bought the first season today after all the praise around this place. The pilot was pretty good albeit a little confusing. I'll definitely keep watching.

[number8]

Without wanting this to sound bad...

FAIL.

[Qrazy]

I'm a huge fan of The Wire, but does anyone else wish they had used less craptacular songs for their season finale wrap-ups?

[Qrazy]

FAIL.

LOL yeah, pretty much.

[ledfloyd]

I'm a huge fan of The Wire, but does anyone else wish they had used less craptacular songs for their season finale wrap-ups?
no, i think they're all pretty awesome songs.

[Qrazy]

no, i think they're all pretty awesome songs.

Nope.

[number8]

Apparently in BET's syndication of the second season, most of the port stuff is cut out and focus is given entirely to the little bits of Barksdale's drug trade. Wow.

[Sycophant]

Apparently in BET's syndication of the second season, most of the port stuff is cut out and focus is given entirely to the little bits of Barksdale's drug trade. Wow.That's a little... huh. Too bad for BET's audience; they're missing out on good stuff.

On the subject of season-end music montages, while I'm not always a huge fan of the songs themselves, they all serve the scenes well. With the exception of the fifth season; it felt really awkward to me.

[Qrazy]

That's a little... huh. Too bad for BET's audience; they're missing out on good stuff.

On the subject of season-end music montages, while I'm not always a huge fan of the songs themselves, they all serve the scenes well. With the exception of the fifth season; it felt really awkward to me.

There's just so much great underground hip-hop, even in the Baltimore scene, that could be used instead and would mesh much better imho with both the musical tastes of many of the central characters and as a way of summing up the stories being told... are the songs and montages now functional? Sure, could they pack much more of an emotional punch with better music? Hells yeah.