Wonder Woman 1984 (Patty Jenkins)

[Philip J. Fry]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Wonder_Woman_1984.png

Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW2E2Fnh52w

IMDb (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7126948/) / wiki (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman_1984) / RT (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/wonder_woman_1984) / Metacritic (https://www.metacritic.com/movie/wonder-woman-1984)

On HBO Max (https://www.hbomax.com/coming-soon/wonder-woman-1984)

[Dukefrukem]

All five members of my family hated this.

[Mal]

Hmmm. There's going to be another film and I think Patty Jenkins/Geoff Johns shouldn't write this story again. Jenkins also... maybe shouldn't Direct the next one. Gadot, Pine, Wiig, and Pascal are all fairly solid, though where this films tries to tell a story beyond Diana and Steve, its not always successful despite mapping out characters with actual purpose to the story. The first hour didn't work for me until the action, conflict got going- its predecessor worked well imo because Diana is in nearly every scene- and this noticeably suffers when she takes a backseat. Max Lord is an interesting character but wtf with the Egyptian conflict... mess.
Gadot/Pine's chemistry took me right back to the last film. A few scenes with them... made my heart swell with joy. And the heartache Diana experiences made me tear up. The finale is fine and ultimately I enjoyed the film, though another film structured like this is going to be a major turn-off. Shockingly I also didn't hate the Cheetah costuming. I was expecting CATS. Its not CATS.

One oddly refreshing thing nobody died?

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh there were so many odd choices here. And I'm sorry, I don't care what kind of script you've written. A superhero movie where the main superhero loses their powers, or doesn't use their powers i.e. The Wolverine, Iron Man 3, makes for a really dull super hero movie. There are so many scenes in the first half where Jenkins holds on characters for so long; You expect some kind character reveal. Whether it's Kristen Wiig trying on a dress, or Pedro Pascal brooding, the timing and pacing is really jacked up.

Is the film intentionally trying to ignore logistics and continuity from reality? Does Patty think because this is a superhero movie, she's just allowed to make things up as she goes along? In the first film there were several convenient scenes that lets Wonder Woman progress through the story. Here, everything is convenient. Max Lord has a son that shows up when the script needs him to. Steve and Diana need to get to Egypt from Washington DC, (for whatever reason to chase the bad guy, even though the bad guy is back in the DC area a day later) so how would Diana and Steve get there? With a fully fueled fighter jet that Diana just so happens to have access to of course. Did Jenkins bother to look up what the range is on a fighter jet? Spoiler alert; it isn't anywhere near 5000 miles. This scene is akin in the first movie when the crew conveniently finds a "field" "full" of German cards to approach the German occupied castle.

Max Lord is the only interesting thing about this film. But even Jenkins didn't really know what do with him. The power he obtains is certainly new to any superhero movie we've seen before, but the finale is way too reminiscing of generic beam shooting into the sky. What was Max planning to do? Destroy everything so there's literally nothing left? Why do these villains' not have a clear end game?

I didn't hate the Cheetah take. But let's not forget that Wiig is essentially playing her SNL character through the first half, and the second half is her character oddly mirroring Edward Nygma transformation into the Riddler in Batman Forever. The film basically flips the fish out of water gimmick from Diana to Steve Trevor who has been revived in the 1980s (which is a whole new discussion) and is seeing a new world from the one he left in the 40s.

Overall, it's a big step down from the first film, there's no scene similar to "No Man's Land", though Jenkins makes it very clear the scum and misogamy of all men was rampant in the 80s, and the only man who didn't hit on Diana was the one who Steve Trevor possesses. BTW, where did that guy go when Trevor took over?

[Skitch]

I'm seeing a lot of consistent negative feedback on this movie! Really surprised considering how good the first movie is. I havent seen it yet, really curious how it will play for me, as I've already voiced concerns about story elements from the trailer.

[Dukefrukem]

The first movie was good?

[Skitch]

The first movie was good?

I dont think it's odd to say the general feedback on the first Wonder Woman was positive?

[StuSmallz]

I haven't seen WW84 yet, but I was a bit mixed on the first one; (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/wonder-woman-2017/) on one hand, I liked a few of its standout sequences a lot (like the "living painting" scene of Themyscira's mythology, or the scene where she took back no man's land), and I liked Gadot's naive-yet-still-authoritative characterization of Diana, along with her strong onscreen chemistry with Pine, but on the other hand, it went through a lot of the same old Superhero movie motions without adding much of anything original to them. In that way, it ultimately felt like the Hillary Clinton campaign of Superhero movies, coasting too much on the novelty of starring a woman, without having much of anything new to add on its own terms, something I would've noticed even if it hadn't been released the same year as Logan, the biggest game-changer for the genre in nearly a decade. It was still a decent movie on the whole for what left an impression, but it ultimately should've been more ambitious than it was, IMO.

[Mal]

I dont think it's odd to say the general feedback on the first Wonder Woman was positive?

Yeah... it’s generally well-liked and heralded as the “best” non-Nolan DC movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah... it’s generally well-liked and heralded as the “best” non-Nolan DC movie.

What, really? Over Burton's?

[Mal]

What, really? Over Burton's?

Yes, even those. But I think if you put it to a poll, Batman Returns would do very well.

[transmogrifier]

Rankings!

70+
Batman Returns

60-69
Batman
The Dark Knight Rises
Birds of Prey

50-59
The Dark Knight
Wonder Woman
Man of Steel

40-49
Batman Forever
Justice League
Batman Begins

10-19
Batman and Robin
Suicide Squad

Not seen: Aquaman, Batman vs. Superman, WW84

[StuSmallz]

Yeah... it’s generally well-liked and heralded as the “best” non-Nolan DC movie.Almost; if we use the average critical score on RT as a measuring stick, Wonder Woman is still rated a couple of points below the original Christopher Reeves Superman. But yeah, besides that and TDK trilogy, it is the highest-rated major DC release on that site (including the Burton Batmans), as far as I can tell.
What, really? Over Burton's?Well, if you use the average rating on Letterboxd, Batman '89 is one point higher than WW, and Returns is tied, so it varies by source.
Rankings!

70+
Batman Returns


60-69
Batman
The Dark Knight Rises
Birds of Prey


50-59
The Dark Knight
Wonder Woman
Man of Steel


40-49
Batman Forever
Justice League
Batman Begins


10-19
Batman and Robin
Suicide Squad


Not seen: Aquaman, Batman vs. Superman, WW84Out of the ones I've seen...


Superman: 8.5
Superman 2: 7
Batman: 6.5-ish (maybe just a 6, it's been a long time)
Batman Returns: 8
Batman Forever 6-ish (if I'm being nice)
Batman & Robin: 4 if I'm rating it as an actual movie, but it's probably at least an 8 for the so-bad-it's-good entertainment value
Batman Begins: 8
Superman Returns: 7.5
The Dark Knight: 10
Watchmen: 6.5
The Dark Knight Rises: 8.25
Man Of Steel: 6.5
Batman Vs. Superman: 5 (if I'm being nice)
Suicide Squad: 5 (see above)
Wonder Woman: 7.5
Justice League: 6
Aquaman: 6
Shazam!: 7.5
Joker: 8

Also, I'm glad you don't hate TDKR considering that some hyperbolic people did, but no way is it better than TDK.

:P

[Dukefrukem]

All DC Movies Ranked (https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/dc-comic-book-movies-ranked/detail/)

Live Action DC Movies Ranked (https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/dc-live-action-comic-book-movies-ranked/detail/)

DCEU Movies Ranked (https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/dceu-movies-ranked/detail/) <-BoP likely moving down the ranks

Animated DC Movies Ranked (https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/dc-comic-book-animated-movies-ranked/detail/)

[megladon8]

Anything other than Superman in the number 1 spot is factually incorrect and considered slander, libel and a war crime.

[Mal]

Anything other than Superman in the number 1 spot is factually incorrect and considered slander, libel and a war crime.

Nooo Superman II! Donner Cut!

[Dukefrukem]

Nearly half of all “retail” HBO Max subscribers (that is, people paying $15 per month) watched the superhero movie on opening day

Therefore WWIII is being fast tracked.

https://pressroom.warnermedia.com/us/media-release/warner-bros-pictures-fast-tracks-development-wonder-woman-3

[megladon8]

Nooo Superman II! Donner Cut!

I wish we could have had that as the real canon film. So good.

[Skitch]

I don't know what DC movie I like best. Interesting question. Hmmm.

[Pop Trash]

Anything other than Superman in the number 1 spot is factually incorrect and considered slander, libel and a war crime.

Yes. Superman I / II / III is the correct answer. Why yes I do think Superman III is very good! Superman IV not so much, but even that has its cheesy Cannon production charms.

[StuSmallz]

Anything other than Superman in the number 1 spot is factually incorrect and considered slander, libel and a war crime.Eh, it's #2 for me; doesn't quite reach the heights of TDK, but I wouldn't expect the first major, "modern" Superhero movie to do so, and it is the foundation on which so much of the genre has been built on since, so I definitely respect it a lot for that.

Nooo Superman II! Donner Cut!I still need to see that one; the only version of it I have seen is the theatrical cut, with all that lame "comic relief" they added in : / Still probably better than trying to have Supes pal around with Richard Pryor, though.

[Skitch]

Yes. Superman I / II / III is the correct answer. Why yes I do think Superman III is very good! Superman IV not so much, but even that has its cheesy Cannon production charms.

I cannot believe you think Superman 3 is good. I mean, I think Superman 3 is good but I cant believe you think Superman 3 is good lol. Hi5

[Dukefrukem]

Yes. Superman I / II / III is the correct answer. Why yes I do think Superman III is very good! Superman IV not so much, but even that has its cheesy Cannon production charms.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiN0Lwvi7CA&ab_channel=jar22880

These movies may have been revolutionary for their time, but to me, the sequels are equivalent to what A Trip to the Moon represents.

[Spun Lepton]

I did enjoy WW84, but I have traditionally been more forgiving of superhero movies, take that however you will.

It did seem like a slight step down from the original. There were a few moments that made me giggle, like the chase scene with the trucks -- WW pushing the truck sideways down the highway made me a bit giddy. I also liked all the action at the White House. Some of the CG seemed a bit rubbery. There was one moment where WW rescues a couple children and rolls with them, and they were very obviously dummies. There were several moments that laid on the schmaltz a little too much. But, nothing really bogged the movie down to the point where I wasn't having some fun. I really loved Cheetah's final look. Their fight was the best fight in the movie, minus a bit of the CG jankiness. I did find myself wishing there was more of her final "form" in the movie.

7/10 from me. I also gave the first WW a 7/10 in case that makes a difference.

[megladon8]

Christopher Reeve remains unmatched when it comes to superhero casting in live action.

Only one that even comes close is RDJ.

[DavidSeven]

I thought this was a disaster. And I say this is as someone who thinks the first Wonder Woman is better than any Marvel movie and easily better than any non-Nolan DC movie. Nothing about it really works, but the most amazing thing to me is that a committee of executives actually greenlit a script with such an insanely stupid premise and absolutely no polish to compensate for it. This is both artless and not entertaining at all. A real shock given that many of the same people are involved.

[amberlita]

So, what exactly is Wonder Woman's place in the world during this movie? Nobody seems to talk about her or know about her despite that fact that she's presumably been doing her thing for the last 60 years. Why is she not a really big deal already? She just under the radar spending all her time thwarting petty criminals in the D.C. area? It ain't like she changes her look between being Diana and being WW; I don't think (delayed) taking out of mall security cameras can explain it. There's been a lot of big real-life shit that went down between the first movie and this one that she could've intervened upon, which is part of the logical flaw in having her turn the tide of World War 1 and then jumping ahead many decades.

I really love Pedro Pascal but man this was a bad performance. I have no idea why people are saying Max Lord and PP are the best thing about this movie. The entire premise of this film is intolerably stupid enough - and the Max Lord character quite poorly written - it didn't need on top of that a hammed up performance that makes the Max Lord character totally inaccessible. He lacks any clear motivation as written and no humanity as performed, and yet the entire ending of this film rests on him having a change of heart.

Gal Gadot is still awesome though. I don't blame Barbara for using her one wish to be more like her.

[Skitch]

I guess I'll do running commentary.


-oh man...I dig the opening competetion scene. Good stuff.
-ffs...I GET IT. ITS THE 80S. THE ACTUAL 80S WEREN'T THIS 80S. I KNOW, I WAS THERE.
-I love comics (I lean DC), but I'm no expert. I don't really know much of anything about Cheetah and her history with WW
-Barbara seems like a genuinely good person. I'm curious how it goes bad for her. The casting here feels right.
-What city are we in? Is there a city WW is known to inhabit?
-I dont know much about Maxwell Lord either outside of some cartoons. Where does everyone stand on Pedro Pascal these days? I haven't figured out if hes actually a dick or he just doesn't suffer fools.
-Oh the Trump shade is...subtle. *roll eyes* I have no love of Trump but for crying out loud, I'm an unpaid writer and I could've done a little better than that
-My biggest concern (just going from the trailer) was how the fuck is Steve back. What the damn hell was that? Suddenly hes just magic rocked back to life in some other dudes body? I don't know if I can think of a worse way to bring Steve back. Like you literally went the extra mile to make it a thousand times more ridiculous than I couldve possibly imagined. Cloning wouldve been better. Wait...but he looks like the other guy? This is insane.
-Is Chris Pine in his 50s? I thought I was older than him
-oh hey guys its the 80s again. Kristin Wigg is a smokeshow
-so max becomes wishmaster? thats kind of interesting
-steve clothes-show is a complete waste of time. would make a funny blooper bit
-what city are they in?
-trash can joke not funny, cut it
-ah so max is dwight schrute with power. "AND BRING ME MY VITAMINS." TERRIFYING
-oof, bad cut there. hes holding magazine then it magically becomes plane boarding pass.
-okay the radar thing was kinda funny
-no pilot would AIM to fly though fireworks. what is he, a dumbass?
-at this point this movie is playing more like a dream Diana had after too much to drink
-hr20, still dont really feel like this movie need steve trevor in any capacity
-okay the highway chase scene is pretty dope
-why are there kids playing on the road? fucking idiots
-ah theres some New Gods stuff in here. hints to whats coming in that movie. Maybe?
-this is a shadow of the first movie. sheesh
-ha this wishing shit is kind of getting interesting
-and now its getting ridiculous and kind of embarrassing
-SERIOUSLY HOW OLD IS CHRIS PINE
-hr40 green lantern is better intentioned than this
-i cant believe this, but I want to turn this off. I OWN JONAH HEX ON BLURAY AND I WANT TO TURN THIS OFF holy fuck i'm bored
-pedro pascal is pretty terrible in this, whether hes a dick in real life or not
-monkeys paw? joy and humanity? what is it costing you? what? WHO WROTE THIS SHIT, this is some high school level emo
-suicide squad is a really bad movie and i've watched it like six times. i have 30 minutes left of ww84 and i've wanted to turn it off for like half an hour
-this is painful. flying around in the sky i guess gets you magic armor and for no explainable reason she becomes full cheetah. i mean it looks cool and all, but what the shit
-now max lord has force powers. this is the weirdest Wishmaster sequel yet
-about halfway through i was like okay, this about on level of shazam. This is by far the worst DCEU movie, sweet christmas
-how do you fuck up this bad? like I know BvS isn't popular and I get it, its not everyones cup of tea, but have you seen this shit? holy god this is a trainwreck
-am i to believe this movie will ever end? this is by far the worst DCEU movie
-you shouldn't love him, kid. hes a terrible father and a terrible person. i can only assume you will become a villian with such terrible parentage
-gal gadots closeups look like shes on a green screen stage everytime
-oh look, random dude is back. where did steve go? guess we'll never know. welcome back random dude
-okay good she can fly now. glad we got that out of the way.

[Skitch]

So, what exactly is Wonder Woman's place in the world during this movie? Nobody seems to talk about her or know about her despite that fact that she's presumably been doing her thing for the last 60 years. Why is she not a really big deal already? She just under the radar spending all her time thwarting petty criminals in the D.C. area? It ain't like she changes her look between being Diana and being WW; I don't think (delayed) taking out of mall security cameras can explain it. There's been a lot of big real-life shit that went down between the first movie and this one that she could've intervened upon, which is part of the logical flaw in having her turn the tide of World War 1 and then jumping ahead many decades.

I really love Pedro Pascal but man this was a bad performance. I have no idea why people are saying Max Lord and PP are the best thing about this movie. The entire premise of this film is intolerably stupid enough - and the Max Lord character quite poorly written - it didn't need on top of that a hammed up performance that makes the Max Lord character totally inaccessible. He lacks any clear motivation as written and no humanity as performed, and yet the entire ending of this film rests on him having a change of heart.

Gal Gadot is still awesome though. I don't blame Barbara for using her one wish to be more like her.

Pedro was terrible in this. Kristin Wigg seemed like the only one committed to this. Gal was good too

[DavidSeven]

Yes, Steve flying a machine he's literally never even seen before directly into fireworks for kicks was a special kind of dumb.

The opening scene, the introductory elements with Wiig, and Gadot's natural charisma and the chemistry with Pine are the only things that were good here.

[Skitch]

As the resident DC defender I 100% expected to disagree with the haters.

WW84 was so bad. There were a couple good scenes, but overall, worst film of the DCEU imo. I've lambasted Suicide Squad in the past, and I've watched that like five times. I don't know that I can watch this again. Thats a special kind of bad to this viewer. Its especially painful because it seems like the cuttable scenes are so obvious. There was ZERO point to having Steve Trevor in this film. Theres 30 minutes right there.

Theres a good movie in there somewhere...we got the one with loads of deleted scenes.

[Peng]

First film's earnestness runs right smack into going-bigger sequelitism, so what was winningly guileless there -- when focused narrowly on Diana's journey -- now turns very sloppy in plotting when met with much more sprawling material. It also leads to more than a few naively misguided areas, in which the most viral ones -- what happens after Steve appears and the whole Cairo subplot -- have been well-documented and not unjustifiably dragged by now. Still, that first-film earnestness from Jenkins, Gadot, and Pine still remains somewhat at its core (especially in scenes with the latter two), and Pascal and Wiig are fun additions. Nothing comes close to the No Man's Land sequence (one can see the attempt with the Cairo action scene, but it whiffs), but that first flying scene has some of the same raw heroic awe feeling, and I like the climatic fight here more than WW's Snyderish one. 6/10

[Mal]

https://youtu.be/HhkBleDMvB0
This didn’t disappoint!

[Dukefrukem]

Can't wait. Watching it now.

[Dukefrukem]

Can't wait. Watching it now.

YES! They also picked on the Jim Carrey reference from my review. CHECK

Edit: and the jet fuel in the fighter jet. CHECK

[Wryan]

This scene is akin in the first movie when the crew conveniently finds a "field" "full" of German cards to approach the German occupied castle.

ffs not this shit again :D

I was told this movie was total shit and that the Cheetah CGI was weapons-grade awful. Actually, it's just kinda meh to okay and the Cheetah CGI was fine. We can see what they wanted to do with the movie, but there's quite a bit that just doesn't land. The plot requires WW to lose her powers gradually for reasons unknown instead of more or less immediately. Did Cheetah get a second wish or something in order to achieve her final form? Is that allowed or did we skip over that part? I grant you wanting an inspirational message of uplift and hope, but billions of people selflessly giving their wishes back aint happening, ever. Also, the parts visualizing WW's powers looked kinda wobbly this time. They still aren't really nailing it completely.

It's a downgrade, but the parts that worked worked pretty well. Pine's a charisma-generating machine. The scene where she learns to fly did it for me, I can't lie, but did she just forget about it 30 years later? There's a lot of frayed edges here. Cute post-credits cameo, laughably and immediately undercut by "BTW DID YOU KNOW LYNDA CARTER DID A CAMEO???" 0.2 seconds later.

[Wryan]

Also I'm a little ticked they tried to "schlub" Kristoffer Polaha. Dude's a perfectly good-looking bro.

[Dukefrukem]

Pine should have been cut from the whole movie. He served no purpose.

[Skitch]

Pine should have been cut from the whole movie. He served no purpose.

Yep said that, agreed

[Mal]

Pine should have been cut from the whole movie. He served no purpose.

Eye candy, definitely a purpose.

[Dukefrukem]

1348538648132689921

[Skitch]

Ugh.

[Ivan Drago]

Well, it's as bonkers as the movies that came out in the eighties, I'll say that much. And how they incorporated the invisible jet was a nice touch, as are some of the VFX scenes, like Diana flying through the clouds and swinging from lightning bolt to lightning bolt. Cheesy, sure, but they looked amazing. But the first half is a hodgepodge of cartoonish and grounded tones, pacing issues, and lame jokes while the second half is a melting pot of corny WTFery and a hamfisted message with a script that doesn’t cater to the strengths of its cast. Kristen Wiig is a hilarious comedienne, so to see her in something as campy as this without letting her be funny is all sorts of insulting, just like certain plot developments that nuke Diana of any agency as a character. Credit to Pedro Pascal for taking giant bites of scenery when he could, but WW84 isn’t a movie. It’s a 200 million dollar after-school special.

[Grouchy]

I liked two scenes in this: Invisible Jet origin story and the farewell. The bad far outweighs the good. The '80s reconstruction was overdone to the point of being laughable, the plot asks for WAY too much suspension of disbelief and it's longer than necessary. The opening scene in Themyscira, among others, was disconcerting. Any sensible editor would have that removed from an already bloated film. A lot of you are saying Steve Trevor serves no purpose, but... the romantic tragedy was a big part of the original and I think his arc here gave Diana some closure, even if the reasoning for his brief resurrection was baffling. The one character that I thought could have been saved for another sequel was Cheetah. No fault of Wiig but she has little to do with the main plot of the movie, which is "Maxwell Lord meets Wishmaster". She's as useful to the plot as Bane was to Batman & Robin.

So, yeah... a missed oportunity for DC. I feel bad for Patty Jenkins because I believe she got burned by marketing. The amount of click-bait articles I saw nearing the film's release lauding her as a genius was at the very least premature.

[DFA1979]

Huh I really enjoyed this movie. Although I do agree that Cheetah should have been saved for the third movie and yeah they could have cut down the running time a bit. No reason for this to be 2 hours, 30 minutes. I liked the humor and I didn't mind Steve coming back since it made sense in the weird plot line. My favorite part was the Invisible jet among the fireworks scene, and Wonder Woman swinging on the lightning. The wing metal suit looked pretty boss. I think the movie couldn't decide if Max was a villain or not until the White House scene, though.