WandaVision (Marvel)

[Ezee E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9J2ecsSpo

This looks pretty interesting. I'd take this over Black Widow.

[Dukefrukem]

Wonder where they are going with it though...

[Ezee E]

Wonder where they are going with it though...

I was doing that while walking my dog and imagined the idea of the villain Arcade trapping them somewhere, and they had to figure their way out.

[Spun Lepton]

I suspect the whole season will be Wanda's doing. She's warping reality to bring back Vision somehow.

BTW, one more week until the premiere! I'm very excited.

[Dukefrukem]

It's the beginning of getting some kind of Marvel Studio's release every week for the next 50 weeks.

[Ezee E]

Is this dumping all at once or taking a Mandalorian type of release?

I was also picturing a villain like Arcade being at the helm of it all... but I think Spun's idea makes more sense.

[Dukefrukem]

Is this dumping all at once or taking a Mandalorian type of release?

I was also picturing a villain like Arcade being at the helm of it all... but I think Spun's idea makes more sense.

Weekly. Right up until The Falcon and The Winter Soldier in March 19, 2021. Which goes right up to May 7th Black Widdow, which will follow with Loki in May, 2021, which will go right into Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings in July 4, 2021, which will roll into What If...? in Summer of 2021, which will likely roll into either Hawkeye 2021 or Ms. Marvel leading up until Eternals on November 5th, which will run until Spider-man 3 on Dec. 17, 2021.

What a year.

There's also a very strong possibility Black Widow will be a Disney+ release after Marvel Studios renegotiated the contacts with all film makers after the WB debacle.

[Ezee E]

Weekly. Right up until The Falcon and The Winter Soldier in March 19, 2021. Which goes right up to May 7th Black Widdow, which will follow with Loki in May, 2021, which will go right into Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings in July 4, 2021, which will roll into What If...? in Summer of 2021, which will likely roll into either Hawkeye 2021 or Ms. Marvel leading up until Eternals on November 5th, which will run until Spider-man 3 on Dec. 17, 2021.

What a year.

There's also a very strong possibility Black Widow will be a Disney+ release after Marvel Studios renegotiated the contacts with all film makers after the WB debacle.

Brilliant on Disney+. I've been changing services here and there when I get caught up with what I want.

I'll probably do the same with Disney+ since some of those show I don't care about. I mostly just want Mandalorian and Soul.

[DFA1979]

This looks good.

[Morris Schæffer]

Reviews are real good. But this is only 6 episodes?

[Dukefrukem]

Reviews are real good. But this is only 6 episodes?

9 I think.

Loki is 6

[Peng]

I much enjoy the goofiness of this, especially the way the show still leans into their powers for the sitcom homage plotlines. And Olsen is just radiant here, pure star charisma.

[Skitch]

Didn't care for ep2 as much as 1.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh I'd imagine these first two episodes are to get the audience to ask "what?" and the stinger at the end of episode 2 is there to get us to ask "ok where are they going with this?"

They are obviously trying to introduce Sword and/or AIM.

[Mal]

Its a cute, harmless show. The casting is great, with Kathryn Hanh stealing every moment.

[Skitch]

Did anybody recognize the symbol on the side of the toy helicopter? I'm not quizzing, I don't know lol

[Dukefrukem]

Did anybody recognize the symbol on the side of the toy helicopter? I'm not quizzing, I don't know lol

yeh it was the same one on the notepad at the very end of episode one. It's S.W.O.R.D, which of course was teased at the end of Captain Marvel.

[Skitch]

yeh it was the same one on the notepad at the very end of episode one. It's S.W.O.R.D, which of course was teased at the end of Captain Marvel.

ooohh gotcha

[Spun Lepton]

Unsure whether the faux-commercials hold clues, but the watch in Ep2 has a Hydra symbol on its face.

[Skitch]

This might turn into something, but three episodes in, this is Star Wars Holiday Special level bad.

[Dukefrukem]

Disagree

[Skitch]

Bruv... the laugh track? This is shit. I still see how it may turn dark cool storyline, but right now its crap imo.

[Peng]

It may be from the 70s-era style that this one parodies/homages to, but the ep doesn't feel as charming a sitcom throwback as the previous two, with a more stop-start rhythm. Olsen is still having quite a showcase though, and Dottie's husband's "Oh thank god" after the blackout does get to me.

[Mal]

Cute again, but hollow 3rd episode. About 10 minutes of show stretched out over 20ish.

[Irish]

agree with the criticisms.

i thought the lame sitcom schtick would last for maybe one episode before they jumped into the full story but ... nope. they burned ~90 minutes of screentime and haven't told the audience any more than we learned from the 2 minute preview trailer a few months ago.

The two leads aren't comedic actors and they're floundering. you can see the wheels turning and hear the gears grinding; they're both too aware of the gag. hahn is the standout, which isn't too surprising because she actually has experience in comedy and knows how to punch up bad material. all the energy in the show comes from her and she isn't on screen long enough to carry it.

who thought this was a good idea? they're doing like this weak ass sherman-schwartz-style sitcom stuff but the shows they're parodying were, for the most part, waaaaay better. like, if you pilfer dick van dyke's sets then you better up your game --- and not force the audience to sit through over an hour of constant laugh tracks.

the teases at the end of each episode are also bad, because again they don't tell the audience anything new.

here's hoping baby yoda pops up for a cameo.

[Spun Lepton]

Bruv... the laugh track? This is shit. I still see how it may turn dark cool storyline, but right now its crap imo.

Isn't the laugh track part of the "old sitcom" theme, though? Seems appropriate to me. Agreed that I think 3 episodes feels a little long to keep us hanging without any decent answers, though. We should have at least had some kind of good lead at the end of the last episode.

10 episodes
3 acts
first 3 eps are act one
next 5 are act two
final 2 are act three

Act One should wrap up with at least one big question answered, IMO.

That said, I am still enjoying it.

[StuSmallz]

Really liked this vid on the show's Lynchian touches:


https://youtu.be/kF5tkIXjtE0

[Dukefrukem]

The mythology was expanded in the latest episode.

My theory is wanda is just grieving.

[Skitch]

Bruv... the laugh track? This is shit. I still see how it may turn dark cool storyline, but right now its crap imo.

Ok...so to be honest, I turned this ep off halfway thru. Watched all now. Took a major turn that, I predicted, could make this show really dark and cool. The end of this ep tilted to that projection.

2 minutes into next ep and oh yes, this is picking up.

[Skitch]

My theory is wanda is just grieving.

Yah I had same thought. Not trying to be like one upping or something, just a thought grain in back of my head when trailer dropped. Because how else with all the weirdness and Vision back....

holy shit now what'shername from Thor is back?? That's a kind of a get, right?

[Skitch]

As a qualified confined space competent person, I have questions about this operation :D

[Dukefrukem]

holy shit now what'shername from Thor is back?? That's a kind of a get, right?

Yeh it's really cool for them to bring back characters like this. Because let's be honest. Having her come back in Thor Ragnarok just for sake of her character being around for the first two movies, wouldn't have made any sense.

[StuSmallz]

But where is Sif??

[Dukefrukem]

But where is Sif??

Showing up for THor 4?

[Skitch]

Ep 5...whoa whoa whoa wait

[Peng]

In that moment I was like

http://24.media.tumblr.com/0314c84341e1b6de30bb1989a1eda1 c3/tumblr_mqrn7w0ouP1r72ouro1_500 .gif

[Mal]

ehh the show is ok, not for me I guess. I can't believe they spent like $10 mil an episode!!

[[ETM]]

I wonder how much is the salaries.

[Dukefrukem]

The ending?

[Spun Lepton]

First hints of the multiverse and Feige's plan to incorporate the Fox and Sony universes into the MCU. Love it!

[Peng]

Was also a bit mesmerized throughout by how on-point (and ghastly) Vision’s 80s hair looks.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Etg5noVXMAMnZ3p?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Dukefrukem]

First hints of the multiverse and Feige's plan to incorporate the Fox and Sony universes into the MCU. Love it!

Yeh. Seems like it's going to be a theme across all the properties and not just a Doctor Strange or Spider-man thing.

[Spun Lepton]

Yeh. Seems like it's going to be a theme across all the properties and not just a Doctor Strange or Spider-man thing.

Gotta incorporate the X-men, Fantastic 4 and Deadpool into the MCU in a fun and interesting way, right? The spectacle is real and I'm ready for it. :D

[[ETM]]

Was also a bit mesmerized throughout by how on-point (and ghastly) Vision’s 80s hair looks.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Etg5noVXMAMnZ3p?format=jpg&name=900x900

The whole thing was ghastly, especially the 70s period. I hated everything about that time. :D I was amused by Olsen "playing" on a parody of a show that made her siblings famous, though.

[Dukefrukem]

;633373']The whole thing was ghastly, especially the 70s period. I hated everything about that time. :D I was amused by Olsen "playing" on a parody of a show that made her siblings famous, though.

We haven't reached the 90s yet.

[[ETM]]

Full House is from the 80s.

[Skitch]

Well, both, I believe

[Ezee E]

Getting started with this.

Episode I seems pretty daring to do for an entire episode. Like Irish would be screaming that no fan base would want this for thirty minutes (twenty-ish).

[Wryan]

I'm caught up to E5 atm. Speaking as someone who mainlined Nick at Nite shows from about 12 to 18, I think they nailed the tone of '50s and '60s pretty well. That they aren't peerless comedic pros still works to keep up the internal tension of the wider facade within. Whether it's Wanda doing all of this or someone else, the forced awkwardness works well enough and contrasts fantastically with the "breaking" moments. Overall, tho, it's just okay so far. Hahn is definitely a standout.

I kind of hope that Vision is still super dead and she's just been puppeteering his corpse around all this time. That would make for a dark and effective reveal. But I don't think they have the stones for that.

[Wryan]

There are wild inconsistencies tho, like how given the layout of the house, there's no way Vision and the neighbors didn't see or hear Monica being force-catapulted through walls and fences and whatnot and her fixing things before he comes back in...unless she just controls literally everything, every atom, at all times and was able to hide that from their sight/awareness. Which is a bit of a stretch.

[Wryan]

I really liked that break with Hahn where she asks to do another take. So good.

[Spun Lepton]

I kind of hope that Vision is still super dead and she's just been puppeteering his corpse around all this time. That would make for a dark and effective reveal. But I don't think they have the stones for that.

The fact that he has scenes alone where he's figuring out what's going on suggests he's sentient and autonomous.

[Skitch]

But I don't think they have the stones for that.

https://i.imgur.com/GrrOUoS.jpg

[DFA1979]

I finished Mando so this is up next.

[Ezee E]

Second episode, even better.

This weird limbo world that they're in may be my favorite thing about the MCU. I like that I have no idea where this is going and that Olsen/Bettany have tremendous chemistry while doing it.

[Dukefrukem]

Second episode, even better.

This weird limbo world that they're in may be my favorite thing about the MCU. I like that I have no idea where this is going and that Olsen/Bettany have tremendous chemistry while doing it.

Yeh that's why I don't understand the hate. It's so 'right field' from what the MCU has previously done that it's almost intoxicating.

[[ETM]]

There is no "hate", just a bunch of entitled people with no patience. If you can't stand two short episodes of TV references that will definitely lead somewhere pretty soon, I don't know what to tell you.

[Skitch]

I liked the first 2. Ep3 started to grate on me (I hate laugh tracks, even used ironically). But ep4 got me back in.

Edit: I was so irritated at ep3 I had to stop half way through lol.

[Ezee E]

I liked the first 2. Ep3 started to grate on me (I hate laugh tracks, even used ironically). But ep4 got me back in.

Edit: I was so irritated at ep3 I had to stop half way through lol.

Actually loved episode 3 on my end. The reality is unavoidable as the "tv age" gets closer and closer to reality.

*oops* I never actually saw Age of Ultron that was the start of these two characters. Watching some clips afterwards, it's funny seeing how much more interesting each character is now compared to what they were at the beginning of the MCU.

Is there a reason she had an accent at the start of it all, or an explanation of how it got dropped btw?

[Spun Lepton]

Is there a reason she had an accent at the start of it all, or an explanation of how it got dropped btw?

It fades a bit as the MCU goes on. This show does address it in a somewhat creative and subtle way in Ep5.

[DFA1979]

I liked the first episode. The 50s sitcom stuff made me laugh a bit. This feels weird enough to keep me hooked.

[Ezee E]

OH, DAMN Episode 4.

I mean, in a way, it's the saddest thing to see this alternate world that Wanda has created for herself, knowing what's actually out there.

I can't imagine the other tv series are going to be this creative.

[Dukefrukem]

OH, DAMN Episode 4.

I mean, in a way, it's the saddest thing to see this alternate world that Wanda has created for herself, knowing what's actually out there.

I can't imagine the other tv series are going to be this creative.

I think it was episode 3 where we actually got a look at dead vision. That was spooky and just shows how much she's grieving.

[Ezee E]

All caught up, and I read through the entire thread.

Again, I'm absolutely loving everything about this show. I was picking it up at the talent show, but this is one of the better approaches to not only grief, but also, "What could've been" that I can think of. Olson is absolutely nailing it by enjoying her imagined-created world, but can't stop the reality that's coming.

I'm glad that the first and second episode were almost entirely unaffected and we got to see the created world without mostly a blip.

This is likely going to only be a one season approach, so I'll enjoy it while I can. It wouldn't surprise me if they throw in Magneto at the end and that becomes the highlight for everyone...

And here's to hoping for a 90's-Seinfeld approach next week with Vision as Kramer.

[Dukefrukem]

And here's to hoping for a 90's-Seinfeld approach next week with Vision as Kramer.

OH YES PLEASE

[Irish]

Tbh that's already waaaaay too imaginative for "Wandavision."

The episodes aren't quite based on old shows. It's more like they're sticking to a specific formula -- family based sitcoms -- and borrowing production elements from them and literally nothing else. Not the characters, not specific dialogue or scenes, not any one scenario.

Eg: The first episode had nothing to do with "Dick Van Dyke" outside the sets. Likewise the "Brady Bunch" and "Family Ties" stuff. None of the characters or situations from those old shows appeared in a recognizable form. (Well, maybe "Bewitched," but only in the broadest sense.) So even if they riffed on "Seinfeld's" setting, Kramer wouldn't appear because he would be too specific a reference.

They won't do "Seinfeld," though, because it wasn't a family sitcom. There's no way to plug Vision and Wanda into that show's format.

What's weird is that Disney owns ABC television, and therefore presumably the rights of a shit ton of old sitcoms. They could have done a line by line, shot for shot remake of "Donna Reed" or "Bewitched" or "Three's Company" or "Happy Days" and that would have been vastly more interesting than what they're actually doing.

They could have made genuinely weird pop art out of this ... but for some reason chose to play it safe and do the most anodyne thing possible.

[Ezee E]

Not sure what 90s family shows come to mind that wasn't already done last episode.

[Dukefrukem]

Not sure what 90s family shows come to mind that wasn't already done last episode.

Family Matters, Full House, they won't touch Cosby, Fresh Prince of Bell Air come to mind.

Friends if they are really ballsy.

[Irish]

"Fresh Prince" was NBC. Likely Disney won't go near it either.

"Family Matters" was ABC, but I don't think they will borrow from a well known black family sitcom and re-populate it almost exclusively with white actors, not in 2021.

My bet is "Full House," because this show loves the meta joke.

But I also think that's asking the wrong question, because the meta joke and show-within-a-show is the least interesting part of this.

I want to know how and if they're gonna walk back making Wanda a major villain, outside a few lines of throwaway dialogue.

ETA: Also if they're gonna retcon Vision back to the living.

[[ETM]]

Didn't they touch Full House already? That opening title sequence in the last episode was almost 1/1 Full House.

[Dukefrukem]

;633582']Didn't they touch Full House already? That opening title sequence in the last episode was almost 1/1 Full House.

No it wasn't. That was 100% Family Ties. (80s)

[[ETM]]

I watched a whole bunch of Family Ties when I was a kid, and completely forgot pretty much everything about it. Yeah, they did the portrait thing, but the picnic on the grass in the end? I'm kinda thinking they did both, and will skip to something completely 90s next.

[Ezee E]

;633588']I watched a whole bunch of Family Ties when I was a kid, and completely forgot pretty much everything about it. Yeah, they did the portrait thing, but the picnic on the grass in the end? I'm kinda thinking they did both, and will skip to something completely 90s next.

Agreed. Plus the twins is basically Full House already.

Home IMprovement.

[Wryan]

Just popping in to say that while Uncle Phil justifiably got a lot of praise, I always feel sad that Carl Winslow is never really mentioned in the same breath. I watched way more FM than Fresh Prince, and Carl was like a second father figure to me almost. I love him so much. Even if Jaleel White got all the ink and chatter, I always enjoyed watching Carl/RVJ work more.

[DFA1979]

I love Family Matters even if the show jumped the shark in the last season.

[Ezee E]

I love Family Matters even if the show jumped the shark in the last season.

How'd they jump? I can't recall the seasons, but I feel like Urkel went through portals and stuff.

[StuSmallz]

I love Family Matters even if the show jumped the shark in the last season.To be fair, there's a good reason for that:


https://youtu.be/wb3BuqUnxAU

[Wryan]

With E6, the amount of winking is getting a little high, especially with the introduction of Pietro. Also, now that it's clear Hayward wants Vision (or the re-created Mind Stone), why would he invite Monica into all this only to later expel her? He couldn't have presumed she would wind up inside, if he needed her there for some reason. Also, how many episodes are left? Four? Five? They are spending a lot of time dancing around the "mystery" when I'd rather them deal with Wanda's trauma. They had a moment where she sits down to talk about it, but it's cut off after all of ten seconds. They're too eager to cut away to the gimmick. Hopefully the last few episodes can be dedicated more fully to the core of the issues.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't think any of us saw Malcom in the Middle.

[Skitch]

I don't think Vision is surviving this show. If they have any balls at all, he won't.

[Irish]

Nah, they gave themselves an out with Vision this past episode.



If they intended Vision to remain dead, he would have dropped the second he hit the open air of the real world. Instead, they laid the groundwork for New Vision to replace Dead Vision in the continuity.

This is why Kat Dennings is on the show, to explain why New Vision is legit and (eventually) no longer dissipates outside of Wanda's influence.

[Wryan]

I thought Kat Dennings was on the show so they could riff on 2 Broke Girls.

jk marvel pls don't do that

[Ezee E]

Wonder if Vision could accidentally be reanimated like Quiksilver.

[Ezee E]

Going to guess next episode will be the last one to represent a sitcom.

[Spun Lepton]

I don't think Vision is surviving this show. If they have any balls at all, he won't.

No way. This whole series is setup to bring Vision back from the dead. I'm left wondering if they're going to bring Quicksilver back, too. I don't think anybody, including the film makers, are fooling themselves into thinking these are high art.

[Ezee E]

No way. This whole series is setup to bring Vision back from the dead. I'm left wondering if they're going to bring Quicksilver back, too. I don't think anybody, including the film makers, are fooling themselves into thinking these are high art.

It's setting up the Doctor Strange movie plenty well with the rumors/casting of all previous Spider-Men, etc.

[Dukefrukem]

What's really weird that he still has the mind stone in this series.

[Skitch]

What's really weird that he still has the mind stone in this series.

...which is what leads me to believe hes entirely Wanda's creation.

[Ezee E]

...which is what leads me to believe hes entirely Wanda's creation.

His body got pulled from wherever it was at. It's just... recreated? Much like her own brother that she may have done the same?

[Skitch]

His body got pulled from wherever it was at. It's just... recreated? Much like her own brother that she may have done the same?

I'm speculating. I think I know as much as anyone else in the show....which is to say, nothing lol

[Dukefrukem]

His body got pulled from wherever it was at. It's just... recreated? Much like her own brother that she may have done the same?

No. For Pietro when he arrived at the door, they made a point for her to say " I didn't do this" or "that's not me" implying that Pietro showed up entirely on his own... probably the work of

mephisto

There seems to be some devilish themes going on. And with Kathryn Hahn dressed up as a witch in the last episode, and her trying to find her necklace (when Vision woke her from her "spell") that she was wearing in every scene prior, kind of like Melisandre's necklace in Game of Thrones.

https://thedirect.s3.amazonaws.com/media/article_full/hanpos.jpg

[Spun Lepton]

No. For Pietro when he arrived at the door, they made a point for her to say " I didn't do this" or "that's not me" implying that Pietro showed up entirely on his own... probably the work of

mephisto

There seems to be some devilish themes going on. And with Kathryn Hahn dressed up as a witch in the last episode, and her trying to find her necklace (when Vision woke her from her "spell") that she was wearing in every scene prior, kind of like Melisandre's necklace in Game of Thrones.

More speculation about Agnes here:
https://nerdist.com/article/wandavision-agnes-theories/

[Ezee E]

No. For Pietro when he arrived at the door, they made a point for her to say " I didn't do this" or "that's not me" implying that Pietro showed up entirely on his own... probably the work of

mephisto

There seems to be some devilish themes going on. And with Kathryn Hahn dressed up as a witch in the last episode, and her trying to find her necklace (when Vision woke her from her "spell") that she was wearing in every scene prior, kind of like Melisandre's necklace in Game of Thrones.

https://thedirect.s3.amazonaws.com/media/article_full/hanpos.jpg

Ah.

Was Mephisto in one of the last Spider-Man movies? I haven't seen either Holland one.

From Spun's article, she could be a whole different character, but was also thinking that maybe she's a redesigned Mephisto in this city with that thought. But still seems like all the controlling is coming from Wanda, so not sure what the point would be right now.

[Dukefrukem]

Ah.

Was Mephisto in one of the last Spider-Man movies? I haven't seen either Holland one.

From Spun's article, she could be a whole different character, but was also thinking that maybe she's a redesigned Mephisto in this city with that thought. But still seems like all the controlling is coming from Wanda, so not sure what the point would be right now.

No. But he's a great villain to build a phase 4 mythology around (the Devil, Demons (extra-dimensional beings), vampires, Death). Especially since the MCU seems to be taking a more horror approach with Raimi on board with DR Strange (and rumors of a Nicholas Cage Ghost Rider reprisal. AND especially if Blade is part of the MCU now.

There may even be links to the Spidey-verse; Venom, Mobius, Kraven the Hunter...

All of these characters have links.

[Wryan]

Agatha Harkness works pretty well.

[Skitch]

Hmmm....nope, didnt care about ep7.

[Peng]

Agatha Harkness works pretty well.

Yup.

I already love Hahn as a performer, and getting to see her go ham with her own theme song was a treat.

[Spun Lepton]

I really enjoyed it. They answered two big questions. Rambeau appears to be changing (or has changed) into Photon. And Agnes is indeed Harkness.

[Ezee E]

I think it's going to head in a direction that'll be a bit more atypical, but still maintain that this is one of the more original displays of grief that I've seen in movies, and it just happens to be in a Marvel storyline.

The villain theme song also kicks ass.

[Dukefrukem]

I really enjoyed it. They answered two big questions. Rambeau appears to be changing (or has changed) into Photon. And Agnes is indeed Harkness.

And introduced many more.

1. That was Darkhold in the witch chamber of Harkness; Introducing black magic for the first time with links to Dr Strange and Ghost Rider, vampires (Blade??), among others.

2. The after credits scene confirmed that was not Pietro Maximoff as we know him, and also not the multi-verse Pietro Maximoff. (it's likely Mephisto teamed up with Harkness)

[Skitch]

I didn't pick up any of this, nor have I ever heard of Harkness. I didn't hate the ep, but I guess I didn't understand.

[Ezee E]

I didn't pick up any of this, nor have I ever heard of Harkness. I didn't hate the ep, but I guess I didn't understand.

Never heard of her either actually or Darkhold or whatev. I'm fine with that.

[DFA1979]

The fake commercials are hilarious. I also love the theme songs for each episode. I called into work today cause of snow and my back hurt so I spent all day catching up. I can't wait for the 8th episode.

[Dukefrukem]

https://i.ibb.co/HC3WB3b/wv.png

[DFA1979]

Good joke although all Netflix needs is Stranger Things S4 and the Internet will shift back to them again.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Oh yeah. Wind River. I remember when that was a movie for like three seconds.

[Ezee E]

Oh yeah. Wind River. I remember when that was a movie for like three seconds.

It's actually pretty good!

[StuSmallz]

Oh yeah. Wind River. I remember when that was a movie for like three seconds.Huh?

[Skitch]

Good flick

[Idioteque Stalker]

Seems like a “movie that exists,” but I’ll take yall’s word for it.

[StuSmallz]

Seems like a “movie that exists,” but I’ll take yall’s word for it.Wait, are you saying you haven't seen it yet?

[Irish]

Wind River is def a "movie that exists"

Nobody would talking about it save this twitter ad from Amazon

[Wryan]

It's a shame they waited so long to get into the real meat, cause these last two episodes have been great. Only one more episode left I think?

All bow to Hahn.

[Skitch]

Yeah....last ep...I guess okay I guess? I'm not a fan of waiting around for the show to explain it to you because its unexplainable. Not really judging it all just yet because maybe last ep(s) pack it all in, but...huh?

[Idioteque Stalker]

Wait, are you saying you haven't seen it yet?

I have not seen it.

[StuSmallz]

Wind River is def a "movie that exists"

Nobody would talking about it save this twitter ad from AmazonI'm not saying that it was 2001-level gamechanger, but you can say that about 99% of all movies anyway, and Wind River (https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/film/wind-river-2017/) didn't have to be in order to be a good movie in its own right. Plus, it's unusual level of social relevance in shining a spotlight on the neglect Native Americans still face on reservations also keeps it from being just another potboiler, IMO.

[Irish]

Yah, I'm saying it isn't a good movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Last episode was an exposition dump. We didn't really drive anything forward other than Wanda is and was officially a mutant, with the Infinity Stone amplifying her powers. Ata least that is how I am reading the sudden reveal of "scarlet witch". They never said it any past movie because the rights were owned by Fox. It also explains why she was able to survive the Hydra experiments. Too bad we didn't get a Thomas Kretschmann cameo. .

We learn where the sitcom love comes from, actually witness the death of her parents, and understand that Vision as we know, was a complete fabrication of her powers....

Oh also, we don't know how White Vision is going to react to all of this.

But it certainly looks like a new vision is going to be existing after the series ends.

[Skitch]

Agreed on all points.

[[ETM]]

I like it. Tweaking the existing lore to fit the current canon is working just fine. It was about time magic entered the MCU through more than just Doctor Strange, and Wanda's powers were always too vague.

[Wryan]

I liked Wind River. Though mostly because I like Olsen and Gil Birmingham and Renner wasn't too annoying.

[Wryan]

Also I'm happy that WV is finally letting Olsen do a little more than just occasionally stare off into the middle distance and silently wonder, "Huh.....maybe I am traumatized?"

[Ezee E]

The last episode is basically the first seven episodes all encompassed into one. It still worked for me as a way to tie everything up, and next week we'll see where things transition to next.

Mutants amplified by the Infinity Stones is a neat addition. Unsure if that was ever explored in the comics.

Hopefully there's a positive ending to this. I'd rather not have Wanda be the next Sansa Stark. Olsen has done so well in this.

And Wind River is great.

[Dukefrukem]

Mutants amplified by the Infinity Stones is a neat addition. Unsure if that was ever explored in the comics.


It is kinda cool that Ultron might have known this. He has a line in Ultron like "I wondered why only you two survived the experiments. Now I know"

Amplified, not sure. But Wolverine has used an infinity stone in the past. So has Beast and Emma Frost.

[Skitch]

The word "retcon" is missing from this conversation.

[StuSmallz]

I liked Wind River. Though mostly because I like Olsen and Gil Birmingham and Renner wasn't too annoying.Don't forget about how good the ending is:


https://youtu.be/sGNbVMgJfj8

[DFA1979]

I thought Wind River was great.

I really liked the last episode of WandaVision and I'm not normally big on origin stories. It definitely filled in some blanks. I knew that director guy was lying but that was confirmed earlier when what's her name hacked into the server.

[Spun Lepton]

Damn, I thought there were 10 episodes. I'm not prepared for it to end just yet.

[Skitch]

I quite enjoyed Wind River.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Now I feel a sense of obligation to watch Wind River, so as to atone for my sin (or possibly achieve vindication).

[DFA1979]

Damn, I thought there were 10 episodes. I'm not prepared for it to end just yet.

I am fine with them leaving us wanting more. I doubt there will be a second season though.

[Ezee E]

I am fine with them leaving us wanting more. I doubt there will be a second season though.

Yeah, there's already like fifteen other shows in line.

[Milky Joe]

Also I'm happy that WV is finally letting Olsen do a little more than just occasionally stare off into the middle distance and silently wonder, "Huh.....maybe I am traumatized?"

Mm, now she can instead stare directly into the camera and say aloud, "yes, I am traumatized!"

j/k j/k I like the show

[Grouchy]

Caught up and ready for the finale. I actually enjoyed the schtick of the first two episodes so much I wish they'd found a way to advance the plot while spending more time in-sitcom... but what they did was unique enough, I guess. It's not meant to be a surrealist work of art but, as Lynch lite, it's great!

Bettany and Olsen are amazing in this. They completely nail the timing and the facial expressions of old sitcoms. I'm not surprised by Bettany who was always stellar, but... Merlin's beard, Olsen got some acting classes under her belt!

[Skitch]

Finished it. Meh

[Wryan]

They're being rather uncharitable with the runtime descriptions, given how much padding is at the beginning and end of each episode. I liked the finale. I still think they could have, and should have, gone deeper into the hard questions of Wanda's actions. They could have given us a scene of her explaining to her children that they aren't real, etc., tho given what was about to happen, maybe that would have been too much for them at that point and a harsh way to go out. I think the angle they gave us worked okay overall. Obv the new Vision will turn up somewhere. Glad that Agatha may return in some capacity. The fit was bangin'.

[Wryan]

The shots of windy be-shawled Agatha flying around are the best Halloween decoration ever.

[Grouchy]

The finale was only OK. It relied on one too many conveniences and it left Wanda off the moral hook too easily. I also couldn't understand why when Agatha temporarily released the citizens from the spell, none of them attacked Wanda. It seemed like they were about to, but instead... they tried to reason with her? After a slavery that lasted who knows how long?

The wide appeal of the show was clearly the opening weirdness so I hope the upcoming Marvel TV shows (and movies) take notes and attempt similar things.

[Wryan]

The Marvel subreddit calculated the whole show without recaps or credits or Marvel intro to be 4 hours, 30 mins, 10 secs. Imagine if this show were like 15 episodes long. And the first 5-7 were dedicated to the same sitcom-with-dark-hints as this show and the last 5-7 were dedicated to the tough questions about Wanda's grief and actions. Could have been really something. But it has its strengths and is an interesting experiment. Hope they keep trying new things.

[Ezee E]

The new Vision was handled pretty weakly, and I think we could've done entirely without it.

The show's clearly at its best when it's with Wanda. While I think it was a little too convenient on how she won her final fight, the show remains one of the better things in the MCU to me. I also hope that Marvel uses the TV format to tell a story in different ways, rather than the atypical way the movies have been.

[Grouchy]

The Marvel subreddit calculated the whole show without recaps or credits or Marvel intro to be 4 hours, 30 mins, 10 secs. Imagine if this show were like 15 episodes long. And the first 5-7 were dedicated to the same sitcom-with-dark-hints as this show and the last 5-7 were dedicated to the tough questions about Wanda's grief and actions. Could have been really something. But it has its strengths and is an interesting experiment. Hope they keep trying new things.
I think that could have been done even with the current running time, though.

[Spun Lepton]

C and I loved it. Looking forward to whatever adventures await for Wanda and Nu Vision.

[Dukefrukem]

It was a fine experiment. Ending wasn't really closed out entirely; where did White Vision go? What about Darcy?

Loved the Skrull after credit scene; Looks like we will be seeing more Rambeau possibly in Captain Marvel 2, or whatever Fury will be in next.

Also the After After credit scene really makes the Scarlet Witch out to be possibly the villain of Doctor Strange 2.

[Dukefrukem]

The Marvel subreddit calculated the whole show without recaps or credits or Marvel intro to be 4 hours, 30 mins, 10 secs. Imagine if this show were like 15 episodes long. And the first 5-7 were dedicated to the same sitcom-with-dark-hints as this show and the last 5-7 were dedicated to the tough questions about Wanda's grief and actions. Could have been really something. But it has its strengths and is an interesting experiment. Hope they keep trying new things.

This seems really sad for a "series". The Justice League movie is going to be four hours long. Apparently Falcon and the Winter Soldier is only 6 episodes. Does that mean it's going to be 2.5 hours long? The first half of Punisher on Netflix has plenty of development and each episode is 60 minutes. I only mention it because I'm watching it now.

[Peng]

This saves the weakest for the last, and as much as many may not be satisfied with the first few episodes (look at their scores on imdb (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9140560/episodes) and trakt (https://trakt.tv/shows/wandavision/seasons/1) in comparison to the rest), I really miss the more committed charming goofiness of their format, with the occasional moments of sinister breakthroughs. Some usual MCU stuff after that is engaging enough, but coming after those eps' opening change of pace makes the whole thing feel like a big disappointment.

Still, overall I'm not outright negative on this probably because of Olsen, who finally gets a full showcase and obliterates every challenge in her way. I'd like to imagine that they make this show after seeing her Infinity War scene where she has to kill Vision, in which Olsen's performance goes above and beyond what the scene requires and makes the whole climax already a gut-punch even before the snap, being so impressed with her there that they make that scene the lynchpin of the whole series.

[Wryan]

Funny, I totally agree with you on Olsen re: Infinity War but thought she was pretty poorly directed in a few key scenes in WV. I say that because I think she's more than capable as an actor but felt some moments were just kinda wonky.

[transmogrifier]

I'm never going to watch this, but I'm always surprised when people think the MCU moving into TV is supposed to herald new modes of storytelling when the MCU cinematic universe is essentially a glorified TV series anyway. Episodic narratives with repetitive motifs and heavy fan service with call backs and teases ("Next week on....").

[Dukefrukem]

I'm never going to watch this, but I'm always surprised when people think the MCU moving into TV is supposed to herald new modes of storytelling when the MCU cinematic universe is essentially a glorified TV series anyway. Episodic narratives with repetitive motifs and heavy fan service with call backs and teases ("Next week on....").

Well, to be fair, something like WandaVision would never have worked as a feature film.

[Spun Lepton]

I adore pretty much everything MCU, but I never expect them to be anything more than breezy popcorn fare. In fact, that's what I want out of them. I want to go into each of them and feel like a kid again. Reading Marvel comics back-when was total escapism for me, and the movies reflect that completely. Part of the reason I love them so much is because when I read the comics back-when, I kept imaging how much fun they would be as movies. Now, that wish has actually come to formation and I will consume all of it.

It helps they have a producer who is dedicated to translating the characters so faithfully to the screen. I also read a lot of DC comics back in the day and the treatment their characters has been given by the WB is at times mind-boggling. Zack Snyder leaning so heavily on Frank Miller's niche portrayal of the characters is disheartening. DC has always felt more "adult," than Marvel, yes, granted, but not everything they did was uber-grimdark. I think bringing in Patty Jenkins and James Gunn were positive steps (and I anticipate that the new Suicide Squad will kick ass), but it feels like WB still doesn't respect the brand as much as they should.

Anyway ... rant over.

Man, you folks are going to be disappointed in me when all the new MCU movies top out my "Top 10 Movies First Seen in 2021" thread. lol

[Grouchy]

The first half of Punisher on Netflix has plenty of development and each episode is 60 minutes. I only mention it because I'm watching it now.
I think all those Netflix shows, even the best ones like Jessica Jones, had way too much padding.

[Ezee E]

One thing about DC is that I just don't think Superman and Batman are ever really fit to be in the same world together. They're so vastly different, that even in comics I feel they're too separated and odd to have in the same storyline.

Marvel's done a good job because they've clearly established that heros like Thor, Hulk, and even Scarlet Witch are vastly more powerful than Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Spider-Man. Iron Man/Captain America are somewhere in the middle, but likely have no chance if they were to try and go one-on-one with them, and if they did, it would be out of pure luck. DC seems to try to put Superman/Batman on the same level with each other.

[Wryan]

I continue to be amused that Marvel Studios has taken something that for years, decades, was a niche-geek thing and made it so wildly mainstream in popularity. My mother likes Marvel movies, even watched Agents of Shield ffs. The Guardians squad are her favorite. She otherwise could not care less about genre works or sci-fi or fantasy or comics. There's something deeply interesting about that to me. Marvel has been rather canny about the accessibility of its approach. And if we're fast approaching oversaturation and it leads to a stack overflow of sorts....well, so it goes. Other things will replace it. I wish the balance were tipped a little more evenly though, so that with every [will-probably-suck] Morbius we get a Logan. For now I can enjoy a Marvel movie and then rewatch a Fellini and then hoot with delight at Kong fighting Godzilla and then catch the next It Follows. From where I'm sitting, I'm feeling fine on a personal level. Industry-wise, oh, I dunno. I leave that up to y'all who enjoy debating it with Scorsese.

[Dukefrukem]

I think all those Netflix shows, even the best ones like Jessica Jones, had way too much padding.

You're probably right. But I'm just needing maybe 1 or 2 sixty minute episodes in this WandaSeries. I'm not asking for 13. Sixty minutes episodes, like the Netflix ones.

[transmogrifier]

From where I'm sitting, I'm feeling fine on a personal level.

I have no problem with the MCU existing. Mainstream entertainment has been around forever and will always be so. I just wish it were better (the movies anyway; I have not watched any of the TV series) :). Anyway, I'm bowing out because I have not watched this TV show and should not derail the thread further.

[Milky Joe]

One thing about DC is that I just don't think Superman and Batman are ever really fit to be in the same world together. They're so vastly different, that even in comics I feel they're too separated and odd to have in the same storyline.

Marvel's done a good job because they've clearly established that heros like Thor, Hulk, and even Scarlet Witch are vastly more powerful than Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Spider-Man. Iron Man/Captain America are somewhere in the middle, but likely have no chance if they were to try and go one-on-one with them, and if they did, it would be out of pure luck. DC seems to try to put Superman/Batman on the same level with each other.

Mmmwell, that's because Batman is on a whole 'nother level than Supes. The stuff in the animated shows/movies where he shows why is the best stuff.

[Ezee E]

I continue to be amused that Marvel Studios has taken something that for years, decades, was a niche-geek thing and made it so wildly mainstream in popularity. My mother likes Marvel movies, even watched Agents of Shield ffs. The Guardians squad are her favorite. She otherwise could not care less about genre works or sci-fi or fantasy or comics. There's something deeply interesting about that to me. Marvel has been rather canny about the accessibility of its approach. And if we're fast approaching oversaturation and it leads to a stack overflow of sorts....well, so it goes. Other things will replace it. I wish the balance were tipped a little more evenly though, so that with every [will-probably-suck] Morbius we get a Logan. For now I can enjoy a Marvel movie and then rewatch a Fellini and then hoot with delight at Kong fighting Godzilla and then catch the next It Follows. From where I'm sitting, I'm feeling fine on a personal level. Industry-wise, oh, I dunno. I leave that up to y'all who enjoy debating it with Scorsese.

That's the truth. I was talking about WandaVision today with people that don't watch any other movies, still think Star Wars is geeky, and some reality tv. The exception is Marvel. They liked the sitcom stuff of WandaVision, even though they didn't understand why they were doing it really. We both agreed that the ending was kind of lame, but that the sum of the show was very good. Her favorite is Thor: Ragnarok.

[[ETM]]

I can't be bothered with the MCU bashing at all. For a lovely few years, it was a given that I'd go out with all my friends to a fun movie we all knew we'd probably enjoy a lot a few times per year. There'd be speculation, sometimes cosplay for the premiere, because many in our group love making and performing in costumes. For Endgame, we had a whole group of Avengers assembled. I watched Endgame in a mall in suburban Tokyo, and experienced the same thing with the audience sniffling, gasping and clapping at the same beats as our friends back home. Sure, none of the movies were Raging Bull, but I don't think any of us would make an effort like that for a Scorsese movie. Sorry, Marty, but - let me have my memories.

[Ezee E]

Just recollecting... and Agatha.

What was she doing prior to being "woke up" by Vision? Was is just momentary glimpses of being aware and forging things to mess with Wanda in an attempt to have her do powers in front of everyone, and failing?

Why did she need to be woken up by Vision later on then?

[Spun Lepton]

Pretty sure she was faking being "woken up."

[Ezee E]

How'd she get "for real" put down then? Just odd.

[Wryan]

Didn't she say she arrived after the Hex was created? Perhaps she just slipped into town and Wanda can't keep track of every single person she altered?

Later on, with direct focus, Wanda fades her.

[Wryan]

I'm more curious wtf Hayward was doing here:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bN3CF16gnVU/hqdefault.jpg

[Ezee E]

Didn't she say she arrived after the Hex was created? Perhaps she just slipped into town and Wanda can't keep track of every single person she altered?

Later on, with direct focus, Wanda fades her.

I missed it but I could buy that. The car stop incident would be quite the facade to put on still.

[Dukefrukem]

Didn't she say she arrived after the Hex was created? Perhaps she just slipped into town and Wanda can't keep track of every single person she altered?

Later on, with direct focus, Wanda fades her.

yeh that was the impression as I took it. THe magic drew her to the town, and she stayed to try to understand how someone as powerful as Wanda could cast such a spell.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I kept my promise and watched Wind River. I have to admit, I liked it! But in my defense it skirts dangerously close to a movie that exists. Extended thoughts in Wind River thread.

[Dukefrukem]

I kept my promise and watched Wind River. I have to admit, I liked it! But in my defense it skirts dangerously close to a movie that exists. Extended thoughts in Wind River thread.

I think that's why they opted to tell this story in series format. As a movie it absolutely would not work. Plus Disney gets the added benefit of fans speculating and making youtube videos for 9 weeks straight. Free marketing.

I also think they were struggling with how to introduce Mutants and dark magic into the MCU without it feeling forced. And this was the easiest and cheapest way to do it.

[Skitch]

I 100% agree it wouldn't have worked as a movie. I don't know why they would feel it difficult to introduce mutants or magic...we already have Dr. Strange (which worked in just fine imo), and at this point, if audiences are gonna bail at the idea of "mutants" then they are just stupid as hell. I think Tony's micro-robot forming suit is more ridiculous.

[Dukefrukem]

I 100% agree it wouldn't have worked as a movie. I don't know why they would feel it difficult to introduce mutants or magic...we already have Dr. Strange (which worked in just fine imo), and at this point, if audiences are gonna bail at the idea of "mutants" then they are just stupid as hell. I think Tony's micro-robot forming suit is more ridiculous.

I suppose I should be more clear on the magic introduction; Not that magic exists because they have established Doctor Strange and Thor well enough for the audience at that point. It's more about Wanda's USE of magic, as a mutant. That would need to be some kind of sub plot in a bigger movie, and they wanted to play with that idea more than have it just be a scene in Doctor Strange 2 where the Ancient One tells Wanda she is a witch.

[Skitch]

I suppose I should be more clear on the magic introduction; Not that magic exists because they have established Doctor Strange and Thor well enough for the audience at that point. It's more about Wanda's USE of magic, as a mutant. That would need to be some kind of sub plot in a bigger movie, and they wanted to play with that idea more than have it just be a scene in Doctor Strange 2 where the Ancient One tells Wanda she is a witch.

I think audiences could just roll with it. I dont think audiences care that much anymore.

[amberlita]

I finally watched this show and caught up on this thread and the only thing I have to say is that Wind River is really good.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I finally watched this show and caught up on this thread and the only thing I have to say is that Wind River is really good.

I kind of ended up eating my words with this one. Even had the gall to recommend it in another thread. Don't judge a book by its cover I suppose.

[Morris Schæffer]

Didn't really work for me for the first bunch of episodes although I kept watching realizing it wasn't actually a sitcom show and something had to give. By episode 4 became a minor believer as more was revealed about what was going on and I liked where it was at that point. Mysterious, certainly a whiff of originality there, but mostly downhill from there as the narrative cat was out of the bag and all they could do to keep it going was to introduce an actual real witch, which for me came out of nowhere. I did not feel that the show as about that. It didn't need a real villain. If the show had followed its original through line, that Wanda was grieving and unable to let go, then she was the 'villain'. I'm a bit more lenient towards evil government dude, but not by much to be honest. The action in the last episode is sheer bombast, clashing with the relatively simple concept of grieving and not being able to let go. Two visions flying about? No thanks. Some very wonderful and tender final moments though between Wanda and Vis at the end.