The Fall (Tarsem Singh)

[Morris Schæffer]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q6j-vg8uNcE&fmt=18

Well, that looks rather special. Never seen The Cell btw.

[Acapelli]

I'm really looking forward to this.

[Rowland]

That looks silly.

[megladon8]

Looks cool.

Why is he just called Tarsem now?

And that main character - Lee Pace is the actor, I think? - has a great voice. Nothing worse than a movie narrated by someone whose voice annoys you.

[number8]

I adore this movie already. I'm going to go have sex with this trailer now.

[Mara]

I've been a big Lee Pace fan ever since Pushing Daisies came out last fall, so this film is high on my must-see list.

And The Cell was visually stunning, while being a narrative mess.

[DavidSeven]

The Cell was promising enough for me to be interested in this. The trailer is stunning, but the potential for a Southland Tales type disaster seems possible.

[Mysterious Dude]

It looks visually stunning, but I really like the dark tone of The Cell in addition to the visuals, and that looks to be something that this film is lacking.

[number8]

The Cell was promising enough for me to be interested in this. The trailer is stunning, but the potential for a Southland Tales type disaster seems possible.

Funny, I also got a Southland Tales vibe from the trailer. Which is exactly why this is now on top of my must see list.

[Boner M]

The Cell was an abomination. This looks slightly better, but the visuals still look like the cover art to some cheap new-age prog-rock album magically brought to life. And single-name directors suck.

[number8]

Folks, movie heaven does exist. And I believe today I temporarily died and visited said nirvana for two hours.

Oh my god. If I wasn't trying to look professional in front of other press peeps, I would've been bawling at the end.

[Sven]

Folks, movie heaven does exist. And I believe today I temporarily died and visited said nirvana for two hours.

Oh my god. If I wasn't trying to look professional in front of other press peeps, I would've been bawling at the end.

Awesome. I've been reading about this and think I've decided I really want to see it.

[Morris Schæffer]

Cool. Tell us more dude!:)

[Watashi]

After seeing Southland Tales, I hope this movie has nothing in common with Southland Tales.

[number8]

Yeah, it actually doesn't.

[monolith94]

How'd you see it, 8? Imdb only shows it as playing in socal and NYC...

[Ezee E]

How'd you see it, 8? Imdb only shows it as playing in socal and NYC...

The even better question is, "How much does it rule to get paid to see that?"

[DavidSeven]

Seeing it on Friday as a part of SIFF. Can't wait.

[DavidSeven]

I don't know if this film will play nearly as well on DVD, but seeing it on the big screen with a lively audience was one of the best theater experiences I can remember having.

[Watashi]

You guys are loony. This film is terrible.

[Russ]

You guys are loony. This film is terrible.
Jeez, I'm so relieved. Now that it has received the Watashi Seal of Disapproval , I'm sure I'll love it.

[Watashi]

Jeez, I'm so relieved. Now that it has received the Watashi Seal of Disapproval , I'm sure I'll love it.

:|

[Sycophant]

Saw the trailer for this today. I'm stoked.

[Dead & Messed Up]

You guys are loony. This film is terrible.

I'll admit that the real-world drama is kinda slack, but the visuals really are lovely, and the two main actors are very natural together. I wouldn't call the film great, but it contains many, many moments of greatness.

And how about that

awesomely depressing ending where everyone is dying? I thought those fifteen or so minutes of the picture were show-stoppingly spectacular and surprisingly haunting.

[Qrazy]

I'll admit that the real-world drama is kinda slack, but the visuals really are lovely, and the two main actors are very natural together. I wouldn't call the film great, but it contains many, many moments of greatness.

And how about that

awesomely depressing ending where everyone is dying? I thought those fifteen or so minutes of the picture were show-stoppingly spectacular and surprisingly haunting.

Haven't seen the film but yeah that's where I felt The Cell failed... in it's real world scenes.

[number8]

And how about that

awesomely depressing ending where everyone is dying? I thought those fifteen or so minutes of the picture were show-stoppingly spectacular and surprisingly haunting.

I cried.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Haven't seen the film but yeah that's where I felt The Cell failed... in it's real world scenes.

I don't even think The Cell failed in its real-world scenes, which were perfectly acceptable sequences of police procedural. It's just that, well, how can you be interested in them after ten seconds inside that killer's lurid, awe-inspiring mindscape?

[Dead & Messed Up]

I cried.

I saw it with a girl, so man-rules dictated that I hold it in.

[monolith94]

Maybe Tarsem should just make an all-fantasy film.

[number8]

I don't even think The Cell failed in its real-world scenes, which were perfectly acceptable sequences of police procedural. It's just that, well, how can you be interested in them after ten seconds inside that killer's lurid, awe-inspiring mindscape?

I don't think the problem with The Cell was with the narrative, but it's the characters. You're right that they are perfectly fine procedural scenes (although a tad too genericly Morgan Freeman-Ashley Judd-ish), but J-Lo and Vince Vaughn's characters were so poorly conceived that you just don't fucking care. You just want to see more of the killer's mindscape.

The reason why The Fall works much, much better is because the two leads were so good together.

[Raiders]

The film doesn't really appeal to me at all, except I am quite anxious to see Lee Pace in a leading role. He's so damn good on "Pushing Daisies," though this seems a complete 180 in terms of material.

[Watashi]

The main problem with the film is that it suffers from cute kid syndrome. I'm not saying this is young Romanian Catinca Untaru's fault, but her constant fumbling with her lines and repetitious question asking was overdoing the string-pulling mechanisms. It was almost too natural. As my scattered audience all went "awwww" after Catinca said something adorable, I couldn't help but shake my head and wondered if Tarsem was capable of making a strong story without the help of the audience's adoration for the main lead.

Even as a visual piece, I was left underwhelmed and it feels like something that Matthew Barney might have puked out if inhaled him with too much perfume. Then it tries to attempt to tidy the whole film up in a simple montage of stuntmen (the real storytellers) to sum up the weirdness beforehand in case you were unaware the entire time.

[Ezee E]

Just watched the trailer today.

It comes to Boulder tomorrow.

I'm getting there somehow.

And what is the name of that piece of music they use?

[Russ]

Beethoven's Symphony #7, second movement.

[Mara]

Yeah, I think I'm going to watch this. The Washington Post gave it a stunning review today.

[Ezee E]

Ebert's 4-Star review has me pretty excited now.

No CGI was used in this movie. Just seeing the preview makes me say "wow" to that.

[Raiders]

I'm hoping Tarsem will go into some detail about the movie at my showing. I doubt there will be any time for questions, but maybe he can give a good intro or closing comments.

[Mara]

I'm hoping Tarsem will go into some detail about the movie at my showing. I doubt there will be any time for questions, but maybe he can give a good intro or closing comments.

Are you in the DC area? Because I thought about going to one of his Q&A screenings, but I'm going to be out of town for my sister's graduation.

[Raiders]

Are you in the DC area? Because I thought about going to one of his Q&A screenings, but I'm going to be out of town for my sister's graduation.

Yeah. Landmark Theatres in Bethesda.

[Mara]

Yeah. Landmark Theatres in Bethesda.

Pretty close to where I live. I'm probably going to see it in that theater, but not this weekend. Soon.

Let us know how the Q&A goes!

[DavidSeven]

Ebert:

[...]you might want to see for no other reason than because it exists. There will never be another like it.

"The Fall" is so audacious that when Variety calls it a "vanity project," you can only admire the man vain enough to make it.

[...]

Either you are drawn into the world of this movie or you are not. It is preposterous, of course, but I vote with Werner Herzog, who says if we do not find new images, we will perish.

Pretty much.

[DavidSeven]

Also, I think the "real world" portion is totally underrated. The film doesn't work without this piece. Perhaps it is carried by the strength of the two leads (tremendous performances, by the way) and maybe there isn't much depth in their respective dilemmas, but I was emotionally hooked by these scenes.

I was also surprised by how funny the film was. Really cool experience all the way around.

[Watashi]

you might want to see for no other reason than because it exists. There will never be another like it.


:|

[DavidSeven]

:|

What's wrong with that? I think a lot of people here would rather see completely original awfulness than painfully bland mediocrity.

[Watashi]

What's wrong with that? I think a lot of people here would rather see completely original awfulness than painfully bland mediocrity.
I was saying the same things about The Fountain two years ago and people laughed at that.

The Fall's visuals aren't really that breathtaking. It's a case of the trailer being better than the movie.

And before you say "The Fall > The Fountain", Dave (because I know you will), you are wrong. Very wrong.

[Rowland]

I seem to be one of the few who was genuinely turned off by the trailer. I thought it looked really... well, lame. I'll probably still see it, but my expectations are low.

And The Fountain is brilliant. I'll never understand the reaction to that one... maybe you need to closely identify with its themes for it to work.

[[ETM]]

And The Fountain is brilliant. I'll never understand the reaction to that one... maybe you need to closely identify with its themes for it to work.

I adored the Fountain, so I'm agreeing with you on that statement.

[Ezee E]

While I liked The Fountain, I don't find its images to be particularly memorable now. Except for the silly one of a flower blossoming outside of Jackman's mouth.

[[ETM]]

While I liked The Fountain, I don't find its images to be particularly memorable now. Except for the silly one of a flower blossoming outside of Jackman's mouth.

Confirms what Rowland was saying... I bet you don't even remember the scenes I found the most memorable.

[transmogrifier]

The Fountain is a silly little film - a lot on its mind, but absolutely no way to articulate it without it coming across as campy gibberish.

[Rowland]

The Fountain is a silly little film - a lot on its mind, but absolutely no way to articulate it without it coming across as campy gibberish.Its effectiveness seems largely predicated on the individual viewer's willingness to give themselves over to its nakedly sincere vision. Maybe I'd agree with you if I didn't watch half the movie through teary eyes. I'm glad I saw it in an empty theater.

[Sven]

8 and 7 are right on the dollar: this film is incredible. The last act in particular, the concentrated emphasis on the storyteller's misery, as well as its textual shift to encompass cinematic ideas into its schemes, was phenomenal. I was not a lover of The Cell--I found it distant, and devoid of relevance... a showcase for Tarsem's graphic design. This film incorporates his fantasies in an effective and relevant way, harmonizing the imagination of the storyteller and the listener (I love the Indian-Squaw revelation) and allowing them, more or less, to become one.

[Raiders]

Hm. Before I was only curious in this film. I'm somewhat excited now. Though it still doesn't look like my cup o' tea.

[Sven]

I will say that from time to time, the Exotic Imagery echoed the staid symmetry and commercial lighting of travel agency posters. But only a few times, really. This movie does nothing if not precariously teeter on a chasmic precipice of potential wiggity-whack (hence its mostly negative reactions). But I think it pulls through admirably.

The "no CGI" comment has to've been specious, because there is CGI. Not a lot, but it's there. I'm thinking of the thing crawling under the mystic's skin, the butterfly island imagery, and the arrows that kill the escaped slave.

[number8]

http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/the-fall/review/

[SirNewt]

hmmmm. . . with that title, I was thinking, Milton. But, this looks interesting.

[Sven]

...harmonizing the imagination of the storyteller and the listener ... and allowing them, more or less, to become one.

To elucidate on this idea slightly, I love the dialogue where he says something like: "I can do whatever I want, it's my story." And she responds: "It's mine, too." That more or less sums up (simply) my feelings about the relationship between audience and storyteller. While it is his story, it's unmistakably filtered through the eyes of a small non-American girl, and so the claim of authorship is blurred into a rough non-distinction. It's a potentially disastrous model, but is magically executed.

[Raiders]

Thought this was pretty damn good, actually. The scenes in the hospital between Alexandria and Roy were surprisingly captivating. I think the naturalism really lent to this, and it is interesting to note how great a performance Untaru gives and Tarsem's own comments (in the Q&A session) that she spoke little English and most of her lines were ad-libbed by her based on her understanding of the scene. I thought it was a great angle that she came across not at all as a precocious little child, but as a small girl unable to fully comprehend what is happening. Tarsem uses the language barrier as a signal for Alexandria's lack of understanding that Roy shouldn't have those pills. As Tarsem noted himself, a five or six year-old might likely figure out that it is stealing, but her broken English allows for a greater sense of innocence and makes the conclusion, when she finally puts it together, that much more effective.

The fantasy scenes are a mixed bag. The design is of course quite wonderful, but I wonder if Tarsem made the right decision in keeping the scenes so static and staged. It works well inside the hospital with his camera's peering intimacy at the two central characters, but I felt such a supposedly epic tale as Roy was weaving could have used more motion and scale. I did love the way his fairy tale was weaved in almost a Princess Bride or Monty Python manner, jovially making fun of itself. I think the film's humor came as the biggest surprise and made the scenes not as stuffy as they potentially could have been. There were also moments I could sense the impatient, throwing caution to the wind, music video director in him take over, mainly in the bizarre and unnecessary homage to Svankmajer and the Quay Brothers featuring a young girl's brain surgery through the use of grotesque puppetry.

In the end though, this film was quite a relief. Its maker clearly respected and loves the real-world story (unlike The Cell) and in its two lead characters found two brilliant performances. I also was intrigued by the film's refusal to really pander, all the way to the end when Roy delays the expected payoff by dwelling further into despair and suicidal rage. The fairy tale does not end like most fairy tales, but ends appropriately. The final montage is a little too on-the-nose and disconnected from the rest of the film, but it appropriately weighs Roy's jubilance, fear and emotion at seeing his fateful moment and recognizing that for some, the meaning is in the image and the moment-between-moments.

[Sycophant]

To elucidate on this idea slightly, I love the dialogue where he says something like: "I can do whatever I want, it's my story." And she responds: "It's mine, too." That more or less sums up (simply) my feelings about the relationship between audience and storyteller. While it is his story, it's unmistakably filtered through the eyes of a small non-American girl, and so the claim of authorship is blurred into a rough non-distinction. It's a potentially disastrous model, but is magically executed.Word.

I'm sad the people I saw this with weren't more lively (and there was a surprising number of them at the theater for an early Sunday matinee), because I think the film is designed for the audience's reaction to be as active in the fantasy sequences as in a silent adventure film. The ending sequences were positively heartbreaking. (Even though the crossed-my-fingers gag made me cough up a hearty laugh amidst my strained tears.)

Oh, and there was CGI. Very good CGI. But CGI nonetheless.

[Sycophant]

This played Toronoto in '06? It's existed since then? Crazy.

[Raiders]

I think it is kind of funny that everyone is afraid the real-world drama will suck and the fantasy visuals will be the only reason to see it, and after my viewing, I think the opposite. The fantasy scenes are a mixed lot while the real-world stuff works almost every time (though the two go hand-in-hand and couldn't really be separated). Tarsem himself commented on a friend's statement that he could have made the film without the fantasy scenes and had a great film.

[monolith94]

Gonna see this tomorrow night, hopefully...

[[ETM]]

Tarsem himself commented on a friend's statement that he could have made the film without the fantasy scenes and had a great film.

Well, there'll always be a faneditor out there who'll do it, like the guy who separated the two worlds in Pan's Labyrinth into standalone films.

[Watashi]

Le sigh.

[Raiders]

Le sigh.

I guess it's "welcome to me and Speed Racer."

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

Purely based on the trailer this film looks pathetic, almost as bad as Pan's Labyrinth. I was half expecting a narrator's voice to boom in "from the mind of Tarsem..." in the trailer.

[Boner M]

I was half expecting a narrator's voice to boom in "from the mind of Tarsem..." in the trailer.
Haha, rep.

[Raiders]

Haha, rep.

I would have, but his Pan's Labyrinth gripe and his sig rating of Fassbinder's film stayed my hand.

[trotchky]

Purely based on the trailer this film looks pathetic, almost as bad as Pan's Labyrinth. I was half expecting a narrator's voice to boom in "from the mind of Tarsem..." in the trailer.
Heh. Agreed.

[number8]

This played Toronoto in '06? It's existed since then? Crazy.

Yeah, and it started shooting in 2002. The little girl is now 11 years old.

I half-believe that the reason this movie is finally released at all is because of Pushing Daisies. :P

[Raiders]

Yeah, and it started shooting in 2002. The little girl is now 11 years old.

Plus, Tarsem said he has been working on it (the idea, anyway) for over 20 years. It is the only film he has ever wanted to make.

[number8]

Plus, Tarsem said he has been working on it (the idea, anyway) for over 20 years.

After seeing this film (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278827/), no doubt.

[Raiders]

After seeing this film (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278827/), no doubt.

Uh, wow. That's like, identical.

[number8]

Uh, wow. That's like, identical.

Well, it's deliberate. Remember how Roy was going to tell a story about pirates at first, and Alexandria said she doesn't like pirates? That was a nod to this film.

[Raiders]

Well, it's deliberate. Remember how Roy was going to tell a story about pirates at first, and Alexandria said she doesn't like pirates? That was a nod to this film.

Yeah, interesting he didn't mention that considering one of the questions was essentially asking how he came up with the story. He said he based it off elements of other stories he knew, but didn't name drop one in particular.

[monolith94]

Good film, but unfortunately I made it late to the theater, so I missed the film up until the man who was visiting Roy in the hospital left. Could anyone spoiler what I missed?

[Sven]

Good film, but unfortunately I made it late to the theater, so I missed the film up until the man who was visiting Roy in the hospital left. Could anyone spoiler what I missed?

Only one of the most beautiful opening credit sequences ever.[/isn't joking]

[Watashi]

*doesn't even remember the opening credits*

The hyperbole of this film needs to stop.

*is disgruntled*

[monolith94]

Only one of the most beautiful opening credit sequences ever.[/isn't joking]
Shoot, I may have to see this again & bring a friend.

[DavidSeven]

*doesn't even remember the opening credits*

The hyperbole of this film needs to stop.

*is disgruntled*

Did you watch the right film? The opening credits were nothing if not memorable.

monolith: your point of entry seems pretty deep into the film. My guess is that you missed Roy and Alexandria's first meeting? I'd definitely watch it again from the beginning.

[monolith94]

The problem was, not only was I late to begin with, but there are two movie theaters on the same street, and I wound up going to the wrong one first, delaying me even more. Sigh.

[Beau]

I thought it was really quite wonderful. Here are some thoughts I posted over at Rotten Tomatoes:

"I have no clue why this film is being received negatively. No clue whatsoever. It is supremely enjoyable, and, like the linked review mentions, a parable about the artistic process. I generally appreciate meta-narrative in fiction, and here it is truly wondrous stuff. It is a story about an artist and his audience. About the moral and ethical responsibilities of the former in relation to the latter. About the dangers of 'selfish art.' About realizing that art does not exist in a bubble trapped with its own creator, but is a social thing, that belongs to the audience as well as to the artist."

[Ezee E]

Seriously, what's wrong with you on this one Wats?

[Beau]

Uh, wow. That's like, identical.

In the credits to The Fall, the film Yo Ho Ho is referred to as the source material. So the 'similarities' are acknowledged.

[Watashi]

Seriously, what's wrong with you on this one Wats?
Um, it sucks?

It's like EdGo said in his review, its watching Tarsem suck his own cock for 2 hours.

[Raiders]

Um, it sucks?

It's like EdGo said in his review, its watching Tarsem suck his own cock for 2 hours.

That was a pretty bad review. It seems to ignore pretty much why the fantasy scenes exist and that they make up half the film at most. I'm surprised a meta-guy like Ed didn't make any connection between the little girl and the audience of the film (as iosos did in this thread).

[Watashi]

I'm hoping boner and Derek see this film eventually. They should be on my side.... I hope.

[Ezee E]

I will come up with some more thoughts in a bit, but this is quite the spiritual film as well. Watching this really reminded me of The Seventh Seal for some weird reason.

[Ezee E]

I'm hoping boner and Derek see this film eventually. They should be on my side.... I hope.

Maybe you'll get Pop Trash.

[monolith94]

The little girl isn't symbolic of the audience; she symbolizes the director (Tarsem). Roy represents the author of the script, and the little girl puts his words into actualization (what we see). Hence, the confusion between Indian/Indian.

[Beau]

The little girl isn't symbolic of the audience; she symbolizes the director (Tarsem). Roy represents the author of the script, and the little girl puts his words into actualization (what we see). Hence, the confusion between Indian/Indian.

It could work that way, especially considering the ending sequence. Nevertheless, the film is still about a storyteller and his audience. This is the literal relationship dominating the work, and therefore provides many of the metaphors. Any further connections do not detract from this initial interpretation.

[DavidSeven]

I have no clue why this film is being received negatively. No clue whatsoever.

I'm completely baffled by the consensus on this one as well. This is a film that, in my opinion, works from both a commercial and artistic standpoint. Personally, I think it should be getting at least decent reviews based on the real world narrative and the performances alone. The aesthetic and meta aspects of the film should be pushing it over the top. How is it that anything that Apatow touches gets an automatic 80%+ on the tomato-meter while this film can't even get a majority approval? Mind boggling.

[monolith94]

Apatow isn't bold with his camera or his imagery. Boldness can be scary.

[Sven]

That was a pretty bad review. It seems to ignore pretty much why the fantasy scenes exist and that they make up half the film at most. I'm surprised a meta-guy like Ed didn't make any connection between the little girl and the audience of the film (as iosos did in this thread).

Maaaaaan, that is one terrible review. He doesn't even address the film's text, let alone subtext.

[Pop Trash]

Maybe you'll get Pop Trash.
I'm on the fence about seeing this one. I didn't really like The Cell but it might have been its hacky Silence of the Lambs rip off script. Tarsem (nice one name dude...who are you Cher?) seems like he could be the film equivalent of some insufferable prog rock band. Like you get that Yngvie Malmstein or Rick Wakeman are technically proficent musicians but listening to them solo for half an hour makes you yearn for The Ramones or The Pixies. Then again, I loved Pan's Labyrinth, The Fountain, and Jorderowsky's The Holy Mountain so who the hell knows?!?!

[Boner M]

I'm hoping boner and Derek see this film eventually. They should be on my side.... I hope.
I imagine I will, though I'll eventually see Speed Racer and probably hate that too, and subsequently abandon match-cut for the Criterion forum.

[Qrazy]

I imagine I will, though I'll eventually see Speed Racer and probably hate that too, and subsequently abandon match-cut for the Criterion forum.

There's a Criterion forum? *trail of dust*

[monolith94]

I imagine I will, though I'll eventually see Speed Racer and probably hate that too, and subsequently abandon match-cut for the Criterion forum.
:(

*single tear*

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

There's a Criterion forum? *trail of dust*

yes, it's much cooler than this place :evil:


just kidding, they are different beasts altogether.

make sure it's criterionforum.org

[number8]

The little girl isn't symbolic of the audience; she symbolizes the director (Tarsem). Roy represents the author of the script, and the little girl puts his words into actualization (what we see). Hence, the confusion between Indian/Indian.

Sorry, but this is a really boring interpretation.

So he's a screenwriter and she's a director bringing it to life... then what? Aren't metaphors supposed to represent something? This says nothing about that particular filmmaking relationship, just that occasional misinterpretations happen. Making her the audience actually brings up a point about the ownership of stories, and how that connects an artist with his/her patrons. The Indian/Indian confusion doesn't have to be so literal. It can address how an audience member takes away something from a film that is not what was intended by the filmmaker, and how it's just as valid in the context of studying art.

[monolith94]

Well gee, thanks Ari, I didn't think it was so boring. But hey man, that's like, your opinion. I think it's an interesting interpretation because it understands that artists are audiences, and it touches on a theme of what art can do: inspire in individuals innumerable unique visions. For example, when you and I both read the Lord of the Rings, we'll see the world in our heads in different ways. And that's sort of like what directors do with scripts.

[Ezee E]

I doubt that there will be a movie this year as risktaking and original as The Fall. The only problem with the movie is trying to describe it to others without spoiling it because the premise is so simple. Hospitalized man manipulates girl by telling her a story.

Yet, it's so much more than that as well. It's foremost a spiritual film to me, while also analyzing the storytelling process, booming the senses, and pulling the strings of your heart.

Watching this movie felt like I was watching a Bergman film. Spiritual imagery throughout the entire film, featuring a man's soul at risk, and the young girl seeing things for the first time. Those things happening to be both love and death. I don't really recall a direct mention of God in the film, but there are crosses everywhere, sacrifices, and and themes that could come right out of the Old Testament.

While it analyzes the story process, by edging on the idea of what audiences truly want, even if it isn't in the storyteller's hopes or even logical, it isn't as prevalent as the souls at risk. Obviously intentional, but still working just fine, is how the criticisms from the girl about the story being told can also apply to the primary story. It seems like it would be forced, "duh", and easy, but the actors are effective enough to make it work. They make you want exactly what happens. At the end, you're as happy as the little girl.

All the raves are about the visuals in the story within the film. It is well justified even if I think the story in the hospital, and the connection between the two main actors is more interesting and engaging. The other story is simply fascinating to watch. Some perceive it as pretentious, but I don't understand it. Because it is too good? I really can't see anything negative about showing beautiful images that you may get to see once or twice a year in a theater. If we're lucky.

The Fall is a movie made with passion, guts, and lots of hard work. It seems to be doing pretty well in the small amount of theaters it is in. I see it as one that will grow even bigger when it gets on DVD.

[Sycophant]

Nicely said, E. I'm dragging as many people as I can to see this with me again on Saturday.

[monolith94]

8, think of the injury symbolism – Roy has a broken leg: he can't walk (but he can write). Whereas the girl can walk but can't move her arm (thus write).

[monolith94]

Btw does anyone know the song in this film's trailer?

[Ezee E]

Btw does anyone know the song in this film's trailer?
Beethoven

Symphony #7, Movement #2.

Great stuff it is.

[Ezee E]

Roger Ebert article on Tarsem (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080603/PEOPLE/868926055)

Again, no CGI. Special effects, yes. But not computer generated.

[DavidSeven]

Roger Ebert article on Tarsem (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080603/PEOPLE/868926055)

Again, no CGI. Special effects, yes. But not computer generated.

That's un-fucking-believable. Really.

[Sven]

Roger Ebert article on Tarsem (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080603/PEOPLE/868926055)

Again, no CGI. Special effects, yes. But not computer generated.

This article doesn't explain the bug crawling underneath the skin, nor does it say, definitively, that NO CGI was used. It's just talking about the artificial rendering of location. The arrows, people, the arrows.

[monolith94]

Well, so long as the effects look good and are effective, should we really dwell too much upon their construction?

[Sven]

Well, so long as the effects look good and are effective, should we really dwell too much upon their construction?

Only those of us who are interested in the craft of motion pictures. :)

[monolith94]

Well, there's the craft of motion pictures, and then there's the craft of effects, and everything in-between. I guess the craft of effects just doesn't interest me as much as the craft of cinematography.

[Sven]

Well, there's the craft of motion pictures, and then there's the craft of effects

Not separate things in this context. He did those tricks with a camera.

[monolith94]

Right, but some of the tricks he didn't do with a camera. And in anycase, those "tricks" he did with his camera, I wouldn't call special effects but rather just great cinematography.

[Sven]

Right, but some of the tricks he didn't do with a camera. And in anycase, those "tricks" he did with his camera, I wouldn't call special effects but rather just great cinematography.

This line of discussion is pointless. Alls I'm saying is that of course it's legit to query the methods behind a film's effects. Effects that are often achieved through camera trickery (ie, impositions, color adjustments, etc). Those effects can effectively be included in "cinema", because they require film in order to even exist. You may call it "cinematography", but a horse is a horse and a special effect is a special effect.

And in the end, I think the distinction between practical and generated is essential, for what little CG there was in the film (as I'm still convinced the bug under the skin and the arrows were generated) was noticeable as such. In being so, the veil of illusion is punctured and I question the craft itself.

[monolith94]

I'll agree with you on the bug, but it didn't bother me very much; the arrows I "bought".

[Sycophant]

I think everyone in the big group I saw this with again on Saturday liked to loved it. That made me happy. Somehow on the first viewing, I was very slow to pick up on the circumstances of Roy's injury, and knowing/picking up on that at the beginning is a great asset to the film. I walked away loving it more than before.

Also, I think there's value in both the audience metaphor and monolith's writer-director metaphor. I also think there's a good deal of spiritual metaphor in there. I know Odious's place in the literal and frame story and how that works narratively, I like to see him as a God figure. (Is it too far a stretch to ponder the idea of his name as a corruption of "O, Deus?")

Anyway, I find that all three readings work beautifully, even simultaneously. And combined with real visual beauty and fantastic performances, they make this the present film to beat for 2008.

[Beau]

All the raves are about the visuals in the story within the film. It is well justified even if I think the story in the hospital, and the connection between the two main actors is more interesting and engaging. The other story is simply fascinating to watch. Some perceive it as pretentious, but I don't understand it. Because it is too good? I really can't see anything negative about showing beautiful images that you may get to see once or twice a year in a theater. If we're lucky.

This is the part the befuddles me, to be honest. People chastise the film for being self-indulgent and self-serving. I cannot fathom this complaint. The young man is consciously giving the girl a wondrous narrative to keep her attention. As she imagines the story, we watch her mental concoction. How else is the movie supposed to look? Of course it's grand and beautiful. This is a child's interpretation of a wild fantasy.

[D_Davis]

So this movie ruled.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tarsem never directed another film. He doesn't need to. With The Fall, he has said and shown enough to occupy an entire lifetime.

I think it's an instant masterpiece.

[Ezee E]

So this movie ruled.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tarsem never directed another film. He doesn't need to. With The Fall, he has said and shown enough to occupy an entire lifetime.

I think it's an instant masterpiece.
Welcome back and well said!

[Wryan]

Cross-pollinating from the film discussion thread:

Liked The Fall well enough. A double billing of this and the better Baron Munchausen (or a triple with the still-better Pan's Labyrinth) would be terrific fun, I think. The Fall wasn't quite as visually bracing as I expected it to be. Maybe expectations were too high, plenty of great punch in many scenes though.

Directions/Resurrection scene for Best Scene of the Year.....and Best Dance Remix of the Year as well.

Damn, Lee Pace. Damn, son.

[Boner M]

I'm hoping boner and Derek see this film eventually. They should be on my side.... I hope.
Kinda half and half. I thought the sub-Dali imaginary sequences were kinda kitschy for the most part, but I found the hospital scenes to be considerably more moving despite getting progressively maudlin toward the end. However, the final scene in the hospital and the accompanying montage of silent film 'falls' (along the with the young girl's naive voiceover) was an incredibly potent testament to the role that subjectivity and memory plays in how one reacts to storytelling... so potent, that I wished the film preceding it had been more compelling.

An admirable effort, I guess... definitely think the drubbing it's received in some circles has been a rather kneejerk response.

[Yxklyx]

Kinda half and half. I thought the sub-Dali imaginary sequences were kinda kitschy for the most part, but I found the hospital scenes to be considerably more moving despite getting progressively maudlin toward the end. However, the final scene in the hospital and the accompanying montage of silent film 'falls' (along the with the young girl's naive voiceover) was an incredibly potent testament to the role that subjectivity and memory plays in how one reacts to storytelling... so potent, that I wished the film preceding it had been more compelling.

An admirable effort, I guess... definitely think the drubbing it's received in some circles has been a rather kneejerk response.

I thought the film lacked cohesion in a great many places - like the jarring Quay Brothers-like animation sequence. The ending montage was excellent but it belonged in another movie - one about stunt men, which this one was not. A mishmash of disparate scenes and ideas does not make for a good movie. Nice to look at at times but dreadfully dull in others.

[D_Davis]

The ending montage was excellent but it belonged in another movie - one about stunt men, which this one was not.

The entire film is about stuntmen and the physicality of filmmaking. It is an ode to an era long gone, an era that was made by the blood, sweat, and tears of actual people.

The stuntman's fall, THE FALL if you will (hence the title of the film), was the catalyst for the entire narrative.

It couldn't really be more about stuntmen.

[Ezee E]

Saw it again. If people don't like this, I'll lose faith in humanity.

[Qrazy]

I liked it quite a bit, the little girl was fantastic. I do agree with those that felt Tarsem cribbed a bit too much from other sources... Ashes and Snow, Baraka, Brothers Quay, etc... just a bit much at times. Also felt there were some tonal inconsistencies or a certain tonal awkwardness in many of the imaginary sequences... but I further agree that most of the hospital stuff was quality.

[Yxklyx]

The entire film is about stuntmen and the physicality of filmmaking. It is an ode to an era long gone, an era that was made by the blood, sweat, and tears of actual people.

The stuntman's fall, THE FALL if you will (hence the title of the film), was the catalyst for the entire narrative.

It couldn't really be more about stuntmen.

Other than the cool opening and ending scenes, the movie could have been about two writers - so no, it's not really about stuntmen, IMHO.

[Pop Trash]

Does this movie get any better after the first half hour? So far it's kind of cringe inducing. It might work as a kid's movie but other than that I just don't know. It's like The Princess Bride meets the cheeseball imagery of some self-serious prog-rock band.

[number8]

It's like The Princess Bride meets the cheeseball imagery of some self-serious prog-rock band.

You do realize what you just described sounds like pure awesomeness?

[D_Davis]

Saw it again. If people don't like this, I'll lose faith in humanity.

That.

[Watashi]

E can safely lose faith in humanity, because this film still resides in my bottom ten so far this year.

[Ezee E]

E can safely lose faith in humanity, because this film still resides in my bottom ten so far this year.
Neg repped!

[Spinal]

Yeah, not buying this one. It starts out promisingly enough and I always like the use of bold, saturated colors. But I found that I disliked it more and more as the film went on. The final third is particularly dreadful as the film's shallowness is exposed in full. It becomes clear that the filmmakers have nothing substantial to offer but a little girl forced to cry for an agonizing length of time. The film's attempts at humor never work. The film's fantasy world is never appealing enough to forgive the lack of narrative purpose. The emotional manipulation in the 'realistic' scenes approaches embarrassing. If it weren't pretty to look at, there would almost nothing here of value beyond the little girl's performance.

[Pop Trash]

Yeah, not buying this one. It starts out promisingly enough and I always like the use of bold, saturated colors. But I found that I disliked it more and more as the film went on. The final third is particularly dreadful as the film's shallowness is exposed in full. It becomes clear that the filmmakers have nothing substantial to offer but a little girl forced to cry for an agonizing length of time. The film's attempts at humor never work. The film's fantasy world is never appealing enough to forgive the lack of narrative purpose. The emotional manipulation in the 'realistic' scenes approaches embarrassing. If it weren't pretty to look at, there would almost nothing here of value beyond the little girl's performance.

Word. If you disliked Speed Racer as well, you're my new best friend.

[Raiders]

Yeah, not buying this one. It starts out promisingly enough and I always like the use of bold, saturated colors. But I found that I disliked it more and more as the film went on. The final third is particularly dreadful as the film's shallowness is exposed in full. It becomes clear that the filmmakers have nothing substantial to offer but a little girl forced to cry for an agonizing length of time. The film's attempts at humor never work. The film's fantasy world is never appealing enough to forgive the lack of narrative purpose. The emotional manipulation in the 'realistic' scenes approaches embarrassing. If it weren't pretty to look at, there would almost nothing here of value beyond the little girl's performance.

I actually thought as far as acting went (since the little girl, as Tarsem has admitted, wasn't really acting) Lee Pace did an outstanding job with the admittedly sappy and obviously manipulative real world scenes. But then, I don't think you can discount the smart choice of using an actress whose language barrier and lack of some cognitive understanding and how that feeds into the "emotional manipulation." For her, this truly is a remarkably traumatizing experience near the end, and I find the scene where Pace has to confront his own manipulation of her and stare into her eyes as her whole fantasy world is essentially crushed extremely emotional. I think if anything the film confronts suicide as the selfish and cowardice act it is by placing Pace's demons squarely on the shoulders of an unknowing child.

I said it before, but the fantasy stuff is evocatively staged, but for me it is the real world stuff that actually makes me give it a positive score.

[Mysterious Dude]

The next time Tarsem Singh makes a movie, I will pay absolutely no attention to the critics.


The ending montage was excellent but it belonged in another movie - one about stunt men, which this one was not.I think the main point of the montage was that Roy had decided not to kill himself and move on with his life. I thought it was quite poignant.

[Skitch]

This movie was fucking brilliant storytelling. Loved every minute of it.

[Ezee E]

Yup, looks like it'll stay in my top five for the year.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I should be watching this soon. My wife rented it from Netflix, and I told her not to watch it without me.

[Boner M]

I'm really having a hard time remembering what I liked about this film.

[number8]

I'm really having a hard time remembering what I liked about this film.

Very easy for me to remember, since it's only one thing:

Everything.

[megladon8]

I'm surprised this film is so loved here.

I really wasn't too impressed - and I was hoping and expecting to love it.

Not to say that my own tastes are a guage of MatchCut's...I just don't see what's so special about this one.

[Ezee E]

I'm surprised this film is so loved here.

I really wasn't too impressed - and I was hoping and expecting to love it.

Not to say that my own tastes are a guage of MatchCut's...I just don't see what's so special about this one.
Read the thread again.

However, I will say that it loses a bit of its magic on the smaller screen. I would really like to have a Blu-Ray player at some point because this would just be grand to see on it.

[megladon8]

Read the thread again.


What do I have to read again?

I just went through and yeah, most people here really liked it.

[number8]

What do I have to read again?

I just went through and yeah, most people here really liked it.

He's referring to the fact that everyone who loved it stated reasons why they did in the thread, so that would provide you with an answer.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Very easy for me to remember, since it's only one thing:

Everything.

Wurd.

[Mara]

I took a long time before finally watching this, and I liked it very much. It wasn't life-changing or anything, but it was beautiful and the acting was excellent.

It actually convinced me to go and rewatch The Cell, but my opinion of that hadn't changed much: a good idea that falls to pieces.

[DavidSeven]

This Match-Cut idiosyncrasy gets my stamp of approval.

[Ezee E]

It actually convinced me to go and rewatch The Cell, but my opinion of that hadn't changed much: a good idea that falls to pieces.

I did the same. Fabulous to look at, but ultimately stupid.

[Spinal]

Fabulous to look at, but ultimately stupid.

But The Fall is less fabulous to look at and even stupider.

[Mysterious Dude]

I still love The Cell.

[megladon8]

I still love The Cell.


Me too.

Jennifer Lopez was surprisingly good in it.

And what a great final confrontation.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Me too.

Jennifer Lopez was surprisingly good in it.

And what a great final confrontation.

I think it's a damn good flick. The procedural stuff isn't terribly exciting, but how could it be, when the interior of Stargher's mind is so beautifully twisted?

[Ezee E]

I think it's a damn good flick. The procedural stuff isn't terribly exciting, but how could it be, when the interior of Stargher's mind is so beautifully twisted?
Exactly. Although I saw it a second time trying to be more forgiving, and the procedural stuff is just kind of bad.

[baby doll]

I wrote about this for my blog when it was in Busan.

Singh's mise en scène is the shit. Why is does that scene take place in front of the Taj Mahal? Because it's awesome, that's why.

It's been a long time since I saw The Cell but I liked that, too.

[Thirdmango]

So I didn't read anything about this film before seeing it, and didn't hear anything. I just knew that my friend who I was with wanted to see it. That being said, I liked the movie okay. I thought it was enjoyable at times and when it was done I thought it was fun but not something I would go out and buy. I posted a small review for it on my blog and then KABOOM, I got bombarded by the insanity that this movie has developed. It's either the best movie ever or the worst movie ever. I thought it was a good movie with some things that didn't work for me, I never found myself really falling into the movie and I always felt disconnected from the characters but I liked the visuals and some of the dialogue and moments in the film. Basically I find I'm one of the only people who doesn't have a very strong view of the film, and when you say that to someone with a strong view they think you've gone and sullied everything they believe in. I mean 3 stars is a good review for the most part, I guess not when someone gave it 8 out of 4. Another friend brought up movies like Citizen Kane and The Godfather how everyone has strong opinions so why would I not have one? I think it's mostly because I had no introduction to the movie before hand, when people see those movies they've already heard they are great and that there's strong opinions on it. So having not had that I'm surprised at how strong everyone is about this one.

[Li Lili]

I saw The Fall by Tarsem today at the movie theater. I guess many of you have already seen it.
And yes, the cinematography is really amazing, the landscapes, the costumes, the colours, the pace....

[Mysterious Dude]

The next time Tarsem Singh makes a movie, I will pay absolutely no attention to the critics.
I know I said this, but... Immortals? I don't know.

[Russ]

I don't think there's a better visual stylist among the current crop of filmmakers than Tarsem. Whatever faults others find in his work, lack of art gallery-quality cinematic images is certainly not one of them.

[MadMan]

Part of the reason I loved The Fall though was because of how awesome Lee Pace is. At least when he's not making crappy family movies or rom-coms. But when he's making a truly entertaining fairy tale style fable with gorgeous visuals and a good, solid story. Or being part of a short lived funny and delightful TV series with the lovely Anna Friel. Its good.

[lovejuice]

I love The Fall. Its less than lukewarm critical consensus baffles me actually.

[Sven]

I love The Fall. Its less than lukewarm critical consensus baffles me actually.

Critical consensus is retarded anyway.

[Derek]

Critical consensus is retarded anyway.

As is The Fall.

[D_Davis]

The Fall is a masterpiece.

[Derek]

The Fall is a masterpiece.

...of retardation? ;)

[MadMan]

*Checks rating* 90/100. Sounds good. Good movie. ***/****. Wahoo. I liked it. Extreme reactions sure are fun :P

[Skitch]

The Fall is a masterpiece.

Completely agree. I don't go 'M' word lightly or often.

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm assuming "masterpiece" has a different definition where you guys are from.

[Russ]

Nostalgia.

This was such a fun thread.

I have nothing new to add. :pritch:

[Thirdmango]

I saw it a second time recently and liked it more then the first time.

Also I don't know if this is new but the movie is now on Netflix Instant.