Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[Dukefrukem]

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[Irish]

How many of you are going opening day?

[Skitch]

I'll wait for crowds to relax.

[TGM]

I’ve decided I’m going to skip this one.

[Dukefrukem]

How many of you are going opening day?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-12/256/man-raising-hand-light-skin-tone.png

[Ezee E]

hmm. probably a week or two afterwards. We'll see if I can avoid spoilers.

Certainly the least excited that I've ever been for any Star Wars movie though, and only seeing it out of obligation it seems.

[[ETM]]

Wouldn't go at all if it wasn't for friends who wanted to all go see the premiere together and we got tickets.

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[transmogrifier]

I'll see it next week when I'm back in New Zealand. I don't have much choice, because the shithole city I'm from with one cinema and five screens is literally showing no other movies for the entirety of the week. Was hoping to catch Jojo Rabbit at least.

[Pop Trash]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-12/256/man-raising-hand-light-skin-tone.png

Babysitter?

[Skitch]

Babysitter?

What? Are you asking for recommendations?

[Dukefrukem]

Babysitter?

Yup. Got a big breakfast planned along side the crowded 11am showing. lol.

[Ezee E]

What? Are you asking for recommendations?

Think he's nominating himself ;)

[Ivan Drago]

Seeing on Saturday. I just want to get it over with.

[Scar]

I’ll be seeing it martini in hand tomorrow night. Hopefully Bac0n doesn’t have too many martinis this time....

[[ETM]]

Just got out, so that's over with.

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[Dead & Messed Up]

SPOILERS

Very disappointing. Occasionally offers some fun new corners in the Star Wars universe, like a planet in the throes of an every-42-years Hindi-esque celebration, or one planet that seems composed entirely of back alleys. A mechanic on that planet named Babu Frink has some of the best bits in the movie; he's of the same aggressively cute toyetic mode as Porgs and Baby Yoda. But you can feel the film rush from beat to beat, so eager to evoke every element from the past six films (and one or two from the prequels, although you can tell the flick doesn't like to) that it feels like both the world's longest and shortest curtain call. The film takes the most convenient elements of The Last Jedi and the most shameless textures of The Force Awakens (which had this film's appeals to nostalgia but never this film's breathless, desperate frenzy). The repurposed Leia scenes don't work. Finn's relationship to Rey is reduced to him shouting her name, almost telling her something at one point, and then handwaving the thing he didn't say later on, a standard "romantic" subplot that was kidded 15 years ago in, God help me, Eight Legged Freaks. (It's also a sign that, despite his feature success, Abrams is a TV writer at heart, always eager to keep you hooked with whatever he can, no matter how artificial, before the next commercial break.)

What really cheesed me off is that-- DOUBLE SPOILERS

this film retcons Rey's lineage so that not only were her parents protecting her all along (instead of abandoning her), but they were protecting her from her grandfather... Sheev Palpatine. And while the film struggles to set up the idea that Rey will not be defined by that parentage, the problem is that she so obviously and completely is. In fact, the entire fate of the galaxy rests on her only because of her Very Important Bloodline. It's the film talking out of both sides of its mouth, wanting all the pleasure of a legacy name while dealing with none of the actual implications: how small that makes these movies feel, and ultimately how cowardly. I know people didn't like The Last Jedi. I did, and we disagree, and it's cool. But if there was anything good about it, wouldn't it be the idea that Rey doesn't have to be the Child of a Very Important Person? That we don't have to dream of dynastic inheritances and bequeathment? (Hell, you could even make this story function just fine without that. Palpatine could simply be impressed with her strength in the Force and go from there.) (You could also not include Palpatine and just pick up the last film's ending spot of Ben as a monstrous supreme leader on the verge of a coup attempt and Rey and her friends struggling to rebuild a resistance, but it is what it is.)

I don't know if this is the worst of this series, but it's definitely the most shameless, the most frantic, the safest, and the most superficial. A film full of signifiers that signify nothing except their own existence, built with fetch quests, mortared with characters going towards something because the Force is guiding them (a detail that reminds me of, God help me again, Dean Koontz' Odd Thomas and his "psychic magnetism" that leads him directly to plot points), and ultimately foregone conclusions. Maybe this isn't even the fault of Abrams. Maybe he got bamboozled by co-writer Chris Terrio, who similarly contributed to the non-flavored yogurt of Justice League and similarly jammed a talk with a ghost dad into the middle of Batman v. Superman.

[Skitch]

The double spoilers bit is what I most feared. From the very beginning I said that was so unimportant, and focusing on it a complete derail. JJ delivers as expected.

[Mal]

Its fine. Beyond Ridley and Driver, who cares. They’re terrific though, and i’ll admit I like the ending of this a lot. It is, after all, a story about the struggle between light and dark, balance and this and that. I love John Boyega, but the guy got more work on Hot Ones a few weeks ago than in any of these films. All the other characters can die for all I care- none of them are interesting in the slightest.
but I will say YIKES that Chewie death fake out made me pretty emotional- not just because its Chewie, but because Rey is so destroyed by it. Her Struggle to deal with the awesome yet awful power she has I did feel warranted the conclusion of this story.

[Scar]

Maybe it’s the liquor talking, but that was a steaming pile of dog shit.

Ok, maybe a touch harsh.

It’s like a bag of day old Burger King Whoppers. It gets the job done, but you seriously regret it.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Maybe it’s the liquor talking, but that was a steaming pile of dog shit.

Ok, maybe a touch harsh.

It’s like a bag of day old Burger King Whoppers. It gets the job done, but you seriously regret it.

Great minds; described it to my brother as a reheated burrito.

[Irish]

Maybe it’s the liquor talking, but that was a steaming pile of dog shit.

Ok, maybe a touch harsh.

It’s like a bag of day old Burger King Whoppers. It gets the job done, but you seriously regret it.

whaaaaaaaa? for real?????

shocked as this might be the most negative reaction I've seen you post,

(also man the BK analogy hits home, oof,)

ETA: is this worse than phantom menace ??

[[ETM]]

ETA: is this worse than phantom menace ??

Noooo, no, no, no. TPM is just beyond words.

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[Dead & Messed Up]

I'll go out on a limb and say it's at least equally bad to it. It lacks the racist caricatures and utterly barren engagement level, but it also lacks any sort of aesthetic peculiarity or interest. There's not a single sequence in this film that actually unfolds with the clarity, structure, and escalation of the pod race or the lightsaber fight in TPM. (A saber fight on some wreckage comes close, I guess.)

[Scar]

whaaaaaaaa? for real?????

shocked as this might be the most negative reaction I've seen you post,

(also man the BK analogy hits home, oof,)

ETA: is this worse than phantom menace ??


It’s like the last season of game of thrones, but squeezed into two hours and change. They could’ve called it Star Wars- Kitchen Sink.

I’ll watch it again at home, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth.

[Dukefrukem]

Maybe it’s the liquor talking, but that was a steaming pile of dog shit.

Ok, maybe a touch harsh.

It’s like a bag of day old Burger King Whoppers. It gets the job done, but you seriously regret it.

I want to go to a showing with bacon and scar....

[bac0n]

I want to go to a showing with bacon and scar....

The most entertaining part of the film by far were the Colt-45 jokes Scar and I were cracking every time Lando made an appearance.

[Dukefrukem]

1 hour and 15 minutes to the wife's an I first date alone from baby. Got a big breakfast planned. Maybe we'll hit the grocery store right after.... maybe home depot. I dunno. I don't know if there will be enough time.

[Dead & Messed Up]

One of the most telling details in this film is that

in the last film, the "sacred Jedi texts" were symbolic of wisdom and history and the importance of carrying things from the past while not being tied down by over-reverence (which is why the film saves the texts but burns the tree-shrine). Here, Rey uses one of the texts to learn about how two doodads will lead to a plot device.

[Skitch]

1 hour and 15 minutes to the wife's an I first date alone from baby. Got a big breakfast planned. Maybe we'll hit the grocery store right after.... maybe home depot. I dunno. I don't know if there will be enough time.

hahaha I love married Duke. Welcome to the club of thats your forever date night agenda.

Can everyone dropping a review do me a favor? Just start with reminding me if you loved or hated the Last Jedi so I have context.

[Scar]

The most entertaining part of the film by far were the Colt-45 jokes Scar and I were cracking every time Lando made an appearance.

Works every time.

[Scar]

I want to go to a showing with bacon and scar....

Better train your liver.

[Scar]

hahaha I love married Duke. Welcome to the club of thats your forever date night agenda.

Can everyone dropping a review do me a favor? Just start with reminding me if you loved or hated the Last Jedi so I have context.

Initially indifferent, probably due to the fact I found out right before the showing that I needed to put in ten hours of OT the next day.

Its grown on me at home. I like grumpy Luke. However, the casino sequence can straight up disappear.

[Henry Gale]

I actually got to see this Wednesday night and I really liked it despite having so many fundamental issues with it. It's weird, like I was very conscious of my aversions to things it was doing despite still being very invested and thrilled by most of it. Almost like having a conversation with a gorgeous person, and you're still attracted to them despite them telling you things you fundamentally disgaree with. So not sure if that means this movie is shallow or I am (but I like myself better than I like this movie) but this there are still riches in it that wowed me and even moved me to tears when I wasn't frustrated with it.

Basically, as someone who is certain The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie of my lifetime (and even having re-watched the De-Specialized versions of the original trilogy I was born after just this week, I think TLJ rivals them too), this movie often feels like it's being forced to apologize for something it was absolutely in the right for doing. A lot of thematic and canonical "Psych!''s that made it hard for me to want to engage, but already being onboard, I didn't hate the journey it took once it absolutely became clear it was committing to those choices.

I'm being as cagey as I am because I even think knowing the general reaction to this is a spoiler in a way that it will deflate anticipation or sour the experience. I am saying I think it's very good even though it's undoing some very good pieces of its prior achievements.

So again, I kinda loved it despite it, and I hope more people do too, but I can't fault them if they don't.


One of the most telling details in this film is that

in the last film, the "sacred Jedi texts" were symbolic of wisdom and history and the importance of carrying things from the past while not being tied down by over-reverence (which is why the film saves the texts but burns the tree-shrine). Here, Rey uses one of the texts to learn about how two doodads will lead to a plot device.

I will say this, Johnson's film, whether it was his call or not, deliberately shows her having them in the final scene with the Resistance. But otherwise you're totally right about how it functions thematically.

[Irish]

I'll go out on a limb and say it's at least equally bad to it. It lacks the racist caricatures and utterly barren engagement level, but it also lacks any sort of aesthetic peculiarity or interest. There's not a single sequence in this film that actually unfolds with the clarity, structure, and escalation of the pod race or the lightsaber fight in TPM. (A saber fight on some wreckage comes close, I guess.)


It’s like the last season of game of thrones, but squeezed into two hours and change. They could’ve called it Star Wars- Kitchen Sink.

I’ll watch it again at home, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth.

Oh man. I guess SW still has its hooks in me because hearing this seriously bums me out.

(On the brighter side, there's one more episode of BABY YODA & FRIENDS next week! :D)

[Ezee E]

Oh yeah, SW definitely has its hooks in me. It's like a favorite sports team that is last in the division type of feeling. You're rooting for the franchise, but you're not really paying attention...... for now.

So instead, you're looking at the AAA up and comers, and paying attention to the Mandalorian.

[Dukefrukem]

Yikes.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I will say this, Johnson's film, whether it was his call or not, deliberately shows her having them in the final scene with the Resistance. But otherwise you're totally right about how it functions thematically.

I think we're in agreement? The Last Jedi burns the shrine but saves the texts, because the film isn't actually about "killing" the past so much as it's about avoiding fetishization, orthodoxy, and stifling reverence. My point is that, The Last Jedi gives the books symbolic/thematic meaning,

and here, they're a key that unlocks the next plot gate. It's the difference between giving a story object actual meaning and simply having it be part of an end-video-game fetch quest.

[megladon8]

I feel like some people are giving way too much slack to Johnson over the thematics he tried to present in TLJ.

The simple fact that he tried to show this criticism of over reverence does not automatically make it a good film.

He failed miserably in presenting these ideas.

[Dukefrukem]

I didn't spoil tag anything.

Preface: Mild Yay for Force Awakens when opened; eventually grew to dislike due to retreads; Liked The Last Jedi when released, eventually grew to dislike due to length and character decisions-

I knew this movie was going to be trouble when we are introduced to the dumbest McGuffin in the history of the Star Wars lore, in the first 5 minutes of the film. For whatever reason, during whatever period in time, a device was designed, to allow someone, to track where Palpatine has been hiding for 40 years (on some legendary Sith Planet called Exogol. The planet should be called 'Lightning' since every 3 seconds there's a gigantic lightning strike somewhere near you). This presumes that Palpatine even knew where he would be hiding at the end of the Return of the Jedi, because one of the devices is located on the Death Star wreckage. They made two of these devices, again, for whatever reason, (and that reason is only so the script can show one of them being destroyed and NEEDING to use the second one) and then put the locations of both devices inscribed on a dagger, that was in the possession of Rey's parent's bounty hunter.

D&MU said it best; Unsure if this is the worst because the pacing is so frantic in the first half that, and they introduce a lot of Star Warsy stuff that the world building and new characters introduced is kinda neat (probably the neatest in the new trilogy) and fun (fun in a Brandon Fraiser's Mummy kind of way) but it's definitely the most shameless and it's definitely the safest thing you could ever expect. I hated most of the major decisions; the reconnig of Rey's lineage, making the Death Star and Starkiller base complete afterthoughts with a "new weapon" (that also has the ability to completely destroy a planet) attached to every Star Destroyer that Papatine pulls out of thin air, and three of the worst script reveals.

1) Are we really made to believe that General Hux was so butt-hurt from Kylo yelling at him in the past two movies that he decided to betray the First Order and help the Resistance?

2) We meet Lando for a couple of minutes (what's he doing on that desert planet btw? why isn't he hanging out in Cloud City?)- does the film think the audience is THAT dumb that he's not going to show up in the final battle?

3) Chewie's death fake out; I shouldn't expect more from Disney (and the history of misdirected deaths in the Marvel franchise) but the impact that had on me initially... to take that away feels so cheap. That scene is compounded by showcasing Rey's force power and how much training she has been doing off camera. She almost pulls off a Starkiller (not the base, the Sith apprentice. Look it up) And a few scenes later it's all wiped away.

Then there's the obvious stuff; like.. where were all those Star Destroyers for 40 years that the Emperor just pulls out of the ice? His thousands of followers were living down in the cave? Were there beds? and Kitchens and stuff down there? Were those real people? Or real Siths?

Remember the hot potato exposition from the Force Awakens when they try and figure out how to destroy Starkiller Base? Well that happens two more times in this film to explain to us dumb movie watching people that Palpatine has been experimenting with "Dark Science... secrets only the Sith know" (with no actual evidence btw this is just said at the Resistance base). And then more hot potato exposition later in the film when they are planning their attack against those 37,000 Star Destroyers.

I guess I can only be so happy that this movie doesn't involve time travel. But there are a lot of great new alien characters introduced that I enjoyed. For a moment there in the first act, I got a feeling of TOT when all of our characters are in the Millenium Falcon together. Its what I like most about Star Wars; when a group of characters go on a journey- maybe get separated, complete some tasks and rejoin at the end. Didn't hate the linking to Mandalorian and Baby Yoda. I can't recall if force healing has been introduced anywhere else in Star Wars canon?

Oh also, Palpatine melting Raiders of the Lost Ark style was pretty cool.

And that Kylo Rey kiss? What was that about?

[Milky Joe]

I actually got to see this Wednesday night and I really liked it despite having so many fundamental issues with it. It's weird, like I was very conscious of my aversions to things it was doing despite still being very invested and thrilled by most of it. Almost like having a conversation with a gorgeous person, and you're still attracted to them despite them telling you things you fundamentally disgaree with. So not sure if that means this movie is shallow or I am (but I like myself better than I like this movie) but this there are still riches in it that wowed me and even moved me to tears when I wasn't frustrated with it.

Basically, as someone who is certain The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie of my lifetime (and even having re-watched the De-Specialized versions of the original trilogy I was born after just this week, I think TLJ rivals them too), this movie often feels like it's being forced to apologize for something it was absolutely in the right for doing. A lot of thematic and canonical "Psych!''s that made it hard for me to want to engage, but already being onboard, I didn't hate the journey it took once it absolutely became clear it was committing to those choices.

I'm being as cagey as I am because I even think knowing the general reaction to this is a spoiler in a way that it will deflate anticipation or sour the experience. I am saying I think it's very good even though it's undoing some very good pieces of its prior achievements.

So again, I kinda loved it despite it, and I hope more people do too, but I can't fault them if they don't.



I will say this, Johnson's film, whether it was his call or not, deliberately shows her having them in the final scene with the Resistance. But otherwise you're totally right about how it functions thematically.

very good post, sums up my thoughts

I'm past getting angry about this shit. It was aggressively dumb at times but I had a lot of fun.

[Skitch]

this movie doesn't involve time travel.

Thank god

[Irish]

Yeah I was worried about the time travel thing & was too afraid to ask about it.

Joe's reaction gives me a smidgen of hope, too. "Aggressively dumb but I had fun" is exactly the sort of experience I'm looking for.

[Irish]

In short: Star Wars is a land of contrasts & I sincerely hope LucasFilm pours all its resources into making a Baby Chewbacca show for Disney+

[Dukefrukem]

Oh and Meg was right about Rose . She's given absolutely zip to do. And it's explained in the most insulting way possible.

[Skitch]

and yes, I'm reading spoilers before seeing it, and I'm sad I don't care because everything I guessed it would be it sounds like it is after announcing JJ was back.

[Milky Joe]

Yes, I will say that the complete removal of Rose's personality and reducing her to a one-note rebel soldier was one of the more depressingly cynical retcons of TLJ

like there's an actual repeat of what happens in TLJ, with Finn making another self-sacrifice play (with far less stakes or emotional build up, of course), and Rose just kinda looks on and is (silently) like, 'oh okay, whatever'

[Ezee E]

I started to read Duke's review, thinking, "I didn't spoiler anything." Then... I was like, that liar, and I looked up and saw he meant that he didn't spoiler tag anything...

So then I called myself silly, stopped reading, and will return at a future time.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I feel like some people are giving way too much slack to Johnson over the thematics he tried to present in TLJ.

The simple fact that he tried to show this criticism of over reverence does not automatically make it a good film.

He failed miserably in presenting these ideas.

FWIW, I'm not saying the simple presence of these themes automatically makes it a good film. But for the sake of argument, even if The Last Jedi does fail at that, I'll still take The Last Jedi trying to invest the books with thematic meaning and stumbling rather than JJ Abrams using plot objects like they're the artifact hunt at the end of a Metroid Prime game.

And in general, I'll take a Star War that genuinely tries and overreaches over one that offers up iconography like pre-chewed paste to baby-bird into my mouth.

[Milky Joe]

I feel like some people are giving way too much slack to Johnson over the thematics he tried to present in TLJ.

The simple fact that he tried to show this criticism of over reverence does not automatically make it a good film.

He failed miserably in presenting these ideas.

wrong

[Irish]

did someone say 'baby'????



https://i.imgur.com/dpXQ5Tx.gif

[megladon8]

wrong

Great points all around.

[Scar]

FWIW, I'm not saying the simple presence of these themes automatically makes it a good film. But for the sake of argument, even if The Last Jedi does fail at that, I'll still take The Last Jedi trying to invest the books with thematic meaning and stumbling rather than JJ Abrams using plot objects like they're the artifact hunt at the end of a Metroid Prime game.

And in general, I'll take a Star War that genuinely tries and overreaches over one that offers up iconography like pre-chewed paste to baby-bird into my mouth.

You always were better with them thar words than me.

[Milky Joe]

Great points all around.

I respond to what I'm given!

[Dukefrukem]

I started to read Duke's review, thinking, "I didn't spoiler anything." Then... I was like, that liar, and I looked up and saw he meant that he didn't spoiler tag anything...

So then I called myself silly, stopped reading, and will return at a future time.

My bad Eric. :-/

[Scar]

I almost threw my glass when Chewie got his medal. I was so done with the movie it wasn’t even funny.

[Dukefrukem]

How about that Deus ex machina ending?

Somehow word got out about this pending attack on the 37,000 star destroyers, and 370,000 random people's shipped happen to show up to help fight?

[Dukefrukem]

I almost threw my glass when Chewie got his medal. I was so done with the movie it wasn’t even funny.

I laughed at that.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I almost threw my glass when Chewie got his medal. I was so done with the movie it wasn’t even funny.

At what point in any of these goddamn movies was there any indication whatsoever that Chewie cared? FUCK.

[Scar]

How about that Deus ex machina ending?

Somehow word got out about this pending attack on the 37,000 star destroyers, and 370,000 random people's shipped happen to show up to help fight?

Lando promised Colt 45.

[Scar]

At what point in any of these goddamn movies was there any indication whatsoever that Chewie cared? FUCK.

Sigh. Rise of The Kitchen Sink makes me like Last Jedi so much more.

[Dead & Messed Up]

How about that Deus ex machina ending?

Somehow word got out about this pending attack on the 37,000 star destroyers, and 370,000 random people's shipped happen to show up to help fight?

When Luke tries to convince Han to help in the original film, you see it. Han says no, he packs his money, Chewie gets upset with him, Han insists but you can see the doubt in his face. That's why it's so satisfying when he comes back! In this film, Lando goes away, you have no idea how he accomplishes this task, convincing people to join them. It just happens because the story doesn't work if they don't.

And I can't believe that Abrams/Terrio decided the threat in this film would be a bunch of Star Destroyers with planet-destroying lasers. It's literally like JJ said, in the course of this trilogy, you know what's scarier than a Death Star, a much bigger Death Star like Starkiller, and what's scarier than that, that's right fuckos, how about ten thousand thousand Death Stars.

[Milky Joe]

Can we all just agree that Babu was a delight? I couldn't stop laughing about him at one point. I prolly looked a little insane.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Can we all just agree that Babu was a delight? I couldn't stop laughing about him at one point. I prolly looked a little insane.

Yes. 3PO had some surprisingly good lines too.

[Scar]

Can we all just agree that Babu was a delight? I couldn't stop laughing about him at one point. I prolly looked a little insane.

Yes! Something I enjoyed!

[Dukefrukem]

I have spoken.

1.Return of the Jedi 1983 ★★★★★
We start the film with our heroes divided and end the film coming together. There's something to be said about the journey these characters go through and where they end. Jedi has the best balance of the characters and the stakes are real.

2.The Empire Strikes Back 1980 ★★★★★
Love the journey- Heroes start together, break apart, come back together, only to end on a huge cliffhanger.

3.Star Wars 1977 ★★★★½
There's probably more world building in this small film than there is in any of the others combined. What Lucas was able to do on this budget, with 1977 technology, continues to impress.

4.Rogue One: A Star Wars Story 2016 ★★★
Dark, humorless, and plenty of fan service, but scale and stakes are well represented.

5.Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace 1999 ★★★
Has the best use of lightsabers in the canon films, best lightsaber battle, pod-racing adds some wonderful SFX, but too much trade federation and diplomatic talk. Comic relief is a huge miss.

6.Solo: A Star Wars Story 2018 ★★★
Out of the newer films, probably has the most Star Wars feel to it with the Millennium Falcon, Lando and Chewy playing major roles. Looks very ugly.

7.Star Wars: The Force Awakens 2015 ★★½
Too much fan service, too many retreads, unoriginal ideas and misuse of casting. BAD dialog.

8.Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2017 ★★½
Quality of character consistency drops regarding major decision making, purpose and story arcs. Unbalanced pacing, but there are choice satisfying scenes to leave tickling fans for more.

9.Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith 2005 ★★½
Solid light-saber fights but bloated script bogs down the entire film.

10.Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker 2019 ★★
TBD Tagline

11.Star Wars: Episode II – Attack of the Clones 2002 ★★
Terrible acting by Hayden Christensen, forced no chemistry love story, and a CGI mess of a battle, my eyes bleed.

12.Star Wars: The Clone Wars 2008 ★½
Unwatchable.

[Skitch]

I only really care that Clone Wars is on the bottom of every Star Wars list.

[[ETM]]

Rogue One and Episode I above... anything is simply madness. Worst use of effects with tons of pointless green screen and highly staged lifeless lightsaber "battles" are among the worst things in Episode I.

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[Scar]

;612916']Rogue One and Episode I above... anything is simply madness. Worst use of effects with tons of pointless green screen and highly staged lifeless lightsaber "battles" are among the worst things in Episode I.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

Then consider me insane. Rogue One is probably my favorite post original trilogy movie.

[megladon8]

Rogue One is a 6 with a 10 ending.

[Skitch]

;612916']Rogue One and Episode I above... anything is simply madness. Worst use of effects with tons of pointless green screen and highly staged lifeless lightsaber "battles" are among the worst things in Episode I.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

I'm not defending any entry as good...but episode 2 is the worst.

Also, using "green screen" and "lifeless lightsaber battles" as negatives to ep1 in defense of ep2? Bro...

[Dukefrukem]

;612916']Rogue One and Episode I above... anything is simply madness. Worst use of effects with tons of pointless green screen and highly staged lifeless lightsaber "battles" are among the worst things in Episode I.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

Episode One- It feels like a Star Wars movie. I dont even care about Jar Jar anymore. The pod-racing stuff is very decent. And they really showcase what true Jedi can accomplish; before Episode One, we saw Luke fumble around for three movies. After rewatching Return of the Jedi recently people forget that Luke acts more like a Sith in the opening act rather than a Jedi. Did those pig guards really need to die? Is threatening Jabba the right approach? You never see Qui-Gon act like this and It paints how and what a Jedi should be nicely. IT's only when Luke talks to Yoda a final time where he becomes more passive towards the Jedi title. And those lightsaber battles are fabulous.

Not enough credit is given to Lucas on crafting the worlds and tone for a pre-Empire world. I especially appreciate this scene more in a New Hope. "The imperial Senate will no longer be any concern for us... Fear will keep the local systems in line"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnNSnJbjdws

[Pop Trash]

Rogue One is a 6 with a 10 ending.

This. So many forgettable characters.

[Irish]

After rewatching Return of the Jedi recently people forget that Luke acts more like a Sith in the opening act rather than a Jedi. Did those pig guards really need to die? Is threatening Jabba the right approach? You never see Qui-Gon act like this

Qui-Gon got ganked like a punk.

Luke tried to murder his own father --- twice.

#SKYWALKER4LYFE

[Irish]

Then consider me insane. Rogue One is probably my favorite post original trilogy movie.

Is it because of Vader?

It's totally legit if it is ... but every time you say this I get the overwhelming sense it's because of Vader and no other reason

[Skitch]

lol...so ah...yeah, I fucked up.

Involved in three different text conversations about Star Wars. Ask my buddy how he felt about it playing out that Rey was a Palpatine. His response was "what? I haven't seen ep9 yet." Cardinal sin.

Thanks cough medicine and whiskey and flu

[megladon8]

I’ll take the emotionally charged, operatic light saber battle of ROTJ over any of the overly choreographed silliness in the prequels any day.

[Dukefrukem]

Qui-Gon got ganked like a punk.

Luke tried to murder his own father --- twice.

#SKYWALKER4LYFE

Luke acted in defense in Empire and also didn't know it was his father. He knew to expect SOMETHING but was unsure what exactly to expect.

and


RoTJ was his rage to fight his father until he finally resisted the dark side.

BTW- I've decided I don't hate Rey is related to Palpatine.

I watched Force Awakens today, and it explains a lot why Rey was able to use so much of the force untrained. Snoke then DOES tell Kylo to bring her to him (which is reinforced in Rise of Skywalker).

Luke also is shocked at how easily Rey was seduced by the dark side in the Last Jedi.

So I think I'm OK with that relationship. I just wish it was fleshed out a bit better in movie 1 and 2.

[Irish]

Luke acted in defense in Empire and also didn't know it was his father. He knew to expect SOMETHING but was unsure what exactly to expect.

and


RoTJ was his rage to fight his father until he finally resisted the dark side.

The overreach was part of the joke.

BUT.

I'm pretty sure if you pull a lightsaber on somebody, you intend to kill them. It's not like Luke wandered around Cloud City thinking, well, if Vader shows up I'll just defend myself until he goes away.

In ROTJ, if he'd gotten a lucky saber hit during his freakout and landed a blow on Vader's head instead of his wrist, the direction of the entire galaxy would have gone differently.

(This is also my only remaining beef with "Jedi" --- the ending is a copout. The film is set up for Luke to go bad, and it would have been world's more interesting if he had. Especially now, years on, because that plot point would naturally suggest half the story of Episodes 7-9.)

[megladon8]

Snoke was such a fucking waste.

But you know who was even more of a waste?

Phasma.

She was built up SO much pre-TFA, and then again for TLJ.

Did she even have 5 minutes of screen time between the two movies?

So ridiculous.

[Dukefrukem]

The overreach was part of the joke.

BUT.

I'm pretty sure if you pull a lightsaber on somebody, you intend to kill them. It's not like Luke wandered around Cloud City thinking, well, if Vader shows up I'll just defend myself until he goes away.

In ROTJ, if he'd gotten a lucky saber hit during his freakout and landed a blow on Vader's head instead of his wrist, the direction of the entire galaxy would have gone differently.

(This is also my only remaining beef with "Jedi" --- the ending is a copout. The film is set up for Luke to go bad, and it would have been world's more interesting if he had. Especially now, years on, because that plot point would naturally suggest half the story of Episodes 7-9.)

He didn't even have his lightsaber out until he was confronted by Vadar. He was walking around with his gun... and Leia was also screaming "it's a trap" as he was following them.

Totally agree with your ROTJ take; but I'm fine the way it ended. I wanted Rise of Skywalker to end that way. (basically KYlo and Rey switching roles)

[Mal]

Snoke was such a fucking waste.

But you know who was even more of a waste?

Plasma.

She was built up SO much pre-TFA, and then again for TLJ.

Did she even have 5 minutes of screen time between the two movies?

So ridiculous.

I can't give you more rep. dammit.

[Dukefrukem]

Heh "Plasma".

But if we are going to get mad at that casting we also have to get mad at Max von Sydow (who may have had more screen time) .

[Scar]

Is it because of Vader?

It's totally legit if it is ... but every time you say this I get the overwhelming sense it's because of Vader and no other reason

Yeah, I freely admit to being a Vader fan boy. Rogue one felt more like a war movie than a traditional Star Wars movie. Even without the 10/10 ending, I enjoy it. The droid is great, the movie is more ‘dark’, and it has Donnie Mother Fucking Yen as a pseudo-Jedi. If it weren’t for Vader, he would’ve been my favorite part of the movie.


....and now I’m suddenly reminded of how wasted he was in Blade II.

[Scar]

Luke going Dark Side to defeat Vader makes Last Jedi work for me. That, combined with his failure with Kylo makes him going all hermit makes sense to me. And his final confrontation with Kylo is extremely well done. I love how they emphasize the foot work in the duel.

[Skitch]

Luke going Dark Side to defeat Vader makes Last Jedi work for me. That, combined with his failure with Kylo makes him going all hermit makes sense to me. And his final confrontation with Kylo is extremely well done. I love how they emphasize the foot work in the duel.

Its totally logical. I know everyone wanted Luke to really face down Kylo and the New Order, but its the middle film. If they had actually met, Luke would've had to die at Kylo's hands, and that would've sucked. Kylo can't kill both Han and Luke, and he has to be the bad for part three, so Luke has to win but also not kill Kylo. Rian found a way for Luke to win and also fall, its perfect.

As for going all hermit, its exactly what he was taught to do by Yoda and Kenobi. As for tossing the lightsaber, he threw away his own saber in RotJ, and she handed him the saber that his father used to kill a shitload of Jedi and younglings...imagine if someone handed you a sword with a nazi emblem on it and basically said "rejoin the fight!"

[Dukefrukem]

Speaking of which, we don't really understand where maz kanata got his saber do we?

[[ETM]]

I'm not defending any entry as good...but episode 2 is the worst.

Also, using "green screen" and "lifeless lightsaber battles" as negatives to ep1 in defense of ep2? Bro...I have never defended Ep.2. It is terrible beyond any defense.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

[Scar]

Speaking of which, we don't really understand where maz kanata got his saber do we?

That’s a good question, for another time.


*crickets*

[Dead & Messed Up]

Rey Palpatine really does bother me. It's probably the thing I hate most, even more than the fact that she defeats the Emperor by murdering him. Although that's really close. Mace Windu killing the Emperor was wrong (Anakin was right to object on principled grounds). Luke trying to kill the Emperor and his father are wrong (he isn't begging his dad to kill the Emperor, he's begging his dad to do something, and we allow it from Vader because we know he's giving up his own life in the process (you know, that hacky thing where he's not killing what he hates, he's saving what he loves (i.e. INTENTIONS MATTER))). But Rey just has this insane extended moment where she uses her mighty Palpatine blood to brace those two lightsabers and deliberately melt the Emperor. There are plenty of ways to handle a final confrontation with the Emperor. Hell, I even liked the idea of the Jedi calling out to her. But her melting him has left such a bad taste in my mouth. I don't even know what this movie is trying to say with that. This was a final opportunity to make an ethical statement about what this series is. Apparently, it's "use your powerful bestowed heritage to set your opponent on fire." UGH.

[Irish]

Snoke was such a fucking waste.

But you know who was even more of a waste?

Phasma.

She was built up SO much pre-TFA, and then again for TLJ.

Did she even have 5 minutes of screen time between the two movies?

So ridiculous.

On one hand, I really thought somebody somewhere at LucasFilm would have learned a lesson from Boba Fett and Darth Maul --- don't take cool looking characters and burgeoning fan favorites and toss them aside like they're nothing.

OTOH, these movies are designed around toys first and story second.

[Dukefrukem]

OTOH, these movies are designed around toys first and story second.

Except when it came to Baby Yoda... which is bizarre.

[Scar]

OTOH, these movies are designed around toys first and story second.


https://youtu.be/vjB8XXw9y70

[Dukefrukem]

Rey Palpatine really does bother me. It's probably the thing I hate most, even more than the fact that she defeats the Emperor by murdering him. Although that's really close. Mace Windu killing the Emperor was wrong (Anakin was right to object on principled grounds). Luke trying to kill the Emperor and his father are wrong (he isn't begging his dad to kill the Emperor, he's begging his dad to do something, and we allow it from Vader because we know he's giving up his own life in the process (you know, that hacky thing where he's not killing what he hates, he's saving what he loves (i.e. INTENTIONS MATTER))). But Rey just has this insane extended moment where she uses her mighty Palpatine blood to brace those two lightsabers and deliberately melt the Emperor. There are plenty of ways to handle a final confrontation with the Emperor. Hell, I even liked the idea of the Jedi calling out to her. But her melting him has left such a bad taste in my mouth. I don't even know what this movie is trying to say with that. This was a final opportunity to make an ethical statement about what this series is. Apparently, it's "use your powerful bestowed heritage to set your opponent on fire." UGH.

I probably should have said it differently; I didn't hate Rey Palpatine retrospectively. I hate the decision ultimately, but from what we were already handed with Force Awakens and TLJ... I'm just left thinking: "Sure that's about what I expected.".

[Irish]

Exocet when it came to Baby Yoda... which is bizarre.

THIS IS BECAUSE BABY YODA IS GOOD AND PURE AND EVERYTHING THAT IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD

(and also a sign that Iger was seriously hedging his bets when it came to the show)

[Scar]

THIS IS BECAUSE BABY YODA IS GOOD AND PURE AND EVERYTHING THAT IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD

(and also a sign that Iger was seriously hedging his bets when it came to the show)

As someone who NEEDS a good villain, I can’t stop wanting to keep baby Yoda safe from any and all bad things in the galaxy.

It kind of reminds me from something 15 years ago, give or take. I was spending the weekend at the cabin up north, and my younger brother showed up the following morning. I heard the car door slam shut, so I opened the cabin door and yelled “About time you show up you.. OH MY GOD, aren’t you the most adorable little thing?!” as a golden retriever puppy (Koko) waddled up to me.

[Skitch]

Speaking of which, we don't really understand where maz kanata got his saber do we?

MYSTERY BOX

[Dead & Messed Up]

MYSTERY BOX

At this point, I'm glad they never explained it, the explanation would've been just as dry toast as all the exposition in this movie.

[Skitch]

At this point, I'm glad they never explained it, the explanation would've been just as dry toast as all the exposition in this movie.

I agree, it didn't need an explanation. That being said, I care more about that back story than who's Rey's parents are.

[megladon8]

Is it true there is absolutely zero explanation as to how the Emperor is back?

[Gizmo]

Is it true there is absolutely zero explanation as to how the Emperor is back?

He is one with the dark side, and the dark side is with him

[Dead & Messed Up]

Is it true there is absolutely zero explanation as to how the Emperor is back?

That is true. I think you're supposed to sort out on your own that there's some sort of cloning backup plan in case he died, there are holistic clues to that effect. But still. (long sigh)

[Irish]

Speaking of which, we don't really understand where maz kanata got his saber do we?

My pet theory is Maz had a box of lightsabers in the basement, and sold them to passing rubes. "That? Oh, yeah. That's totally Skywalker's lightsaber."

Like how you might see Sam Houston's "real, genuine, authentic pistol" hanging over the bar at a honky-tonk in Texas, or somebody claiming their uncle has Robert E. Lee's West Point cadet saber mounted over their fireplace.

Maz let Rey have one because she felt sorry for this down and out rando orphan.

[Ivan Drago]

That is true. I think you're supposed to sort out on your own that there's some sort of cloning backup plan in case he died, there are holistic clues to that effect. But still. (long sigh)

I could have sworn it was explained in a moment of rushed exposition in the beginning; Charlie from Lost posed it as 'Sith magic'. Meanwhile Rey conveniently had the power to use the Force to heal people. . .I'm still not sure how I feel about that honestly.

Also I'm.....mixed on this. The beats of the plot move so fast that it's impossible to feel the emotional weight of what's going on, and a trend in most Disney films (one that lowers its stakes) makes its presence here in the second half. But a lot of the new characters are interesting (Keri Russell's, especially), the score and action sequences are tremendous and this is arguably Abrams' best-looking film in terms of cinematography and visual effects.

[Dukefrukem]

I could have sworn it was explained in a moment of rushed exposition in the beginning; Charlie from Lost posed it as 'Sith magic'. Meanwhile Rey conveniently had the power to use the Force to heal people. . .I'm still not sure how I feel about that honestly.

He did. I mentioned it in my review. He called it "Dark Science... secrets only the Sith know"

[transmogrifier]

I have decided, rather than catching this during my two weeks in NZ, I'm going to concentrate on (a) getting this goddamn grading done FFS and (b) eating and drinking as much as possible with friends and family. I'll get to it when it turns up in Korea in January.

Just in case you were wondering.

[megladon8]

I still think it would have been best to have Rey end up being the twin sister of Kylo.

They elope and find a small planet in the middle of nowhere, have two children, name them Adam and Eve and call the planet “Earth”.

We are all the product of inbreeding.

Fast forward to 2019. Donald Trump is POTUS, 99% of people get their political opinions from celebrity talk shows, and Disney is gathering resources to build their first off world spice mine. Disney CEO is revealed to be a still living Emperor Palpatine.

STAR WARS

[Ivan Drago]

He did. I mentioned it in my review. He called it "Dark Science... secrets only the Sith know"

I would have liked to have had that inscribed on the Macguffin Blade that C-3PO translated in his final act after his memory was wiped---oh wait this is a Disney film emotional weight can't exist unless it's Marvel nvm.

Also did the Knights of Ren do anything of note after their introduction? I'm drawing a blank.

[Dukefrukem]

Also did the Knights of Ren do anything of note after their introduction? I'm drawing a blank.

They were in that flashback that one time in Force Awakens.

[Skitch]

I remember chatting with one of my irl friends who hates Last Jedi with a passion that will burn forever (to the point he says it worse that the prequels), and one of his points was "where the hell were the knights of ren?" , to which I responded, "What? Who?"

And that was one of his major points of why TLJ was one of the worst films ever made.

He said they were "set up in Force Awakens as a major threat." I didnt even know what he was talking about and I own star wars encyclopedias and dozens of books and shit

[Peng]

Taken with a grain of salt maybe, but...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMVaNLKXYAAUgl9?format=jpg&name=medium

[Dead & Messed Up]

Ehh.

I can buy that Abrams didn't care for The Last Jedi, and I can also buy compromises along the way, but I find it hard to believe that his immediate and resultant choice was, "I know exactly how to right this ship, I'll write a story based around an obscure relic known only to fans of Clone Wars and plot out a story with George Lucas, you know, the guy I didn't have to answer to for The Force Awakens and who actively criticized my movie for being derivative. The guy whose big idea for a sequel trilogy was 'even more midi-chlorians.'"

Reads a lot more like a burnt fanboy redditor who grew up during the prequel era and loves that universe and George as a result and has a chip on their shoulder.

I think it's much more likely that this movie is basically the skeleton of what JJ wanted to do, but he had neither the time he needed (due to the abbreviated post-Trevorrow timeline) nor a collaborator with good story sense (Terrio is a step down from Kasdan), and so this became yet another modern movie where the creative development is stifled by the release date, and where, as a result, important story issues are "fixed" (re: band-aided over) with post-production reshoots.

[Dukefrukem]

It also doesn't make sense that Iger was the one who didn't like the Last Jedi? So they decided to give Johnson his own trilogy (BEFORE the film even released btw so they can't lean on BO performance even)?

This reeks of some dude on the internet thinking he knows more than he does.

[Skitch]

Agree with both of you. I hate stories like this...I know the Hollywood machine is oft illogical, but that write up is far too illogical.

[Mal]

https://youtu.be/5pAsss_nTlk

It’s here.

[Dukefrukem]

Can't wait! Watching now.

[Mal]

Come for the Star Wars, stay for the Marriage Story review!

[Dukefrukem]

OMG I forgot about that magic coin that Keri Russell gives Poe. LOL

[Dukefrukem]

OMG I forgot about that magic coin that Keri Russell gives Poe. LOL

LOL and all the Sith Star Destroyers couldn't leave the Sith planet because of gravity or some shit. And they need to destroy that beacon thing. But yet all the other ships came to the planet and left with no problem.

[Skitch]

No thank you.

[Idioteque Stalker]

This sucked. I didn’t like Last Jedi but I would watch that five times in order to not watch this again.

[Ezee E]

This was pretty bad, but what do you expect when a trilogy has no cohesion in the first place? This is a combination of JJ, Rian, and the producers for never being aligned in having a true story in the first place.

It's a waste of potential. Rey, Kylo Ren, Poe, and Finn were all interesting characters and well acted. Heck, I was pretty interested in what Zorii Bliss and Maz Kanata brought to the table too, but wasted potential.

This movie feels like I had it summarized to me by an eight year old, especially the first act. There's so many random things introduced, quick solutions, nowhere plot twists, that I just started laughing at it all. It finally starts to come together a little when it settles into a good conflict between Rey, Kylo Ren, and Emperor Palpatine. Ultimately, I walked out with a big sigh.

Other random quips:
-Liked the little alien with Zorii Bliss. Effectively funny the entire time.
-Snoke/Palpatine and the random planet is another example of why this whole trilogy is pretty bad. Snoke should've really just been the reincarnated Palpatine, or absorbed energy, something...
-The random solutions are just so bad. "I AM THE SPY!" "I can just feel it!" Lando's random insertion. An army of star destroyers that can't leave the surface and got manned out of nowhere...
-What was that other desert planet all about anyway?
-So is the First Order/Empire gone, all gone?
-Pretty sure Finn's entire motive was to get some ass, will likely settle for Rose.
-Why was Lando so creepy? Multiple weird comments about saying something to Leia, and then going to find out the heritage of Endor girl.
-EWOKS!

[Ezee E]

****
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi

*** 1/2
Rogue One

***
Force Awakens

** 1/2
Last Jedi
Solo
Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith

* 1/2
Rise of Skywalker

*
Attack of the Clones

[Dukefrukem]

-The random solutions are just so bad. "I AM THE SPY!" "I can just feel it!" Lando's random insertion. An army of star destroyers that can't leave the surface and got manned out of nowhere...


I love how he said it like he has been listening to the Resistance's conversations the entire time.

[transmogrifier]

1. Empire - 90
2. New Hope - 84
3. Return - 83

4. Solo - 58
5. Rogue One - 56
6. Force Awakens - 55

7. Last Jedi - 45
8. Phantom - 44
9. Revenge - 41

10. Attack - 13

It's not a good sign that the rather generic Solo is the fourth best movie in the franchise. Both Last Jedi and Force Awakens went down after second viewings, and I don't feel as if Force Awakens even really deserves to be considered "OK" anymore. On the plus side, Rise of Skywalker doesn't have to do much to be better than most other entries.

[Ezee E]

I love how he said it like he has been listening to the Resistance's conversations the entire time.

May as well have been on Game Night: Star Wars Edition.

[Skitch]

10. Attack - 13

As I said before, I don't care if you give nine of them 1/100...just so long as AoTC gets less points lol.

[Ezee E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ME5jhsgmB4

Tempted to say this scene in Attack of the Clones has more tension, better sound effects, and action than any space scene in RoS.

[Skitch]

Tempted to say this scene in Attack of the Clones has more tension, better sound effects, and action than any space scene in RoS.
You may be right, I haven't seen RoS yet. AotC isn't without a decent scene or idea here or there.

I just think it is the clear and obvious least of all of them.

[Ezee E]

Was thinking about how in Empire Strikes Back, and Han Solo is frozen in carbonite, and doesn't return.

If it were today, there'd have been some defrost button that conveniently gets shot or hit as he's being wheeled into the Slave One, and he escapes just before it takes off to Tatooine, unbeknownst to Boba Fett.

[Ezee E]

You may be right, I haven't seen RoS yet. AotC isn't without a decent scene or idea here or there.

I just think it is the clear and obvious least of all of them.

As you see from my ratings, I still agree. :)

[Skitch]

Also these guys did it better (skip to 9:30 and crank dat bassssss)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI8aSJBC9u0

[Skitch]

As you see from my ratings, I still agree. :)

Then we alllll good lol :p

[Dukefrukem]

I watched Revenge of the Sith today. It's not good.

[megladon8]

No, it is not.

[Scar]

Also these guys did it better (skip to 9:30 and crank dat bassssss)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI8aSJBC9u0

I had to pause it to catch my breath. I’m in hysterics over the ‘bass battle’ :lol:

[Ezee E]

There IS this scene though:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B_w2s0GOMU

[Skitch]

I had to pause it to catch my breath. I’m in hysterics over the ‘bass battle’ :lol:

They did every movie, starting with ep1. Each one better than the last.

[Dead & Messed Up]

"Creepio" in those Auralnauts videos is one of the all-time great internet goofs.

"...well it's the funniest thing they're all dead!"

[Scar]

They did every movie, starting with ep1. Each one better than the last.

I watched episodes one thru six last night.

[Dukefrukem]

There IS this scene though:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B_w2s0GOMU

Really hard to screw up a scene with no dialog (unless that was your point).

[Skitch]

I watched episodes one thru six last night.

My favorite stuff is how the flip everything to make Jedi the drug addled party bro asshole villains. That shit just kills me. And the poor, poor Sith. Just trying to run a nice company. :D

[TGM]

I watched Revenge of the Sith today. It's not good.

You’re right. It’s great. ;)

[Dukefrukem]

You’re right. It’s great. ;)

Don't you feel like there's just too much stuff in it? First, they introduce another villain in the third movie (which why couldn't Rise of Skywalker do this btw?) and like 37 hundred other new vehicles, ships, aliens, at one point Obi-Wan rides a half-horse half dragon thing... The lighting and colors make it stand out from the rest of the 8 films, it feels like it belongs in a cartoon or an episode of Rick and Morty. Then to top it off, that ending saber battle is just over complicated, looney toony and poorly executed.... It's like I want to ask Lucas, "that's how Obi-wan defeats Anakin? By proclaiming he has the high ground... "don't try it"... and then chopping his legs off? That's how you disfigure him?" That's the BEST you could come up with??

[TGM]

I recently rewatched the prequels just about a year or so ago, and they held up tremendously well for me, IMO at least, and I never got the feeling that it was trying to do too much or anything like that. Wrote a blog detailing my thoughts at the time, which will just be easier for me to share than trying to type everything down on my phone during my lunch break. :p https://cwiddop.blogspot.com/2018/03/star-wars-prequel-trilogy.html

[Ezee E]

Really hard to screw up a scene with no dialog (unless that was your point).

Sort of my point. More emotion is portrayed in this dialog-scene then probably anything else in the prequel trilogy. It's also really well done and rare to see in any Disney-ish movie.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Sort of my point. More emotion is portrayed in this dialog-scene then probably anything else in the prequel trilogy. It's also really well done and rare to see in any Disney-ish movie.

I maintain that while the Prequels are Actually Bad, there's a lot of cool aesthetic stuff happening in them, and some great examples of Young George Lucas playing with filmcraft. Attack of the Clones is my least favorite of the saga, miscalculated and wooden, but I love how the Coruscant chase zips you through all of the city, orienting you to different districts through shifts in architecture and color.

There's also this super-clever bit in Clones:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYw5KWTe15I

where Anakin and Dooku fight, and Lucas says fuck the choreography, I'm going to express this with color and shadow and then flip the 180 line so Anakin and Dooku occupy the same side of the frame, which draws a visual equivalence between two characters who are servants of the same master.

[Ezee E]

I maintain that while the Prequels are Actually Bad, there's a lot of cool aesthetic stuff happening in them, and some great examples of Young George Lucas playing with filmcraft. Attack of the Clones is my least favorite of the saga, miscalculated and wooden, but I love how the Coruscant chase zips you through all of the city, orienting you to different districts through shifts in architecture and color.

There's also this super-clever bit in Clones:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYw5KWTe15I

where Anakin and Dooku fight, and Lucas says fuck the choreography, I'm going to express this with color and shadow and then flip the 180 line so Anakin and Dooku occupy the same side of the frame, which draws a visual equivalence between two characters who are servants of the same master.

Too bad about that random Leia scene and Hayden's terrible acting there.

Oof... that performance from Hayden.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Too bad about that random Leia scene and Hayden's terrible acting there.

Oof... that performance from Hayden.

Too bad indeed.

[Dukefrukem]

Oof... that performance from Hayden.

Worst casting ever?

[Dukefrukem]

I re-watched the Force Awakens after seeing Rise of Skywalker; Not that we need questions answered like so many people do. I just accept them because Star Wars. I dont need to know what Finn was going o tell Rey when he was sinking into the sand. I don't need to know when Palpatine fathered a son. I dont need to know where Maz found Luke's Cloud City light saber... BUT, it's interesting playing the movies back how many things actually link to the decisions in Rise of Skywalker (which I hate btw).

For example, when Rey touches Luke's saber in Force Awakens- she is given a vision of the hallway between the first Vadar and Luke saber battle in the Empire Strikes Back. At the time we asked Why? Is she related to Luke? Is she related to Vadar? Why that hallway? This was the first time a force sensitive Rey was able to channel the force and because of her Palpatine blood, this was a disturbance in the force for her. It makes sense she would see that vision after touching Luke's saber.

We also see Rey use several force abilities with no training. She is able to fight off a trained Kylo Ren all three times in the trilogy (four if you include that dumb Tie Fighter scene). It's never in doubt that she won't win those battles. Why? Palpatine blood. Even when Kylo runs to Snoke to tell him about her, Snoke appears shocked that Kylo was defeated... but then tells him to bring her to him. Snoke/Palpatine secretly know who she is and Palpatine explains why he does this in Rise of Skywalker.

In the Last Jedi, when Luke is training Rey, Rey gravitates to the dark side. We are shown that deep dark hole- "You went straight to the dark"... Well duh... Palpatine is my grandfather Luke.

I hate almost every decision in this new trilogy- but if this is what we are given, I do like that theory that 'Lightning Planet' Palpatine is the culmination of every dark lord sith that has perished. 'Lightning Planet' Palpatine has created several clones that have acted in place of others- Snoke was one of those clones. The Emperor that was thrown down the death star was one of those clones. Senator Palpatine (Sidious) in the senate, could have fathered a son, long before he practiced the dark arts. Long before he became Palpatine the Senator. Long before the Phantom Menace... Palpatine was just a regular dude, seduced by the Darth Plagueis ( which was secretly a clone of 'Lightning Planet' Palpatine. Who knows maybe Plagueis looked like Snoke?) who was crafting this plan the entire time.

So in short, Plagueis is Sidious, is the Emperor, is Palpatine in different forms. It also allows for any version of Palpatine to accept death. "I am defenseless... take your weapon... Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete". He wants Luke to kill the Emperor because 'Lightning Planet' Palpatine will absorb that power. Then eventually when Luke dies, he'll absorb that power. Until he's powerful enough to conjure Death Star ships out of thin air...

[Idioteque Stalker]

Duke, that is the most convincing defense I’ve read of Palpatine’s arc. Despite your valiant attempt, however, I will continue to refer to it as ridiculous and stupid.

[Dukefrukem]

Duke, that is the most convincing defense I’ve read of Palpatine’s arc. Despite your valiant attempt, however, I will continue to refer to it as ridiculous and stupid.

The only thing it's not dumber than is the Emperor surviving that fall, and subsequent obliteration of the Death Star. If J.J. comes out later and says the Emperor that was defeated in Return of the Jedi is the same Emperor on the Lightning Planet... then fuck everything.

My theory also make sense why those Sith beacons exist and why one was on the Death Star. What purpose could those Sith beacons be used for other than for those clones to find their way back to Lightning Planet Palpatine (for whatever reason... to recharge? for new orders?). You wouldn't just create those Sith beacons so say, a Jedi could find there way to the planet.

What DOESNT make sense is why you would put the location of the Sith Beacons on a dagger... which would then be used to look directly at the death star wreckage to find the second beacon. That means that dagger was made AFTER Return of the Jedi. For what purpose? No purpose. Everyone who would need access to that Sith Planet is dead, except for Snoke who doesn't make an appearance until 30 years later.

[Morris Schæffer]

How was Finn able to see Rey after she defeated Palps even though he was nowhere near here?

[Grouchy]

So Star Wars is on the level of its bad fan fiction now. This movie tried to cover up its frankly bad writing with frantic pacing and a lot of jokes (C-3PO had never been so obviously comic relief) but there's no chance a story so poorly constructed will fly with Star Wars fans. The spy subplot, wasted characters (Rose was given literally nothing to do despite her prominent role in the previous film) and generic climax, plus how the fuck is Palpatine alive? Shouldn't there be at least a reason? I like that it retroactively explains why Rey was so good with the Force, but the last trilogy as a whole was at the very least a waste of its cast. There are a lot of moments in Rise of Skywalker that should be epic and moving and instead just sit there, inert on the screen until the next story beat. Say what you will about the prequels, when Anakin put on the Darth Vader mask and shouted "NOOOOO!" to the cruel fates I felt something relevant was happening. This movie couldn't even squeeze that kind of genuine feeling out of the death scene of one of the most beloved characters in all fiction.

[Dukefrukem]

How was Finn able to see Rey after she defeated Palps even though he was nowhere near here?

Finn is force sensitive.

[Morris Schæffer]

Finn is force sensitive.

This was hinted at in previous installments or merely thrown in there just becuz?

[[ETM]]

No real hints. They just threw it in there as the reason why some troopers defied brainwashing and indoctrination. I thought it was horse crap, because, like midichloreans, it takes away agency from Finn and the others.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

[Dead & Messed Up]

;613272']No real hints. They just threw it in there as the reason why some troopers defied brainwashing and indoctrination. I thought it was horse crap, because, like midichloreans, it takes away agency from Finn and the others.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

Marc Bernadin rightly pointed out that when Finn asked Jannah why they defected, she should have simply said, "We heard about you."

[Grouchy]

Marc Bernadin rightly pointed out that when Finn asked Jannah why they defected, she should have simply said, "We heard about you."
Oooooh that would have been so much better.

[Skitch]

Marc has the most annoying talent of ruining things by making them obviously better.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Oooooh that would have been so much better.

Painful how much that should've been the motivation.

[Morris Schæffer]

Painful how much that should've been the motivation.

What does Jannah reply instead? Sorry ive forgotten.

[Dead & Messed Up]

What does Jannah reply instead? Sorry ive forgotten.

They felt the Force.

[Pop Trash]

I guess I'll play ...

1. Return of the Jedi
2. A New Hope
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Last Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
6. The Rise of Skywalker
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Rogue One
9. Phantom Menace
10. Attack of the Clones
11. Solo

Yes ... I really don't like Solo at all. My memory of the prequels are a bit foggy. Phantom Menace might be better than people give it credit for simply because people are hung up on how bad Jar Jar is and some of the supposed "racist" characters or whatever (which seemed overblown to me). I guess if an alien has a big schnoz and is money grubbing he's a Jew?

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh Wow. Attack of the Clones over Solo is kinda shocking. I guess the Maul scene is equal in terrible to I hate sand.

[Pop Trash]

Yeh Wow. Attack of the Clones over Solo is kinda shocking. I guess the Maul scene is equal in terrible to I hate sand.

It might be worse ... but Solo actively pissed me off more recently for a variety of reasons. The cinematography looks like shit, and that's one thing both the OT and the Abrams-Johnson trio have going for it is that they all look really great to me. The Rise of Skywalker in particular looks awesome at points, despite the script seemingly put through a paper shredder and then taped back together. What's weird is that the cinematographer on Solo has done great things in the past. Also whatshisname as Han Solo is garbage ... but he's great in Hail Caesar! so I think both of them got fucked over by the Disney conveyor belt product line. At least the prequels don't fuck over existing characters that I like the way Solo does. I never had an opinion on Anakin Skywalker one way or the other. But I take fuckin' over HAN SOLO personally!!

[Dukefrukem]

The cinematography looks like shit,

This I totally agree with. It looks like it was shot behind a screen door. Everything is so foggy at times. Such an odd choice.

It's by far the worst looking tent-pole movie since Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

[Irish]

1212114989739315208

Hmmmmmmmmm ... Dunno if I wholly agree. Maybe only in theory, because we're talking about "Star Wars" and JJ Abrams here. The existence of movies like "Bright" and half of Netflix's originals catalogue contradicts the notion, too.

Also, there's a reply by a guy calling himself MovieFreak and he looks suspicious. Probably a bad sort, that one.

[Grouchy]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Last Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Rogue One
7. The Force Awakens
8. Attack of the Clones
9. The Phantom Menace
10. The Rise of Skywalker
11. Solo

[Ezee E]

It's a trilogy, not an anthology. I can't think of any other trilogy where at least the general idea wasn't figured out ahead of time from whoever was in charge.

[Skitch]

1212114989739315208

Hmmmmmmmmm ... Dunno if I wholly agree. Maybe only in theory, because we're talking about "Star Wars" and JJ Abrams here. The existence of movies like "Bright" and half of Netflix's originals catalogue contradicts the notion, too.

Also, there's a reply by a guy calling himself MovieFreak and he looks suspicious. Probably a bad sort, that one.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll take a movie that swings and falls short over a processed, by committee, distilled for the masses, homogenized, SAFE, mediocre film any day.

Edit: I also believe there should've been at least some sort of basic outline for the trilogy. The two ideas do not negate each other.

[Irish]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll take a movie that swings and falls short over a processed, by committee, distilled for the masses, homogenized, SAFE, mediocre film any day.

Sure, absolutely. But can we really say this stuff takes a meaningful swing?

"Safety first" filmmaking was George's whole schtick (just glance at "Return of the Jedi") and it's a foundational idea for Disney.

[Skitch]

Sure, absolutely. But can we really say this stuff takes a meaningful swing?

I was separating the two ideas. I was not labeling anything Star Wars as "taking a swing". :)

Edit: to be honest, because of the stupid way that twitter is, I saw the 2nd tweet first, and didn't even realize it was attached to a Star Wars tweet.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's a trilogy, not an anthology. I can't think of any other trilogy where at least the general idea wasn't figured out ahead of time from whoever was in charge.

The OT is one. It had an overarching authorial voice in Lucas, but they didn't even know they were making a trilogy until they wanted to wrap things up after Empire. Sure, Lucas has claimed there was always a long-term plan, but he's offered plenty of self-contradictory claims about that over the years, to the point that I basically don't believe a lick of it. (I'm sure he had ideas and concepts but only for further stories, not for a planned-out trilogy. "Lava planet?" he says to himself in 1983, "Could that be a thing?")

I agree some sort of outline would've been a good idea, of course, but I also think a set of good creatives could've absolutely yes-and'd their way to a good story.

Honestly, I think it's a lot simpler; I don't think JJ Abrams is a good storyteller. He mistakes citation for meaning and energy for engagement, which makes him uniquely unqualified for a trilogy of stories that needs meaning, setup/payoff, meat and potatoes development. But because he's good enough at plowing through his films with a baseline level of competence, showmanship, and charismatic casting, it's easy to mistake his films for good stories. Basically, he makes cakes composed entirely of frosting, and by the time you realize there's no actual cake, he's onto the next thing, and why are you complaining, don't you like frosting?

[Problem is Abrams' movies make reliable bank, and he's a protege of Spielberg, which means Kennedy basically has to trust him (and, hell, probably does). All indicators point to him being a good storyteller, except for the underlying problem: he's not.]

[Dukefrukem]

1212114989739315208

Hmmmmmmmmm ... Dunno if I wholly agree. Maybe only in theory, because we're talking about "Star Wars" and JJ Abrams here. The existence of movies like "Bright" and half of Netflix's originals catalogue contradicts the notion, too.

Also, there's a reply by a guy calling himself MovieFreak and he looks suspicious. Probably a bad sort, that one.

This would be a great discussion if he posted here.

[Yxklyx]

This movie did not live and breathe.

[Grouchy]

Honestly, I think it's a lot simpler; I don't think JJ Abrams is a good storyteller. He mistakes citation for meaning and energy for engagement, which makes him uniquely unqualified for a trilogy of stories that needs meaning, setup/payoff, meat and potatoes development. But because he's good enough at plowing through his films with a baseline level of competence, showmanship, and charismatic casting, it's easy to mistake his films for good stories. Basically, he makes cakes composed entirely of frosting, and by the time you realize there's no actual cake, he's onto the next thing, and why are you complaining, don't you like frosting?

[Problem is Abrams' movies make reliable bank, and he's a protege of Spielberg, which means Kennedy basically has to trust him (and, hell, probably does). All indicators point to him being a good storyteller, except for the underlying problem: he's not.]
I whole-heartedly agree with this.

[Ezee E]

The OT is one. It had an overarching authorial voice in Lucas, but they didn't even know they were making a trilogy until they wanted to wrap things up after Empire. Sure, Lucas has claimed there was always a long-term plan, but he's offered plenty of self-contradictory claims about that over the years, to the point that I basically don't believe a lick of it. (I'm sure he had ideas and concepts but only for further stories, not for a planned-out trilogy. "Lava planet?" he says to himself in 1983, "Could that be a thing?")

I guess it wasn't a planned trilogy all thing said still, basically just sequels.

Agreed on JJ not being the best of storytellers either.

[Dukefrukem]

Neither was Back to the Future or Matrix trilogies.

But when you have flags planted every 2 years for for your "episodes VII, VIII and IX"... you probably should have some kind of rough outline.

[Ezee E]

Neither was Back to the Future or Matrix trilogies.

But when you have flags planted every 2 years for for your "episodes VII, VIII and IX"... you probably should have some kind of rough outline.

Exactly. And for both of those trilogies, I believe 2 and 3 were planned accordingly.

[Skitch]

Exactly. And for both of those trilogies, I believe 2 and 3 were planned accordingly.

And shot back to back, oddly enough.

[Morris Schæffer]

1. The Empire Strikes Back (same)
2. Star Wars (same)
3. Return of the Jedi (same)
4. The Last Jedi (5)
5. Revenge of the Sith (4)
6. Rogue One (7)
7. The Force Awakens (6)
8. Attack of the Clones (10)
9. The Phantom Menace (8)
10. The Rise of Skywalker (9)
11. Solo (11)

mine (in red).

[Skitch]

I have finally seen this movie.

The last time I watched a movie that felt as "studio meddled edited" as this movie it was called Justice League.

[Gizmo]

She hits the nail on the head with a lot of my thoughts, and since I'm not articulate enough to type them out, here you go:

https://youtu.be/GErIPKjwuDg

[Dukefrukem]

I liked her video.

Number 7 is hilarous and I wrote the same thing in the Mandalorian thread. Boy does Lucasfilm love to jackoff to spaceships landing and taking off.

[Dukefrukem]

Number 9 makes so much sense too. The Kerri Russel planet should have been completely cut out of the movie. The only reason that whole planet sequence was in the movie to begin with is so J.J. can give acting roles to his friends.

Ugh. So infuriating.

[Dukefrukem]

OMG that would have been an excellent plot point. At 49:30- what if Rey, when reaching out to teh ship taking off and her parents leaving when she was a kid... what if she destroyed the ship and killed her own parents? That would be more doubt about her dark/light conflict.

[Morris Schæffer]

Number 9 makes so much sense too. The Kerri Russel planet should have been completely cut out of the movie. The only reason that whole planet sequence was in the movie to begin with is so J.J. can give acting roles to his friends.

Ugh. So infuriating.

Could it also be that the Disney mind is such that they're already looking ahead for opportunities? For expanding the universe I mean? Now they've got a chance to do a Poe/Keri movie. I'm probably reaching.

Whatever, fuck this movie. :)

[TGM]

Oscar Isaac has pretty much already said he's done, so I wouldn't hold my breath on a Poe spin-off anytime soon. :p

[Dukefrukem]

Could it also be that the Disney mind is such that they're already looking ahead for opportunities? For expanding the universe I mean? Now they've got a chance to do a Poe/Keri movie. I'm probably reaching.

Whatever, fuck this movie. :)

I'm harnessing my inner trans here when I say this directed towards the creative team... Focus on the movie in front of you.. not the NEXT movie.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, from what Isaac and Boyega have said in interviews, it would surprise me if Disney invited them back to anything Star Wars.

[Pop Trash]

I don't even like this movie much, but I feel weird that I don't hate it? I mean, yeah sure, it falls apart if you think about it for more than five seconds, and it recons most of The Last Jedi and (even worse) the end of Return of the Jedi in irritating ways, buuut it still looks good and is entertaining on a scene-to-scene basis. There's some moments that work on a pure visceral "wow that was cool" dopamine hitting level like Emperor getting melted Nazis in Raiders of the Lost Ark style and the dope as hell looking lightsaber duel on a ship in the rain with waves crashing all over.

[Skitch]

I don't think this movie retcons Last Jedi at all. I felt it doubled down on the importance of everything that happened in TLJ.

[Pop Trash]

I don't think this movie retcons Last Jedi at all. I felt it doubled down on the importance of everything that happened in TLJ.

One of the first shots of Rey is her reading the ancient Jedi texts that were supposedly burnt up last episode by Ghost Yoda and Luke because "page turners they were not." Plus Ghost Luke being all "that was old me, this is new me!" Even things that aren't literally retcon'd feel like figurative retcons by JJ. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" becomes "hey remember that dude that everyone thought was killed at the end of ROTJ ... well haha just kidding he's still alive somehow." JJ fills the mystery boxes he began in TFA that Rian Johnson basically said "yo ... that shit doesn't matter" and JJ goes "hey piss off Rian, REY IS IN THE PALPATINE BLOODLINE BITCH!"

[Skitch]

One of the first shots of Rey is her reading the ancient Jedi texts that were supposedly burnt up last episode by Ghost Yoda and Luke because "page turners they were not." Plus Ghost Luke being all "that was old me, this is new me!" Even things that aren't literally retcon'd feel like figurative retcons by JJ. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" becomes "hey remember that dude that everyone thought was killed at the end of ROTJ ... well haha just kidding he's still alive somehow." JJ fills the mystery boxes he began in TFA that Rian Johnson basically said "yo ... that shit doesn't matter" and JJ goes "hey piss off Rian, REY IS IN THE PALPATINE BLOODLINE BITCH!"

I believe that was Luke's journal, not the Jedi texts. I could be wrong.

Oh it totally retcons Return of the Jedi. And I was geared up to be pissy about TLJ because I love that film...I didn't feel like it attacked it at all.

Also, I'm not defending RoS. I have many questions. MANY. But I truly feel/felt like there was studio interference in the edit. Especially the first half.

Hell, for a film that is supposed to wrap up three trilogies, it sure brings up a lot of questions it doesn't answer.

1. how why was palpatine making snokes
2. how did palpatine die and come back
3. who were all the robed people on planet lightning
4. where did all the Empire people come from to man the star destroyers (literally thousands of people)
5. what did finn want to say to rey
6. the awkward as fuck interaction between lando and (maybe) daughter?
7. with all the ways for leia to go, the best...PEAK...idea you go for is straining herself for a mild distraction that kills her son but doesnt?
8. no commitment from rey to either of her triangle love interests. fine. just weird.

[Dead & Messed Up]

One of the first shots of Rey is her reading the ancient Jedi texts that were supposedly burnt up last episode by Ghost Yoda and Luke because "page turners they were not." Plus Ghost Luke being all "that was old me, this is new me!" Even things that aren't literally retcon'd feel like figurative retcons by JJ. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" becomes "hey remember that dude that everyone thought was killed at the end of ROTJ ... well haha just kidding he's still alive somehow." JJ fills the mystery boxes he began in TFA that Rian Johnson basically said "yo ... that shit doesn't matter" and JJ goes "hey piss off Rian, REY IS IN THE PALPATINE BLOODLINE BITCH!"

Rey saved the books at the end of The Last Jedi. You see Finn open a cupboard with them in it as he searches for a blanket for Rose in the final sequence. That's why Yoda very carefully says, "That tree contains nothing which the girl Rey does not already possess." (My read is that Yoda burns down the tree because Luke is in so much grief for his mistakes that he's accidentally fetishized the past in the process. The tree and the books are like a grave for his former hopes and ambitions. Yoda burning the tree gives him a kick in the ass without actually destroying history; the lightning strike destroys orthodoxy and stagnation, not knowledge.)

I take the theme from The Last Jedi as a very Lion King "learn from the past." Kylo Ren advocates for destroying the past, but doing so doesn't bring him peace. Meanwhile, it's Luke who owns up to his past mistakes and Rey who owns up to her own past (her parents) who are freed in the process. "Let the past die" is a great trailer line and a good villain line, but I don't think it's intended to be the theme.

Definitely agreed with you that Palpatine is a weird-ass retcon that doesn't fall in line with the storytelling in Return of the Jedi and The Last Jedi. It's very lazy.

[Dead & Messed Up]

IIRC, in TROS, Rey's using the texts, not a journal (or that the journal was one of the texts). I think one of the telling differences between Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams is that, for Johnson, the books have symbolic ambition, while, for Abrams, they're a device that tells you where plot doodads are.

[Skitch]

Well JJ is perfect to direct the next Indy film. Find the thing that leads to the exposition that leads to the trinket that will exposition explain exposition explain lead to the thing of wonder.

[Ezee E]

Please don't tell me that Harrison is going to do Indiana again.

[DavidSeven]

Shrug.

I liked it well enough. Not as relevatory from a cinematic aspect as The Force Awakens but certainly watchable and a competent closure of storylines. Maybe I’m grading on a curve, because I couldn’t stand The Last Jedi, but I thought this mostly worked and avoided getting too hokey or overlong in its wrap up. I’m not invested at all in the mythology, so maybe that helps as well. Rey and Kylo are the only compelling characters in this latest run of movies, so I was glad the stuff with ancillary characters was less of a focus. Not enough Rose? Who cares? That Keri Russell bot was way cooler.

[Grouchy]

relevatory from a cinematic aspect as The Force Awakens
...


a competent closure of storylines
Seriously? Pulling Palpatine out of a hat?


Not enough Rose? Who cares? That Keri Russell bot was way cooler.
Ugh, no. Abrams shelved an interesting, cool character and replaced it with a generic, boring love interest.

[Ezee E]

I can't really understand the love for the Rose character.

[Grouchy]

I can't really understand the love for the Rose character.
Well, she's something never before seen in the Star Wars universe - a low-level engineer who has a personal commitment to the Resistance and is caught up in this war which is so much bigger than her. A classic hero trope while also bringing in a breath of fresh air to the franchise. Finn is also a good character. Part of the reason this movie is so bad is what a waste of a great cast of characters it is, all played by competent actors.

I played D&D yesterday with my nerd friends and we all started chuckling at how this movie deals with Palpatine's resurrection IN THE OPENING SCROLL. It's like "The dead speak! Palpatine is back from the grave!" or some schlock like that. It's so lame it wants you to accept a huge plot twist with letters on the screen.

[Ezee E]

I played D&D yesterday with my nerd friends and we all started chuckling at how this movie deals with Palpatine's resurrection IN THE OPENING SCROLL. It's like "The dead speak! Palpatine is back from the grave!" or some schlock like that. It's so lame it wants you to accept a huge plot twist with letters on the screen.

Certainly agree with that. I mean, it would've been quite the twist if both the First Order and the Resistance were following these artifacts that led them to Duke's idea of Emperor Palpatine, who has been living on this Lightning Planet the entire time, without any knowledge that he was still living, but........

[Morris Schæffer]

It's like "The dead speak! Palpatine is back from the grave!" or some schlock like that. It's so lame it wants you to accept a huge plot twist with letters on the screen.

Haha, reading it the way you're phrasing it makes it sound even worse. :D

[megladon8]

Apparently they filmed a full explanation for Palpatine’s survival / resurrection, but it was cut.

[Dukefrukem]

Apparently they filmed a full explanation for Palpatine’s survival / resurrection, but it was cut.

That's a weird move considering the last Jedi was 20 minutes longer and had 37 scenes that could have been cut from it.

[Wryan]

Even though the awful first and second acts were so incredibly rushed, I actually kind of surprised myself with how much I enjoyed the third act, which actually allowed the characters to breathe (weirdly enough, for a climax). I can't say the movie had too many surprises, with everything being so telegraphed or obvious. The movie goes apoplectic trying to shove nostalgia and all the "Remember this!? Remember this, you piece of shit!?" down your throat. Last Jedi was better than this. So was Force Awakens. But again, I can't deny that I felt some joy and chills in the climax. God damnit I don't respect it, but some of it still worked on me.

And there was still time to feature some fucking porgs.

[Wryan]

My fave moment of bullshit in a picture just packed with it was the dagger Death Star skyline lineup. Bitch you'd have to be at the exact right spot for that to work! This isn't Indiana Jones!

[Dukefrukem]

Funny thing I just realized.

These planets all being destroyed at the same time, means the planets are exactly the same distance away from Starkiller Base.

https://i.ibb.co/8sDKZCV/Stark.jpg

[Wryan]

That scene alone is more spectacular and vivid than just about anything in Rise of Skywalker.

Also compare the Yoda/Luke ghost convo in Last Jedi to the Luke/Rey ghost convo in RoS. The former is majestic, lovely, funny and moving, and it's shot gorgeously. The latter doesn't connect in any of those ways.

Driver MVP tho for real.

[Morris Schæffer]

My fave moment of bullshit in a picture just packed with it was the dagger Death Star skyline lineup. Bitch you'd have to be at the exact right spot for that to work! This isn't Indiana Jones!

What was this?

[Wryan]

When Rey discovers the secret entrance by matching up some random shape on the Death Star with the dagger (from a random position on a grassy knoll). It's a howler.

[Dead & Messed Up]

When Rey discovers the secret entrance by matching up some random shape on the Death Star with the dagger (from a random position on a grassy knoll). It's a howler.

Whoever made the knife was incredibly optimistic that the storm-crashed wreckage wouldn't shift out of position. And correct. They were also correct.

[amberlita]

My fave moment of bullshit in a picture just packed with it was the dagger Death Star skyline lineup. Bitch you'd have to be at the exact right spot for that to work! This isn't Indiana Jones!

Nor is it The Goonies! :)

Adam Driver really is a remarkable actor. His character arc was badly written, predictable, and rushed at the end, but I was sold. I can't wait to see more of what he does (I watched The Report about a week after seeing this and he saves that one too given that it's basically just a Wikipedia page set to film).

Love all the four main actors, really. Despite not really liking these movies all that much, I generally come away with positive feelings towards it and I think it's because of their performances. The writers/directors did not always service them well, but I appreciate that they gave everything they had. There basically aren't any scenes where there isn't at least one of them on screen, and it made me want to keep watching no matter how crap the story was.

[[ETM]]

Haha, reading it the way you're phrasing it makes it sound even worse. :DNo, there were even three exclamation points at the end of the sentence! Like this!!!

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

[Morris Schæffer]

;613595']No, there were even three exclamation points at the end of the sentence! Like this!!!

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

I see just one.

[megladon8]

I wish that force sensitive people in the films had been called “Force kin”, so we could at least spend a few hours hearing Hollywood actors say “foreskin” with a straight face.

“Rey. You’re the most sensitive foreskin I’ve ever seen.”

[[ETM]]

I see just one.In the actual movie.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

[Dukefrukem]

Whoever made the knife was incredibly optimistic that the storm-crashed wreckage wouldn't shift out of position. And correct. They were also correct.

That's not even the worst thing about the dagger. Why did someone make this map to Sith Beacon to begin with??? What purpose does that serve???

[Wryan]

It's an important key you can also stab people with. Not that using it would potentially lead to damaging or breaking one of these mega-importante keys or anything...

[Wryan]

Totally agree amber. Much like the last season of GoT, the actors did the absolute most with the least. They deserve props.

[Grouchy]

Second that agreement. Driver's performance alone made his character somewhat compelling despite the bad writing and directing.

[megladon8]

C’mon guys.

Force kin!!

That’s a billion dollar idea!

[Dukefrukem]

You guys believe this Colin Trevorrow script leak? Sounds kinky.

[Ezee E]

You guys believe this Colin Trevorrow script leak? Sounds kinky.

Some of it makes sense. I forget when he was taken out of the job.

[TGM]

Was just wondering recently, seeing how Rian Johnson decided on his film to undo everything that had been set up in the previous film, only to then essentially wrap up the story with part 2 of a planned trilogy and leave the story with virtually nowhere to go to wrap things up proper in part 3, leading to the mess that is the third film by all accounts, how then would Johnson himself have handled the third movie if they decided to give him that job after Trevorrow left? After all, he made this damn mess (he and the studio that inexplicably granted him full creative control), so how would he have tried to scramble together a satisfying trilogy and series conclusion, following everything he did in Episode 8?

[Ezee E]

Was just wondering recently, seeing how Rian Johnson decided on his film to undo everything that had been set up in the previous film, only to then essentially wrap up the story with part 2 of a planned trilogy and leave the story with virtually nowhere to go to wrap things up proper in part 3, leading to the mess that is the third film by all accounts, how then would Johnson himself have handled the third movie if they decided to give him that job after Trevorrow left? After all, he made this damn mess (he and the studio that inexplicably granted him full creative control), so how would he have tried to scramble together a satisfying trilogy and series conclusion, following everything he did in Episode 8?

Great point. Although it was agreed on before Last Jedi was even shooting that Trevorrow was doing IX, right?

[TGM]

Great point. Although it was agreed on before Last Jedi was even shooting that Trevorrow was doing IX, right?

I believe it was, so Johnson went into his film with no expectations to have to be the one who has to try and follow it up. So then, pull the rug on him after the fact, and I’d be curious what we’d wind up with.

[Lazlo]

I don't buy this argument that Johnson left them with nowhere to go. The First Order was still in charge of shit, Kylo Ren was now the Supreme Leader, the heroes were beaten back and needed to regroup and find a way to rally more people to their cause. Lots of stuff is clearly unresolved. Somehow the bad guys have to lose. How's that gonna happen? Figure it out, that's the story.

Trevorrow's draft is supposedly from December 2016, before Carrie Fisher died and a year before TLJ was released. Then another writer was brought on to rewrite that draft and sometime in the summer of 2017 Trevorrow was let go.

I like a lot of things about the story in terms of missions and basic story momentum. Stealing a Star Destroyer to replenish the Resistance's fleet is cool. Covert mission to activate a beacon is cool. Sounds fun for everyone other than Rey and Kylo. They seem much too sidelined into more training and more internal struggles that doesn't feel like it pushes anything forward. Also, Kylo has to be redeemed, he just does. His whole thing is about his struggle against his natural inclination towards the light side. He needs to be the big bad, for sure, but there needs to be something he sets in motion that he regrets and helps the Resistance undo. Carrie Fisher's death made this difficult for sure; their confrontation would have been a major turning point. Maybe it's sacrilege, but they should have re-cast Leia. Bite that bullet and get Cherry Jones on the phone, just for the sake of the story and not being handcuffed to real world events. Kylo killing Rey's parents is probably a bridge too far. Maybe he was there when it happened, but he can't have delivered the blow. Also, the timing is just too off, Kylo isn't that much older than Rey. We're to believe that a 10 year old Kylo killed these people, before he fell from grace at Jedi academy? Please.

I've got more thoughts, and I loved TROS even with all it's faults, but this had some cool first-draft possibilities that could have then been refined. Title's so good, too.

[Grouchy]

Sounds good and like they had an actual movie to make at some point. I also disagree that Johnson left the trilogy with nowhere to go - it's a middle act, it has to leave unsolved problems and enigmas. The real issue, as mentioned before, is that Abrams is an awful writer.

[TGM]

Really, all that was left unresolved was the fact that the group of bad guys still needed to be officially taken out. And, that's about it. Mind you, two movies deep, and we still don't really actually know anything about the First Order or their actual goals or objectives, just that they're bad. So, going into a third movie, that's not exactly the most compelling narrative to keep me wanting to come back.

Compare that to Empire, which left us with Han being captured, Luke learning that Darth Vader is his father, and him failing miserably and learning he's still got a lot of growing left to do if he's going to take on such a powerful force, and yeah, there's a lot to keep us coming back to see how this thing gets resolved.

By the end of Jedi though, Snoke's already been killed, Kylo's the new leader, but just got made to look like a total bitch, so not exactly all that threatening a presence to take Snoke's place, Rey's now suddenly more powerful than ever, and the First Order may still exist, but I've been given no real reason to believe that they're going to be much of a threat to the resistance by this point anyhow. As I watched the trailers for The Rise of Skywalker, I literally found myself asking, what is even the story going into this movie? Just that the First Order still needs to be defeated?

So sure, that much is still yet to be fully resolved, so on a purely technical level, you could say that Johnson left that much open. But he didn't exactly hook up the next director after him with any compelling direction to really take the story, or give anyone any real driving reason to need to see how this ends.

[TGM]

It also doesn't help that he chose to close out his movie with a series closing shot, as opposed to a "part 2 of a trilogy" closing shot. XP

[[ETM]]

Abrams ended turned the ending of the New Thing into the ending of the Old Thing which we already had closure on. Johnson deconstructed (or so he thought) the Old Thing so that by ending the New Thing in Ep. 9 there was an opportunity for doing something fresh to take the franchise into the future. I was fully on board with that.

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

[Dukefrukem]

Trevorrow left Episode IX on September 5, 2017... a year and 3 months before Last Jedi released.

[Grouchy]

Really, all that was left unresolved was the fact that the group of bad guys still needed to be officially taken out. And, that's about it. Mind you, two movies deep, and we still don't really actually know anything about the First Order or their actual goals or objectives, just that they're bad. So, going into a third movie, that's not exactly the most compelling narrative to keep me wanting to come back.

Compare that to Empire, which left us with Han being captured, Luke learning that Darth Vader is his father, and him failing miserably and learning he's still got a lot of growing left to do if he's going to take on such a powerful force, and yeah, there's a lot to keep us coming back to see how this thing gets resolved.

By the end of Jedi though, Snoke's already been killed, Kylo's the new leader, but just got made to look like a total bitch, so not exactly all that threatening a presence to take Snoke's place, Rey's now suddenly more powerful than ever, and the First Order may still exist, but I've been given no real reason to believe that they're going to be much of a threat to the resistance by this point anyhow. As I watched the trailers for The Rise of Skywalker, I literally found myself asking, what is even the story going into this movie? Just that the First Order still needs to be defeated?

So sure, that much is still yet to be fully resolved, so on a purely technical level, you could say that Johnson left that much open. But he didn't exactly hook up the next director after him with any compelling direction to really take the story, or give anyone any real driving reason to need to see how this ends.
You know what? I agree. I still think Jedi is good but it doesn't leave us with a very strong cliffhanger. The whole new trilogy needed another villain besides Kylo.

[Ezee E]

You know what? I agree. I still think Jedi is good but it doesn't leave us with a very strong cliffhanger. The whole new trilogy as a whole needed another villain besides Kylo.

There was Snoke, but...

[Skitch]

I will not get dragged into another Last Jedi argument, I really will not.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brbrdnh74yA&feature=emb_title

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9d1bkRC0Hs&feature=emb_title

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiqElS_RfPw

[Dukefrukem]

Was there some kind of announcement about that recently or something?

[TGM]

Was there some kind of announcement about that recently or something?

It was in the officially released novelization of the movie.

[TGM]

And apparently the novelization also confirms that Rey's father was in fact a failed Palpatine clone. :rolleyes:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rise-skywalker-rey-father-palpatine-clone/?utm_content=buffera898b&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=SR-TW&utm_campaign=SR-TW

[Ezee E]

And apparently the novelization also confirms that Rey's father was in fact a failed Palpatine clone. :rolleyes:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rise-skywalker-rey-father-palpatine-clone/?utm_content=buffera898b&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=SR-TW&utm_campaign=SR-TW

Just goes to show how bad that last movie is.

[Dukefrukem]

That's so fucking stupid.

[Skitch]

I said it before and I'll say it again, theres literally no theory on her lineage I've heard that holds a candle to her just being a nobody.

[transmogrifier]

My feelings about the entire trilogy can be summed up thusly: if you know that you are going to make a trilogy right from the start, perhaps it would pay to (a) sketch out the story for the entire trilogy before doing anything else and (b) hire directors who are interested in that story. This entire thing is an interesting case study in a movie studio just desperate to get stuff out to capitalize on the IP and make money without thinking about anything else.

[Ezee E]

My feelings about the entire trilogy can be summed up thusly: if you know that you are going to make a trilogy right from the start, perhaps it would pay to (a) sketch out the story for the entire trilogy before doing anything else and (b) hire directors who are interested in that story. This entire thing is an interesting case study in a movie studio just desperate to get stuff out to capitalize on the IP and make money without thinking about anything else.

Oops.

[Dukefrukem]

Why does this feel like the better story on film? It allows to give perspective of why Kylo REn was so angry in Force Awakens.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tkZ4uKqmzE