Knives Out (Rian Johnson)

[Peng]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.filmtrackonline.com/mongrelmedia/starcm_vault_root/images/%7B54f4f2ce-4b9c-e911-a987-0edcbcd33718%7D/KnivesOutBanner_%7B91dc279a-db9c-e911-a987-0edcbcd33718%7D.jpg

[Peng]

A slight disappointment relative to expectation, but still one of the mostly purely fun times at the movies this year. May be a My Problem in that I grew up on Agatha Christie (estimating conservatively I’ve read about 90% of her works), so I took the “subversion” hype about her kind of mystery too literally, and constructed a more elaborate version of story than what was presented -- I figure out the ‘how’ (if not the ‘who’) immediately during the first extended “rug pull” reveal early in the film -- when rather that subversion is in regards to the characters and politics of her mysteries instead.

Still, it’s so intricately put together and magnificently edited for maximum character/plot reveal momentum, with a killer ensemble cast of colorful detectives, a family of unseemly, even venomously money-grabbing characters on both sides of the political line, and a deep heart-and-soul of the film in Ana de Armas. The sign of a great mystery story is that even when the mystery doesn’t wholly work for you, the surface story still draws you in intimately. De Armas as the fearful eye of the storm keeps you invested closely, so that her tangent as the film’s throughline of class and political consciousness, as potent as it is, is secondary to her as a full, lived-in person. 8/10


To put it in Christie term: not the gobsmacking subversion of a Roger Ackroyd or Curtains or And Then There Were None that I unfairly expected, but it's still a delectably intricate and high-caliber mystery in the Cards on the Table/Five Little Pigs vein, with the added richness of being slyly and even touchingly updated to present day.

[Pop Trash]

It's good but mighty overrated. Throw it on a pile with Booksmart and Jojo Rabbit for 2k19 movies whose praise I do not get (although even Jojo Rabbit is mixed among critics; audiences seem to love it tho).

I'm seriously not convinced it is wildly better than other recent arch, self-aware comedy / mysteries. I'd rank it above the 2k17 Murder on the Orient Express (eh) but below A Simple Favor (underrated) and Game Night (great).

There's something self-satisfied while not being as smart as it seems to think it is that rubs me the wrong way. It doesn't help that all the characters are more caricatures (probably by design, but still). Angelic immigrant nurse, asshole rich kid sons, etc.

The plot isn't as twisty as I expected. I kinda thought Blanc at the end would reveal that Marta (the nurse) killed the patriarch on accident, but covered up for her and implicated the grandson (or was Chris Evans just a son?) since he couldn't stand the family of rich assholes and wanted her to keep the money and house ... but no it's BIG SHOCKER the rich asshole kid that did it all along. Yawn.

Some of the behavior and situations are a little suspect too. Would somebody really slit their own throat? Like "whoops I have no idea what's really going on, lemme slit my own friggin' throat to cover up for my nurse, no biggie!" And the retractable knife? Were all the knives on that knife wheel thingy retractable? They didn't look like it. So he just HAPPENS to grab the one that retracts. Hmmm. OK Rian.

[Ezee E]

This is fun for a while until it just goes off the rails in exposition. Good lord.

[Mal]

An attempt at some kind of cheeky ensemble but the goods beyond the production design aren't there, and the conclusion is overwrought and ridiculous. I also really hated how I couldn't shake that Daniel Craig sounded like Frank Underwood. Ana de Armas is great in a mostly underutilized cast. I don't think I'd bother if this was on cable to give it a second glance.

[Milky Joe]

This was a huge disappointment.

[Ezee E]

By the way....

Does anybody know why Christopher Plummer offed himself in the end? Because he thought he was going to die from the morphine that didn't take any affect??

And does the Nazi Kid ever actually serve any purpose to the movie?

[Lazlo]

By the way....

Does anybody know why Christopher Plummer offed himself in the end? Because he thought he was going to die from the morphine that didn't take any affect??

And does the Nazi Kid ever actually serve any purpose to the movie?

It's been more than a week since I saw it so I can't remember how Plummer's actions are explained, but the kid overhears part of the argument between Plummer and Evans that proves key, I believe.

[Milky Joe]

He kills himself because it's "the only way" to prevent Marta from being guilty of murder and having her family deported, he thinks

[Ezee E]

It's been more than a week since I saw it so I can't remember how Plummer's actions are explained, but the kid overhears part of the argument between Plummer and Evans that proves key, I believe.

For sure. But why make a big deal of his character then? He doesn't contribute anything otherwise.

[Ezee E]

He kills himself because it's "the only way" to prevent Marta from being guilty of murder and having her family deported, he thinks

<----

[Pop Trash]

I find the entire premise that a rich guy would be so empathetic towards his nurse that he would slit his own throat to cover up for her to be the biggest mystery of it all. I also find it very strange that someone would take a nurse's diagnosis of the situation at face value that easily (again, to the point of slitting one's own throat). My parents have been misdiagnosed multiple times by actual doctors. Not nurses. Doctors. Why someone wouldn't question the five second assessment of a stressed out nurse in that situation is beyond me.

[Ezee E]

I find the entire premise that a rich guy would be so empathetic towards his nurse that he would slit his own throat to cover up for her to be the biggest mystery of it all. I also find it very strange that someone would take a nurse's diagnosis of the situation at face value that easily (again, to the point of slitting one's own throat). My parents have been misdiagnosed multiple times by actual doctors. Not nurses. Doctors. Why someone wouldn't question the five second assessment of a stressed out nurse in that situation is beyond me.

Indeed. This movie is getting worse and worse as I think about it.

Rian Johnson has some fervent defenders, so I'll leave it to Match Cut lol.

[Milky Joe]

I thought the movie was a stinker for many reasons but I still think Rian Johnson is one of the best in Hollywood and would defend him on the basis of Looper and The Last Jedi alone (not to mention "Ozymandias" and "Fly").

I just hope his next project stays away from political messaging.

[Ezee E]

*** 1/2
Looper

***
Brick

** 1/2
Last Jedi

**
Brothers Bloom
Knives Out

[Pop Trash]

GODDAMN MASTERPIECE
The Last Jedi


[power gap]


Various films ranging from ok to good
Brick
Looper
Knives Out

Didn't see Brothers Bloom

[Peng]

5/5
"Ozymandias"

4.5/5
Brick

4/5
Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Knives Out
Looper
"Fly"
"Fifty-One"

3.5/5
The Brothers Bloom

[DavidSeven]

It’s a solid yarn. No more, no less. This is exactly the type of movie that earns a 97% on Rotten Tomatoes. Plot-driven, with safe and inconsequential content. Some silly allusions to Trump that play right to the audience. Nothing terribly interesting in terms of form, IMHO.

This type of exercise is more compelling from a first timer, like in the case of Brick, which was nevertheless more interesting from a formal standpoint. That said, it’s entertaining as all get out and a definite crowd-pleaser, so I’m guessing he accomplished what he wanted in terms of washing that Last Jedi backlash out of his mouth.

[StuSmallz]

This is exactly the type of movie that earns a 97% on Rotten Tomatoes.You mean like, Taxi Driver, Fury Road, or Alien? In that case, then yes, it is that type of movie...

:D

[transmogrifier]

Looper remains Johnson’s only good movie.

[TGM]

Looper remains Johnson’s only good movie.

Based on what I’ve seen of his (Brick, Looper, The Last Jedi), I would agree with this.

[Skitch]

Looper remains Johnson’s only good movie.

I'm surprised you didn't like Brick? Seems like a trans-y movie.

[transmogrifier]

I'm surprised you didn't like Brick? Seems like a trans-y movie.

Looper 71
Brick 52
The Brothers Bloom 51
Knives Out 49
Star Wars: The Last Jedi 45

He may well be the most boring director that the Letterboxd crew love to death. I assume his Breaking Bad episodes won him a lot of goodwill, but his writing is generally either far too clumsy and expositional (Knives Out) or just lazy dumb (TLJ), and he has little in the way of style.

[Morris Schæffer]

Really good, but explain me 2 things. The tiny blood splatter on Martha's shoe. She was feet away when Plummer slashed his throat. The knife attack by Evans. I reckon the knifes were fake ones, but we see the blade dissapearing into Martha's chest, followed by a sort of crunching sound.

[Milky Joe]

Really good, but explain me 2 things. The tiny blood splatter on Martha's shoe. She was feet away when Plummer slashed his throat. The knife attack by Evans. I reckon the knifes were fake ones, but we see the blade dissapearing into Martha's chest, followed by a sort of crunching sound.

1) I think we're just supposed to accept that a solitary drop of blood managed to get on her shoe from across the room in the instant that he cut his throat and 2) it's a call back to the line from Thrombley to Ransom that he couldn't tell a real knife from a theatrical one. the knife he grabs is fake (the blade retracts into the handle to simulate a stabbing in a play), I assume it's the one of the only knives that are fake, which makes his inability to distinguish the real from the fake all the more ironic, or maybe just the whole sculpture is fake knives

[Ezee E]

Alamo's "Be quiet" ad with Rian Johnson indirectly spoils this movie. Rian stabs his friend with one of those fake knives, and made me think that could happen in the movie. Sure enough!

[Morris Schæffer]

1) I think we're just supposed to accept that a solitary drop of blood managed to get on her shoe from across the room in the instant that he cut his throat and 2) it's a call back to the line from Thrombley to Ransom that he couldn't tell a real knife from a theatrical one. the knife he grabs is fake (the blade retracts into the handle to simulate a stabbing in a play), I assume it's the one of the only knives that are fake, which makes his inability to distinguish the real from the fake all the more ironic, or maybe just the whole sculpture is fake knives

Thanks for clarifying. That drop of blood is a real long shot, not even sure why it needed to be there, as it adds nothing. Sure, Benoit Blanc says he knew she was involved from the moment he saw her shoe, but if he's such a hotshot detective, I suppose the script would be smarter than to basically hand him the suspect on a plate. Then again, there was the dog which conveniently had a piece of the window sill in his maw, although I guess I can forgive that since moments before that, Marta threw that same piece of wood away. And what's a good doggie gonna do?

[Pop Trash]

maybe just the whole sculpture is fake knives

This kinda annoyed me. I went back and looked at stills of that knife wheel and they look like real knives on there. Like some Bowie style knives that wouldn't retract. And why would some rich guy have a cool knife wheel with only fake knives on it? Which leads me to believe he oh so conveniently grabbed the only fake one that retracts. It's a nice sight gag and gets a laugh but falls apart in my mind if you think about it for more than two seconds. Also, couldn't he now be charged with an additional count of attempted murder for his knife bit? Plus, who the hell stabs someone out of spite in front of a crowd like that? akjdlkncnvoieautoinmcv this fuggin' movie.

[Rico]

Calling this fun is giving it too much credit as most of the fun bits were in the trailer.

Would have liked to have seen the supporting cast do more.

[Ezee E]

Calling this fun is giving it too much credit as most of the fun bits were in the trailer.

Would have liked to have seen the supporting cast do more.

Def agreed on the supporting cast.

[Irish]

You all nailed it. This is a really empty movie.

Johnson is def the most overrated filmmaker around. It's weird, to me, that he lands decent budgets, writes and directs his own material, and yet his films don't say anything even remotely personal. Compare him to rough contemporaries like Waititi or Tarantino or hell even Kevin Smith --- Johnson's movies have no personality. I don't get a sense of him from watching his films.

He also has the terribly lazy habit of inserting talking point politics into his scripts and uses those points as a stand in for characters and theme.

Also, worse performances I've seen from Jaime, Don, and Jimmy Bond. They seem unmoored and, at times, like there were in a completely different movie from whatever Ana and Cap were doing.

Blech.

[[ETM]]

Johnson is def the most overrated filmmaker around.

Uh.... Umm...

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

[Ezee E]

;613154']Uh.... Umm...

Sent from my Mi 9 Lite using Tapatalk

I'm not going to disagree with him.

[transmogrifier]

I'm not going to disagree with him.

Yeah, as I alluded to earlier, the online critic crowd have really rallied around Johnson, and I have no idea why. He’s so boring. Knives Out is just....pedestrian in its staging and plot.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, as I alluded to earlier, the online critic crowd have really rallied around Johnson, and I have no idea why. He’s so boring. Knives Out is just....pedestrian in its staging and plot.

I think one of the reasons the online crowd is because he's one of the few directors that actually responds to their tweets and is pretty nice to everyone online.

[Rico]

Anyone else found it weird that in the big reveal scene half the characters seem to be just in the next room over? One of their family members was murdered and this master detective is explaining how it was done. What are they doing, having tea?

[StuSmallz]

Yeah, as I alluded to earlier, the online critic crowd have really rallied around Johnson, and I have no idea why. He’s so boring. Knives Out is just....pedestrian in its staging and plot.If a murder mystery revealing what happened to the victim less than halfway through the movie is supposed to be pedestrian plotting, I'd be real curious to see what qualifies as subversive.

[Irish]

https://i.imgur.com/eL6D72J.jpg?1

[transmogrifier]

If a murder mystery revealing what happened to the victim less than halfway through the movie is supposed to be pedestrian plotting......

Um...yes? What makes that so special? If anything, it makes the rest of the film a chore while you wait for the characters to catch up. The vomiting thing is just stupid.

[StuSmallz]

Um...yes? What makes that so special? If anything, it makes the rest of the film a chore while you wait for the characters to catch up. The vomiting thing is just stupid.It's special because, of course, it's a subversion of expectations for a work in this genre, but it's also a very clever one, and not just an empty bait-and-switch, and certainly not one that renders the rest of the film as just a waiting game, as Johnson still keeps us engaged by shifting our perspective and sympathies, and keeping the intrigue and tension up by having us follow around an innocent person attempting to cover their tracks right under the nose of the investigators (with mixed success), while at the same time diverting suspicion from the most likely suspect by appearing to reveal everything he's up to by involving us with a relatively innocuous scheme of his, while also setting up smaller mysteries bubbling just beneath the surface, ones that we're subconsciously aware of, but only really become apparent when he chooses to reveal them to us, the sure sign of a good mystery (if you're looking for a Daniel Craig murder mystery where we're mostly just waiting for the film to get around to revealing who the incredibly obvious killer is, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo is a much better fit). Knives Out, on the other hand, was relentlessly clever material, and an original mystery so tightly constructed that Robert Towne himself would've been proud to have penned it, IMO.

[transmogrifier]

Obviously, cleverness is subjective, but I found the entire mystery rote and obvious, right down to the final phone call fake out and fake knife. . I'm not sure what else to tell you; I'm glad you enjoyed it, but it was hollow, predictable, and flatly directed.

[Grouchy]

Wow, contrary to the majority here, I thought this was just a great modern take on the whodunit genre. It's fun, it's well written, it has a great cast goofing around (I'm a great supporter of Daniel Craig's accent and everything he does in this film) and it manages to turn Clue into a Columbo episode and back into the Agatha Christie murder mystery it's supposed to be a homage of. Are you guys seriously giving me shit about the fake knife thing which is perfectly foreshadowed? Or about Old Thrombey's motivations, which are just complicated enough for the type of story this is supposed to be?

I'm willing to take the bait on Rian Johnson. He's not a genius or anything but he has made some more than competent films. He's at least a better filmmaker than Christopher Nolan and J.J. Abrams combined.

[Pop Trash]

I'm willing to take the bait on Rian Johnson. He's not a genius or anything but he has made some more than competent films. He's at least a better filmmaker than Christopher Nolan and J.J. Abrams combined.

Oh HELL NAW.

[transmogrifier]

Johnson, Nolan, and Abrams? Um, you can keep all of them. What else you got out the back?

[Wryan]

Brick was great. This was good.

[Grouchy]

Oh HELL NAW.
Well, he just seems better in so many ways... Not only from an obvious writing standpoint (Johnson's movies actually present compelling characters and situations) but, while not being technically an action filmmaker, his sequences and set pieces swipe the floor with anything Nolan seems capable of doing. Nolan is just bad at putting together an action sequence.

[TGM]

I don't think I can agree with a single thing you just said, lol. :p

[MadMan]

This ruled. I loved the jokes, the cast, the whole package. I felt the movie was a bit long, though. Craig's doughtnut spiel is something I want to memorize and quote at work.

[MadMan]

Long ago I came to the conclusion that a lot of you around here must watch different movies than me. It's ok though I get that from people I know and meet in real life, too.

[Dukefrukem]

Overall, I was entertained, but this is super suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper flimsy logic and reasoning throughout. I give credit to Johnson for making it believable in real time, and it helps that the ensemble cast is on their A game, but I could pick this apart all day.

[Skitch]

This was....fine. Kudos to Johnson for banking on Ana De Armas so hard (I think shes the hottest young female actress working today in ever sense of the words). As with most murder mysteries I just dont see a lot of rewatch value once you know the full reveal.

[Skitch]

Anyone else found it weird that in the big reveal scene half the characters seem to be just in the next room over? One of their family members was murdered and this master detective is explaining how it was done. What are they doing, having tea?

You're not wrong, but to this I would say the logic of the film presented them to freak out at the will reading so I would guess the detective didnt want them around to influence Ransom as he wanted to trigger him to confess.

Not defending the film.

[Skitch]

Um...yes? What makes that so special? If anything, it makes the rest of the film a chore while you wait for the characters to catch up. The vomiting thing is just stupid.

I dont disagree with this.

[Ezee E]

This was....fine. Kudos to Johnson for banking on Ana De Armas so hard (I think shes the hottest young female actress working today in ever sense of the words). As with most murder mysteries I just dont see a lot of rewatch value once you know the full reveal.

You're in luck. She's due to be in five movies this year.

[Mr. McGibblets]

I found this exhausting. It opens up introducing the family as if it's going to be an ensemble film, but we never learn anything about them after that and most of them mostly disappear. They're to-a-person horribly drawn characters. It feels like lots of their screentime ended up cut; Riki Lindhome has like one line. Plummer is good, but a lot of the louder acting wears - especially Evans. The pacing is all off; information is just dumped on the audience when it needs to be - too much at the beginning and the end and not enough in between.

[Pop Trash]

You're in luck. She's due to be in five movies this year.

Supposedly she's in Adrian Lyne's comeback sex thriller which should add to her body of work if you get my drift.