Stephen King discussion

[Skitch]

Probably already a Stephen King thread but damned if I can find it.

I'm listening to the audiobook of The Stand uncut, and I wondered, are there any strong women in Stephen King books or is he just bad at writing women? Looking for examples.

[Dukefrukem]

Odetta Holmes is a very complex character throughout the Dark Tower books. And she undoubtedly kicks some serious ass.

But if you're listening to the Stand, you're probably troubled by the weak minded <<<SPOILER FOR 3/4 of the way in the book>>>Nadine, who double crosses her people when she is seduced by Flagg.

I should add, I hated her too, but because of how King crafted her character. I loved to hate her.

[Skitch]

The Franny chapters are weak ass writing, and now getting into more Nadine stuff, she sucks too. Just both written by a guy who seems to hate women. Whiny, weak-willed, prone to laughing fits for no reason which is super annoying...it goes on and on.

[Dukefrukem]

Oh yeh Frannie. She was a piece of work too.

[Skitch]

Crying. Always crying. Always long inner monologues about why shes crying and it makes sense or it doesn't. Then laughing and uncontrollable giggles.

[kuehnepips]

Excellent question Skitch!

[kuehnepips]

There is this little girl in the woods. ... and Misery of course

[Skitch]

I havent read or seen either. Was there a female in Hearts in Atlantis?

[Skitch]

Sorry duke, I overlooked your first paragraph. I havent read the dark tower series. This is part of the spawn of this thread, to see if hes written strong women in books I havent read.

Also i dont think I've slept 2 straight hours in 3 days, si if any one wonders why I love his novel Insomnia....jahahahahahelp

[MadMan]

Probably already a Stephen King thread but damned if I can find it.

I'm listening to the audiobook of The Stand uncut, and I wondered, are there any strong women in Stephen King books or is he just bad at writing women? Looking for examples.

Carrie White counts.

[Skitch]

Yes. Another thing I'm finding in this question is a lot of torture. It's like King cant have a strong woman unless they are brutalized first.

[MadMan]

Hmm I guess in The Stand poor Frances Goldsmith has to deal with her dad dying as she cares for him in the end.

[Peng]

The thread comes along just in time for this excellent article for a flawed but great novel: Re-reading Stephen King’s It and confronting my own personal Derry.

(https://aux.avclub.com/re-reading-stephen-king-s-it-and-confronting-my-own-per-1837817492)

[kuehnepips]

It's like King cant have a strong woman unless they are brutalized first.

It's called the GRR-Martin-Syndrome

[Grouchy]

Are you guys for real?

I miss when writing good characters was about actually writing good, interesting characterization and not checking squares to apply for a form of vomit-inducing political correctness.

[Peng]

I don't quite agree with them, but what's actually for real is writing that comment unironically lol.

[Grouchy]

I saw John Wick 3 the other day. Halle Berry's character in that is empowered to the max. She has two guardian dogs that castrate henchmen and she herself shoots at crotches and doesn't give a shit about anybody, including Wick. It's still a shit character, flatly written and without motivation.

To pick on Stephen King's women for not being "strong" is ridiculous. Just to pick one reason why, it's looking past the fact that it's King - every character is traumatized. Are you going to tell me that Jack Torrance is a role model and Wendy is a bad example because she puts up with him?

[Skitch]

No, none of that. I'm just saying every woman seems to be written by a man who actively dislikes women or who thinks "this is probably how women think, all emotions and stuff probably." I'm not looking for political correctness at all. But some examples of when he writes a strong woman, and when its hard to find much over a career thats now spanned 40+ years, thats consistent...I don't know...writing women weakly? I hesitate to say misogynistic, I don't know that its that necessarily, seems more like nerdy Harold Lauder mad at the world that he's not getting laid.

[Grouchy]

Well, what about Dolores Clairborne? Or the woman in Gerald's Game? What shocks me is that I don't think "strong" always equals a well developed character. And yeah, maybe Stephen King writes from a male nerd perspective, and maybe that's because he is a male nerd. Is that wrong?

[Skitch]

I didnt say it's wrong or that he hadn't written any strong women! I'm not an expert on the man! I was just asking for examples!

Both those women are strong. Also, both abused.

Why are you so shocked by a me asking if he has ever just written a normal woman?

[Grouchy]

Why are you so shocked by a me asking if he has ever just written a normal woman?
It just seems like the same stupid shit that's fashionable to say about everything else. Sorry, I'm being uncaracteristically agressive here and of course you don't need to be an expert on anything, it's just frustrating to me to feel like a large number of people just want storytelling to be dumber and more boring.

[Dukefrukem]

It just seems like the same stupid shit that's fashionable to say about everything else. Sorry, I'm being uncaracteristically agressive here and of course you don't need to be an expert on anything, it's just frustrating to me to feel like a large number of people just want storytelling to be dumber and more boring.

is this in reference to the Mary Sue crusade, i,e, Rey from Star Wars?

[MadMan]

Are you guys for real?

I miss when writing good characters was about actually writing good, interesting characterization and not checking squares to apply for a form of vomit-inducing political correctness.Really, dude? Really? Crying about political correctness is the last thing I expected from you.

[Pop Trash]

Really, dude? Really? Crying about political correctness is the last thing I expected from you.

It's fair. I get tired of it too, esp. when it comes to art (lit, films, stand-up, whatever) because it forces the artist to water down or change their art to fit some kind of societal paradigm.

SK is a horror writer and deals with real world horrors of abuse and abusers. I'd say some well written female characters are Carrie White, Annie in Misery, Jessie in Gerald's Game, and Dolores Claiborne. Ultimately, like a lot of male writers, I think female characters are a bit of a blindspot. This isn't really unique to SK.

[Peng]

Is there any notable artist who actually waters down or changes their art from this “vomit-inducing political correctness” who wouldn’t have done so in the first place (e.g. MC’s new favorite director Olivia Wilde). It just sounds like concern trolling (even if not intended as such) in guise of fReEdOm oF SpEeCh to me.

[Grouchy]

is this in reference to the Mary Sue crusade, i,e, Rey from Star Wars?
Actually, I thought Rey was fleshed out for the better in The Last Jedi.


Is there any notable artist who actually waters down or changes their art from this “vomit-inducing political correctness” who wouldn’t have done so in the first place (e.g. MC’s new favorite director Olivia Wilde). It just sounds like concern trolling (even if not intended as such) in guise of fReEdOm oF SpEeCh to me.
I don't have any hard evidence of this in a well known author but I know the doubt is always there. I attend a filmmaking class and we were throwing plot scenarios recently and one of them involved a woman cheating on a man and one or two students mentioned something to the effect that the woman is made to look bad in the story, as if infidelity is some kind of slander a female fictional character or a real flesh and blood woman wouldn't do. I know when I say stuff like this some of you see me as some sort of anti-women troglodyte but really, all I'm saying is that an assertive woman doesn't equal a well written character. It all depends on the context of the story you're telling. I know Margaret Atwood and Gillian Flynn have stated opinions like this before.

[StuSmallz]

15 Stephen King novels that are just screaming to be adapted (or re-adapted) (https://www.avclub.com/stephen-king-story-screen-adaptations-firestarter-dar-1848907998)

[Skitch]

My selections...

1. The Long Walk
2. Running Man (but like the book)
3. Insomnia

I want these so bad, and I want Mick Garris no where near them

If I had to pick directors....

1. Frank Darabont
2. Adam Wingard
3. Denis Vellinue (I can't spell his name right, ever)


If I had to pick actors...

1. JGL
2. Jeffery Wright
3. Gene Hackman unretires for one role and goes out with a BANG

[baby doll]

3. Denis Vellinue (I can't spell his name right, ever)Dennis New City.

[DFA1979]

My selections...

1. The Long Walk
2. Running Man (but like the book)
3. Insomnia

I want these so bad, and I want Mick Garris no where near them

If I had to pick directors....

1. Frank Darabont
2. Adam Wingard
3. Denis Vellinue (I can't spell his name right, ever)


If I had to pick actors...

1. JGL
2. Jeffery Wright
3. Gene Hackman unretires for one role and goes out with a BANG

Yes please. Especially the Long Walk.

[StuSmallz]

My selections...

1. The Long Walk
2. Running Man (but like the book)
3. Insomnia

I want these so bad, and I want Mick Garris no where near them

If I had to pick directors....

1. Frank Darabont
2. Adam Wingard
3. Denis Vellinue (I can't spell his name right, ever)


If I had to pick actors...

1. JGL
2. Jeffery Wright
3. Gene Hackman unretires for one role and goes out with a BANGYeah, I'd like to see a good adaptation of Insomnia too, since I liked the book a lot (and I have always hated that people keep calling it "boring" over the years; what the hell?), and Villeneuve would probably be a good choice for it, based off his more recent work in Hollywood, and the way he can mix larger scopes with a fairly foreboding, menacing atmosphere.

[Skitch]

Yeah, I'd like to see a good adaptation of Insomnia too, since I liked the book a lot (and I have always hated that people keep calling it "boring" over the years; what the hell?), and Villeneuve would probably be a good choice for it, based off his more recent work in Hollywood, and the way he can mix larger scopes with a fairly foreboding, menacing atmosphere.

I always assumed the people that called it boring slept 8-10 hours a night without missing a beat.